King Hyperion vs Exiles Surfer

Originally posted by Photon009
No, you dont have to ignore Supes' high end feats. But you have to average all his feats out, from his bad ones to his good ones.

Originally posted by Photon009
And in this specific instance, yes, they are analagous feats. Sure, beating the Fantastic Five isnt as impressive as getting the better of 2 Hyperions, but the way he did it, how easily and everything, you could tell he was on the same level when he beat the F5 as he was when he fought the Hyperions. Take into consideration how easily he did it, that he obviously was holding back, and that he literally reduced the Thing to a forearm and gravel. The fact of how easily he did it, and everything else fo that matter, compared to how getting the better of 2 Hyperions was pretty tough for him, etc it's pretty obvious that he was always on the same level.

You said yourself it wasn't impressive what Exiles Surfer did to that version of Gladiator (and I agree) so why the hell would it be impressive what Hyperion did?

I don't get it.

Superman has better strength feats than Hyperion. Fact.

Superman has better speed feats than Hyperion. Fact.

Superman has better durability feats than Hyperion. Fact.

Superman has better combat feats than Hyperion. Fact.

Yet, King Hyperion is more powerful than Superman and you'd HAVE to be fucking retarded to think otherwise? Doesn't fly.

Originally posted by Photon009
It was shown what would happen in a h2h fight, without Thor using Mjolnir for those long range attacks. So yes it is valid in showing that Hyperion is physically superior to Thor. Thor having Mjolnir has nothing to do with being physically superior, it would just help him win thanks to versatility and long range attacks, but to determine whose physically superior, yes thats the best way is to have them fight h2h, which is what they did, where Hyperion was shown superior.

And no he wasnt what?

He wasn't shown superior in the first fight.

Originally posted by Photon009
No, you dont have to ignore Supes' high end feats. But you have to average all his feats out, from his bad ones to his good ones.

And in this specific instance, yes, they are analagous feats. Sure, beating the Fantastic Five isnt as impressive as getting the better of 2 Hyperions, but the way he did it, how easily and everything, you could tell he was on the same level when he beat the F5 as he was when he fought the Hyperions. Take into consideration how easily he did it, that he obviously was holding back, and that he literally reduced the Thing to a forearm and gravel. The fact of how easily he did it, and everything else fo that matter, compared to how getting the better of 2 Hyperions was pretty tough for him, etc it's pretty obvious that he was always on the same level.

Ahh Genis.

Superman has so many good feats, that his average is kinda good.

Originally posted by Val
Superman's average is being the most powerful and all around effective superhero in the DC universe. I would say that makes him a powerful mother f[b]ucker. Certainly more powerful than Hyperion.

They aren't analogous. One is a good feat. One is mediocre and not worthy of top tier status.

You said yourself it wasn't impressive what Exiles Surfer did to that version of Gladiator (and I agree) so why the hell would it be impressive what Hyperion did?

I don't get it.

Superman has better strength feats than Hyperion. Fact.

Superman has better speed feats than Hyperion. Fact.

Superman has better durability feats than Hyperion. Fact.

Superman has better combat feats than Hyperion. Fact.

Yet, King Hyperion is more powerful than Superman and you'd HAVE to be fucking retarded to think otherwise? Doesn't fly. [/B]

You're an idiot Ion. Im sorry to say that, but you just dont get the averages thing. Im sorry but im done arguing with you until you learn. I'll try to explain it one more time. Yes, Superman has more good feats than Hyperion. But he also has more bad feats, considering thats what happens when you have as many appearances as Superman. So when you average that out, Hyperion and Superman are equals, especially when you consider Hyperion doesnt really have an bad feats, and in direct confrontatiosn with Thor and Gladiator, he's shown physically superior to Thor, and equal to Gladiator (whose also equal to Thor). When it comes to Averages, Hyperion = Gladiator = Superman in physical stats. And King Hyperion was beating the shit out of 2 Hyperions. Meaning he would most likely do the same thing to 2 Supermen, much less just one.

And for the last time, King Hyperion was always shown at the same level of power. His stock was never raised for a couple pages so he could perform some massive feat like what happens to Superman. King Hyperion was always at those high end, 2 Hyperion-fighting levels. And that's a fact.

He punched him twice.

He wasn't shown superior in the first fight.

Did you read? Doctor Spectrum knew it, Hyperion knew it, and even Wonder Man admited that Hyperion was going to put Thor down soon, and that's why Wonder Man had to do something about it and get involved with the Hyperion/Thor fight. That was pretty clear.

And he was shown clearly superior to Thor in their first fight. He came up from the ground, uppercutted Thor sending Thor flying. Thor threw Mjolnir at him, and it didnt even faze him, just bounced off his chest. Hyperion then flew after Thor again, and knocked him down hurting Thor again. Thor got up, then Hyperion used heat vision, which Thor absorbed using Mjolnir, and then used some manipulation tricks to shrink Hyperion. Hyperion was clearly superior physically. And something else to note is that that was the evil Hyperion, whose slightly inferior to the good one.

Originally posted by Photon009
Did you read? Doctor Spectrum knew it, Hyperion knew it, and even Wonder Man admited that Hyperion was going to put Thor down soon, and that's why Wonder Man had to do something about it and get involved with the Hyperion/Thor fight. That was pretty clear.

And he was shown clearly superior to Thor in their first fight. He came up from the ground, uppercutted Thor sending Thor flying. Thor threw Mjolnir at him, and it didnt even faze him, just bounced off his chest. Hyperion then flew after Thor again, and knocked him down hurting Thor again. Thor got up, then Hyperion used heat vision, which Thor absorbed using Mjolnir, and then used some manipulation tricks to shrink Hyperion. Hyperion was clearly superior physically.

Also, I like how Hyperion, Wonderman, and Dr Spectrum all know Thor's strength and durability to a T. 🙂

He cheapshotted Thor, yes. 🙂
Also, Thor looked like he was holding back, and even with your description, it still doesn't make him superior to Thor.
It didn't progress enough to find out who was superior to the other (although Thor won).

Originally posted by Photon009
You're an idiot Ion. Im sorry to say that, but you just dont get the averages thing. Im sorry but im done arguing with you until you learn. I'll try to explain it one more time. Yes, Superman has more good feats than Hyperion. But he also has more bad feats, considering thats what happens when you have as many appearances as Superman. So when you average that out, Hyperion and Superman are equals, especially when you consider Hyperion doesnt really have an bad feats, and in direct confrontatiosn with Thor and Gladiator, he's shown physically superior to Thor, and equal to Gladiator (whose also equal to Thor). When it comes to Averages, Hyperion = Gladiator = Superman in physical stats. And King Hyperion was beating the shit out of 2 Hyperions. Meaning he would most likely do the same thing to 2 Supermen, much less just one.

And for the last time, King Hyperion was always shown at the same level of power. His stock was never raised for a couple pages so he could perform some massive feat like what happens to Superman. King Hyperion was always at those high end, 2 Hyperion-fighting levels. And that's a fact.

Did you read? Doctor Spectrum knew it, Hyperion knew it, and even Wonder Man admited that Hyperion was going to put Thor down soon, and that's why Wonder Man had to do something about it and get involved with the Hyperion/Thor fight. That was pretty clear.

And he was shown clearly superior to Thor in their first fight. He came up from the ground, uppercutted Thor sending Thor flying. Thor threw Mjolnir at him, and it didnt even faze him, just bounced off his chest. Hyperion then flew after Thor again, and knocked him down hurting Thor again. Thor got up, then Hyperion used heat vision, which Thor absorbed using Mjolnir, and then used some manipulation tricks to shrink Hyperion. Hyperion was clearly superior physically. And something else to note is that that was the evil Hyperion, whose slightly inferior to the good one.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Doesn't change that he only punched him twice.

Also, I like how Hyperion, Wonderman, and Dr Spectrum all know Thor's strength and durability to a T. 🙂

He cheapshotted Thor, yes. 🙂
Also, Thor looked like he was holding back, and even with your description, it still doesn't make him superior to Thor.
It didn't progress enough to find out who was superior to the other (although Thor won).

Yes, it does change it. Hyperion, Spectrum, and Wondy all knew Thor was gonna go down soon. It's pretty obvious that that's what was gonna happen too, and Thor probably knows it himself considering how thankful he was when Wondy stepped in. Thor doesnt even seem to have a chance physically, he's only been SEEN hit twice, but it looks like he's been getting the shit beaten out of him.

Hyperion was looking superior in the physical battle, and Thor looked superior in the overall battle, thanks to his long range attacks and versatility giving him the advantage. Plus that was a slightly weaker Hyperion. Hyperion is obviously physically superior to Thor.

Originally posted by Photon009
You're an idiot Ion. Im sorry to say that, but you just dont get the averages thing. Im sorry but im done arguing with you until you learn. I'll try to explain it one more time. Yes, Superman has more good feats than Hyperion. But he also has more bad feats, considering thats what happens when you have as many appearances as Superman. So when you average that out, Hyperion and Superman are equals, especially when you consider Hyperion doesnt really have an bad feats, and in direct confrontatiosn with Thor and Gladiator, he's shown physically superior to Thor, and equal to Gladiator (whose also equal to Thor). When it comes to Averages, Hyperion = Gladiator = Superman.

And for the last time, King Hyperion was always shown at the same level of power. His stock was never raised for a couple pages so he could perform some massive feat like what happens to Superman. King Hyperion was always at those high end, 2 Hyperion-fighting levels. And that's a fact.

You want to talk average? Lets talk average.

In one storyline, Superman takes on a warship made of Kryptonite strong enough to level planets. Superman defeats said Warship.

In the next storyline, Superman flies multiple lightyears under 3 hours, takes every energy attack a Sun Eater can dish out and ends up triumphing over said Sun Eater.

In the next storyline, Superman's weakened, half dead body falling down to Earth causes the near extinction of Earth's population. This weakened Superman took part in a one on one battle that shakes the planet.

In the next storyline, we see a Superman who appears to have gone insane being greeted by the JLA/JSA because apparently none of them want to face an insane Superman one on one.

In the next storyline, it takes a multitude of different superheroes to try and restrain Superman who end up failing anyway. Superman goes on to one shot Despero.

Let's not even get into the Darkseid ass beatings.

All these storylines happen within 12-24 issues of each other. Superman shits on the average of Hyperion and you're a moron to think otherwise.

Superman's average > Hyperion's average

Superman's best > Hyperion's best

Deal with it.

Originally posted by Photon009
Yes, it does change it. Hyperion, Spectrum, and Wondy all knew Thor was gonna go down soon. It's pretty obvious that that's what was gonna happen too, and Thor probably knows it himself considering how thankful he was when Wondy stepped in. Thor doesnt even seem to have a chance physically, he's only been SEEN hit twice, but it looks like he's been getting the shit beaten out of him.

Hyperion was looking superior in the physical battle, and Thor looked superior in the overall battle, thanks to his long range attacks and versatility giving him the advantage. Plus that was a slightly weaker Hyperion. Hyperion is obviously physically superior to Thor.

Thor didn't even try and go physical with him. 😐 Hell, even in the fight you're twisting, he didn't even throw a punch.

And when Hyperion actually beats Thor in a clear physical contest, I'll gladly agree.

Also, let's not forget that Thor fights better when he's mad.

Originally posted by Val
Don't resort to pettiness. I'm not the one contradicting myself on every page.

You want to talk average? Lets talk average.

In one storyline, Superman takes on a warship made of Kryptonite strong enough to level planets. Superman defeats said Warship.

In the next storyline, Superman flies multiple lightyears under 3 hours, takes every energy attack a Sun Eater can dish out and ends up triumphing over said Sun Eater.

In the next storyline, Superman's weakened, half dead body falling down to Earth causes the near extinction of Earth's population. This weakened Superman took part in a one on one battle that shakes the planet.

In the next storyline, we see a Superman who appears to have gone insane being greeted by the JLA/JSA because apparently none of them want to face an insane Superman one on one.

In the next storyline, it takes a multitude of different superheroes to try and restrain Superman who end up failing anyway. Superman goes on to one shot Despero.

Let's not even get into the Darkseid ass beatings.

All these storylines happen within 12-24 issues of each other. Superman shits on the average of Hyperion and you're a moron to think otherwise.

So 12 issues out of what? How many issues has Superman been in? I'll tell you. THOUSANDS. Even say he's only been in 1000, (which is far less than what he's actually been in) 12 issues are 1.2% of his average then. Yea, that means SO much. Now, one last time, in averages, Hyperion, Gladiator, and Superman are all roughly equals. In direct confrontation it's shown that, as Hyperion has completely stalemated Gladiator in durability, strength, heat vision, and combat speed, and has been shown physically superior to Wondy at his best, as well as Thor himself.

-Superman's highest are superior to Hyperion's highest yes.
-But Superman's lowest are also alot lower than Hyperion's lowest.
-And thanks to having so many appearances, Superman has alot more "meh" average showings, as well as lows.
-Overall Superman's average is roughly equal to Hyperion's.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
He looked pretty fresh.
It looks like he got hit twice is what it looked like armo.

Thor didn't even try and go physical with him. 😐 Hell, even in the fight you're twisting, he didn't even throw a punch.

And when Hyperion actually beats Thor in a clear physical contest, I'll gladly agree.

Also, let's not forget that Thor fights better when he's mad.

Thor looked fresh? No. Thor was getting the shit beat out of him. Thor wasnt even attempting to fight Hyperion? That's funny, because on the first page of that fight Thor is saying how he's angry and wants to beat the hell out of Hyperion, etc. It's also funny how Thor is just letting Hyperion hit him because he doesnt wanna fight. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Thor was flatout getting the shit beat out of him in a physical contest, and everyone, Hyperion, Wondy, Spectrum, even Thor himself, knew it. And Thor WAS mad. Hyperion > Thor physically: FACT.

Originally posted by Photon009
So 12 issues out of what? How many issues has Superman been in? I'll tell you. THOUSANDS. Even say he's only been in 1000, (which is far less than what he's actually been in) 12 issues are 1.2% of his average then. Yea, that means SO much. Now, one last time, in averages, Hyperion, Gladiator, and Superman are all roughly equals. In direct confrontation it's shown that, as Hyperion has completely stalemated Gladiator in durability, strength, heat vision, and combat speed, and has been shown physically superior to Wondy at his best, as well as Thor himself.

-Superman's highest are superior to Hyperion's highest yes.
-But Superman's lowest are also alot lower than Hyperion's lowest.
-And thanks to having so many appearances, Superman has alot more "meh" average showings.
-Overall Superman's average is roughly equal to Hyperion's.

The number of people Hyperion has beaten on Superman's level can likely be counted on 1 hand. Hell, you could probably count it with no hands.

He's didn't Thor.

Gladiator embarrassed him so bad he resorted to hair pulling.

Hulk whooped Hyperion.

Everytime the guy comes up against a real measuring stick, he gets worked. Yet he's just as powerful as THE superhero measuring stick.

Originally posted by Val
In other words, you have no argument and would rather feebly attempt to discredit a character until your face turns blue. You could said that on Page 1 and saved me the time.

The number of people Hyperion has beaten on Superman's level can likely be counted on 1 hand. Hell, you could probably count it with no hands.

He's didn't Thor.

Gladiator embarrassed him so bad he resorted to hair pulling.

Hulk whooped Hyperion.

Everytime the guy comes up against a real measuring stick, he gets worked. Yet he's just as powerful as THE superhero measuring stick.

He never gets worked. He rarely beats big names, because he's not a major character in Marvel. Superman's THE major character for DC. But when you compare averages, they are roughly equals whether you want to admit it or not.

He may not have ever beaten Thor, but he's been shown superior on more than one occasion and only lost through a trick on one fo the 3 occasions. The other 2 occasions he was winning before it was interrupted.

Gladiator didnt embarass him. They were COMPLETELY EVEN in strength, combat speed, heat vision, and durability, and Gladiator only won because he had superior fighting skills, which allowed him to get Hyperion into that position where Gladiator had the advantage.

Hyperion has stalemated the Hulk on both occasions. The first time it was interrupted and they were shown even, and the second time they were going back and forth, with Hyperion actually showing to be slightly superior until the Hulk thunderclaps, messing up Hyperion bad thanks to his good hearing.

Hyperion's average = Superman's average. It's a fact whether you like it or not. Superman, and all of DC for that matter is just extremely overrated on this board.

He wont admit to something thats wrong.

Superman has planet moving feats. Hyperion has feats where he struggles to move satellites on his own.

Originally posted by B.A
He wont admit to something thats wrong.

Superman has planet moving feats. Hyperion has feats where he struggles to move satellites on his own.

Yea, comparing a low feat of Hyperion's and a big one of Superman's is really fair. How bout saying Superman needed Wonder Woman's help moving the moon, or got KOed from an exploding gas station, or getting taken out from one blast from GL John, compared to Hyperion plowing Wonder Man through a planet, or exerting planet-crushing force in his fight with Gladiator or shaking the planet in his fight with his evil counterpart Hyperion.

Originally posted by Photon009
Thor looked fresh? No. Thor was getting the shit beat out of him. Thor wasnt even attempting to fight Hyperion? That's funny, because on the first page of that fight Thor is saying how he's angry and wants to beat the hell out of Hyperion, etc. It's also funny how Thor is just letting Hyperion hit him because he doesnt wanna fight. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Thor was flatout getting the shit beat out of him in a physical contest, and everyone, Hyperion, Wondy, Spectrum, even Thor himself, knew it. And Thor WAS mad. Hyperion > Thor physically: FACT.

He got hit twice. He didn't look like he was trying to fight back. However, he only got hit twice. 🙂
So it's not wrong to say that Thor wouldn't have thrown a couple punches if it was actually a long fight.

That's nice.

Also, I like how Hyperion himself states that Thor couldn't hit him, but he could hit Thor because he could fly (however wrong that is, but Hyperion stated it). 🙂

Purely physical? Not at all.
Also, Thor looked surprised rather than angry when his hammer was stolen away. Which probably dropped his confidence, and his anger.

Originally posted by Photon009
Superman, and all of DC for that matter is just extremely overrated on this board.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
The page after, Thor was pretty fresh. 🙂 He was perfectly fine actually.

He got hit twice. He didn't look like he was trying to fight back. However, he only got hit twice. 🙂
So it's not wrong to say that Thor wouldn't have thrown a couple punches if it was actually a long fight.

That's nice.

Also, I like how Hyperion himself states that Thor couldn't hit him, but he could hit Thor because he could fly (however wrong that is, but Hyperion stated it). 🙂

Purely physical? Not at all.
Also, Thor looked surprised rather than angry when his hammer was stolen away. Which probably dropped his confidence, and his anger.

Hyperion looked physically superior to Thor, it's that simple. We only saw him hit Thor twice, but it's obvious he hit Thor more than that. I mean, Thor was getting the shit beat out of him, and for the last ****ing time, everyone, including Thor, knew he was done for against Hyperion h2h. And he was pissed off, and then may have looked suprised when Mjolnir was taken away because he knew he was screwed physically. The fact of the matter is, if the fight went on, Thor couldve at best lasted another couple pages before being knocked the hell out. That was clearly shown.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Wow. That kind of takes away any point you have on that subject doesn't it? I mean, you're showing extreme bias
Genis (Armo, or whatever you want to be called).

No, im showing it evenly. Everyone else thinks im showing it biased to Marvel because most of, if not all of you are very DC biased.

Originally posted by Photon009
He never gets worked. He rarely beats big names, because he's not a major character in Marvel. Superman's THE major character for DC. But when you compare averages, they are roughly equals whether you want to admit it or not.

He may not have ever beaten Thor, but he's been shown superior on more than one occasion and only lost through a trick on one fo the 3 occasions. The other 2 occasions he was winning before it was interrupted.

Gladiator didnt embarass him. They were COMPLETELY EVEN in strength, combat speed, heat vision, and durability, and Gladiator only won because he had superior fighting skills, which allowed him to get Hyperion into that position where Gladiator had the advantage.

Hyperion has stalemated the Hulk on both occasions. The first time it was interrupted and they were shown even, and the second time they were going back and forth, with Hyperion actually showing to be slightly superior until the Hulk thunderclaps, messing up Hyperion bad thanks to his good hearing.

Hyperion's average = Superman's average. It's a fact whether you like it or not. Superman, and all of DC for that matter is just extremely overrated on this board.

This is a broken argument where you like it or not.