Darth Sion vs Darth Sidious

Started by Ultra Omega11 pages
LMAO. This is a great feat. Because the only thing that threatens their life is he himself.

Quit laughing your ass of; what threatens their life would be the atmosphere from the outside that wouldn't be contained given the huge gaps within the walls and ceiling of the ship.

Obviously you managed to forget the "cut" in front of the "content" when you posted this sentence. In short: It doesn't matter what happens in some cut content as this is cut. Removed from continuity. Not existing in it.

It was cut due to time restraints, not any change in decision behind the concepts of the characters, meaning while out of continuity, what we see of the characters best fit in with the Game Developer's vision. Nice try, however.

And aside of that little fact: The lightning that his shown appears to be some visible hint that Nihilus' attack is different from a regular force drain.

You're referring to the orange energy, yes? Because, that was the force drain; the lightning was just regular force lightning that Nihilus was using along with the drain and telekinesis.

And yes, I know that Nihilus' drain, aka the greatest of all Sith teachings, is more than just a simple force drain. Your point would be what? To tell me something I already know?

Because it obviously doesn't affect anything specially (the lightning even extends to all sides - the officers standing right behind Sion don't seem to care).

I really fail to see what point you're trying to make here. Be clear.

And using TK and a second force technique also isn't that impressive.

Quit downplaying what Nihilus was doing. He was using three techniques offensively, not two, and all whilst keeping his crew alive and holding his ship together. If that's not a phenomenal display of force mastery, I don't know what is.

Dooku for example was capable of lifting Obi-Wan (TK) while delivering a force aided kick in the direction of Anakin (which certainly required the use of precognition as well as some force-boost in the strength department). So what?

LMAO. Firstly, precognition is a passive ability. It's always in effect. Secondly, Dooku's display of mastery is clearly not comparing with Nihilus', as explained above.

Right. Using a technique that Kreia had no defence against. This is like praising somebody for being capable of shooting a stationary target (like a freaking skyscraper) from a distance of two metres. Kreia's force mastery didn't play any role here.

Nihilus used TK to overpower Traya. Not his force connection sever ability. That ability, clearly manifests as orange energy. In the past, I've liked to view this as visual inconsistencies, but the fact remains that nothing suggests that there's anything more to it than what's shown.

Yeah. Now what? It took two grandchildren of the force combining their powers to overcome DE Sidious.

LOL. Firstly, one of the mentioned "grandchildren of the force" was barely trained, and secondly, they did more than just overcome Sidious; they turned his Force Storm back onto him. Simply overpowering Sidious himself wouldn't require as much power as turning his Focre storm back onto him. Force Storm >> Sidious.

I think the Exile and Visas don't compare to Leia and Luke.

What you think means little. Visas had a special kind of bond with Nihilus, meaning hurting her likely would have had a bad effect on Nihilus anyway, and the Exile was clearly a powerhouse, given how she possessed a force connection augmented by the hundreds that she had killed, and how she is displayed as being quite the combat prodigy.

Third. Nobody cares about excuses.

Excuses? Labelling what essentially proves that Nihilus was severely handicapped as excuses is all fine and dandy, but as far as arguments go, it doesn't qualify as a successful counter.

He also was holding his ship together and didn't feat on any big source of energy before he did destroy the Miraluka's homeworld. He can do that but under the same circumstances isn't able to defeat his own apprentice, a non-force-user (Mandalore !) and some person who did just regain her force abilities some weaks before the confrontation? Visas and Mandalore - at the very least - shouldn't have survived this confrontation if Nihilus was as powerful as you think he was.

Same circumstances? He had actually been further weakened, to such a degree, when feeding on the wound in the force that is the Exile, that he literally screamed out in agony. Clearly the circumstances weren't even anywhere near the same as they had been.

For about 2 seconds.

For as long as it was required... They remained stunned until he decided to feed on the Exile.

Malak managed to stun Bastilla, Revan and Carth without much effort. Must be a force god. Wait.

Nice Strawman. The stunning action itself isn't what's great about the feat, it's that he was able to do so despite his handicaps, as well as to highlight the fact that the technique is in his arsenal, and that he has no problems with focusing his offensive abilities on people.

Exar Kun managed to stun several thousand beings without any effort. Shocking.

Last time I checked, Exar wasn't severely weakened at the time.

*Yawn*

Well, I know my arguments are incredibly hard to respond to, and I'm sure you would be getting tiring, but if you're gonna yawn, at least cover your mouth.

DE Sidious would have killed the trio before the fight would even have started.

At least Visas and Mandalore would have met an unpleasant end in the first seconds of the fight.

When nowhere near his full level of power, and performing usages of the force that rival his best? I'm gonna say no.

And you are this forum's very own version of a pathetic idiot.

Coming from the person who attempts to argue Mace's superiority over Vader with some A>B>C level logic, whilst arguing off of a nonsensical figure in a completely linear fashion. Yeah, I'd say you're the idiot.

Oh my. Sidious had his body varporized in the reactor of his second Death Star and still managed to survived - in form of a spirit. Quite more impressive then keeping your spirit in your armor.

What... the... fvck?

Comparing the manner in which Sidious died to what Nihilus was able to do with his spirit after dying is as absurd as comparisons come.

Point is, after physical death, Nihilus was immediately able to enter a non sentient host. Nothing says he wouldn't be able to do it again.

Sidious, on the other hand, after losing his physical body, had to roam the Galaxy for years as a Spirit before entering a host.

I think it's clear who has who beat here, not that a comparison was in any way necessary.

And wounds in the force can be sensed. Quite well even, if I may at that. The wound in the force caused by the destruction of the second Death Star almost knocked Leia out when she did visit Endor for the next time.

LMAO. Apparently you don't quite understand the difference between disturbances in the force, and wounds in the force.

Wounds in the force are simply areas where the force is fractured; incomplete. They can't be sensed, as shown when the Jedi claim that they can't sense the Exile in the force after she returned from the Mandalorian Wars (in the hologram where she's officially exiled).

A disturbance in the force is simply a ripple in the force caused by a major event.

Two entirely different concepts which only someone like you would get confused about.

This totally compares to all that Sidious had. Let me see: All holocrons that were stored in the Jedi Temple (he got access past RotS), several holocrons he gathered before and after (e.g. that of Vodo). The knowledge created by Bane's Order in thousand years (again originating partitially from Bane's holocron). At the force knowledge of different sects of force using cultists (e.g. the Falanassi). Really...but Nihilus had an entire holocron? Wow.

For the idiots who didn't quite get the purpose behind this par of my post:

And lastly, for the morons who'll claim that his knowledge of Sith Magic was limited to what he displays, he possessed an entire Holocron full of Sith knowledge.

I've noticed that major league dumbasses like Darth Sexy will claim that Nihilus' knowledge is limited to what he displays; I was simply proving that incredibly moronic view wrong.

Luke would kick his sorry ass across the place

I would probably disagree, but the wealth of proof you just provided has me totally convinced. Oh wait!

and so would DE Sidious.

No, he wouldn't. Sidious, at best, kills hundreds of stormtroopers with force lightning, and clouds the darkside from an unsuspecting Jedi Order.

Nihilus was able to achieve a feat a thousand times greater than anything Sidious has done when not at his full level of power, whilst using the force in excess for other actions simultaneously, and it didn;t require much time or effort.

And he's so untouchable that his own apprentice, a non-force-user and the Exile did not only touch but kill him. Indeed Godlike.

Laughable.

No, what's laughable is you ignoring the sheer degree of how much weaker he was at the time then when he would be at full power, and the insane degree of force usage he was exerting through different means, by simply labelling them "excuses."

Now, come back when you can form a proper defence and effectively argue your case.

Keep embarassing yourself Noobaris.

Originally posted by Borbarad

Well. The comment about "lifting" something does only apply to the Ravager and nothing else. He might have lifted the ship from Malachor V (Star Destroyers can take up to 20 Million G without suffering hull damage - just for your information). Still...who cares? Vader's apprentice was capable of tearing an ISD apart completely with TK - keeping it together should be an easier task. Especially considering that there wasn't so much to hold together at all...but well.

Yes but the sith warships arent as powerful or as hard as stay destroyers, if it were to end up on malachors surface it would have crashed there in the first place due to the MSG and when that happens very large parts of the ship would get damaged, namely the hull.

Im very sure the most of the ravagers hull damage was due to crash landing in the gravity well when

Sion unable to be drained by Nihilus in the cut-content is a touchy subject that also can't be considered canon due to that many technical issues behind the scenes. But it basically comes down to the original problem of the game itself; it wasn't 100% finished. Let me break it down for you:

The original scene was that Obsidian was going to have Nihilus feed on Sion and in turn kill him right then and there. And at the end when you can hear Kreia's voice telling of how the darkness now comes, is a reference to Nihilus absorbing Sion's forces into his own and being the last dark lord in power to do what he wants, which could possibly be a full-scale invasion of the galaxy. However they reached their deadline too soon and were unable to complete the game, so like many other things about KotOR II, this entire story-changing plotline was cut from the game.

This would also tie into the Kreia as Atris ending, but this is where the second problem comes in; the restored-content mod. What happened there is that because there were too many pieces missing, they simply could not restore it properly, meaning they couldn't exclude Sion where he was originally supposed to die. So the creators of the restored content mod had no choice but to modify the scene and have Sion limp off of Nihilus' bridge, beaten.

TLDR; In all technicality, it is not a canon scene. It was cut due to publisher/developer issues and modified by the creators of the restored content mod.

If you want to consider it a real scene in your own personal interpretation of the KotOR II storyline, then I suppose you could picture it as Nihilus was toying with Sion. Bringing him to the edge of death to show him how weak he is in comparison to him and letting him live with his pride and will shattered. It makes for an interesting take on the story, possibly a crack in Sion's mental walls allowing the Exile to erode his will further in order to defeat him. But that's up to you, I suppose. I'm sticking with what was given to us.

You certainly pick and choose what you think is canon or not, that's for sure.

Regardless of Sion's power in regard to Nihilius, it remains the case Sidious can solo both of them combined with room to spare.

Sidious schools him, he's a glorified zombie Savage.

bump

"Darkly he proclaimed 'I am Sion, Lord of Pain and Lord of the Sith and you cannot kill me.' instead of exchanging words with the abomination before her, she simply attempted to cut the beast off from the Force but she realised this monster had become the Dark Side and such techniques would not work. Ziost was their battleground, time and again she would cut him down and once more he would rise anew. Aided by his minions the fight lasted three nights, despite the freezing temperatures and the well of darkness swirling through the collapsing fortresses, she would cut down more and more Dark Jedi until finally when Sion realised this engagement was one he could not win, he fled and no matter how much she chased him he would not be found again." - Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide Collector's Edition

sion stomps

Originally posted by Lord GOAT
sion stomps

Hasn't that quote been proven to be faked? I seem to remember a discussion over trying to find evidence of the source's quote, and no such collector's edition seems to exist

Originally posted by Underachiever59
Hasn't that quote been proven to be faked? I seem to remember a discussion over trying to find evidence of the source's quote, and no such collector's edition seems to exist

yeah i know

😂

Sion is immortal 🙂