Originally posted by King_Mungi
Handbooks list him at class 10, but in comics he has bested Namorita who is above class 10How are most even going to hurt Puck anyways?
Thats why I said if sabertooth had adamtium this would a clear win for team too.
Sabertooth with adamtium clearly would take puck the majority.
how does besting Namorita make him above class 10? it one feat. It not enough solid evidence to put his strength beyond what it been stated.
not that it would matter. since having class 10 to 50 ton strength would make no differences when fighting sabertooth.
also pukc beat a clone. The clones are never as good and msot every ones clone was getting stomped down.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Thats why I said if sabertooth had adamtium this would a clear win for team too.Sabertooth with adamtium clearly would take puck the majority.
how does besting Namorita make him above class 10? it one feat. It not enough solid evidence to put his strength beyond what it been stated.
not that it would matter. since having class 10 to 50 ton strength would make no differences when fighting sabertooth.
also pukc beat a clone. The clones are never as good and msot every ones clone was getting stomped down.
Clearly would take the majority? Definetly be a hard fight, especially with Puck's speed and experience. No way is Sabretooth going to walk over Puck..No way
No, but it also adds with Puck's blows hurting the likes of Sasquatch, Mauler's gang [Iron Man foes], Wendigo level beings, etc.
Incorrect, they were stated to be the exact same level of skill and power as their real counterpart. As the clones of Hawkeye, Mr.Fantastic and Iron Man beat their real versions in a straight up fight.
Originally posted by Galan007
Karnak vs. Iron Fist = droolio
If you're a huge fan of Iron Fist, I suppose so. Karnak's too slow to be a real threat.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Clearly would take the majority? Definetly be a hard fight, especially with Puck's speed and experience. No way is Sabretooth going to walk over Puck..No way
Hard fight? Doubtful. It may be a lengthy one, but Sabretooth is easily as fast, as durable, and as experienced. Sabretooth also has the damage output advantage with adamantium.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Length fight equals a hard fight.Durable & experience definetly, but speed? doubtful.
Speed? Doubtful? I don't see Puck pulling off a speed feat that Sabretooth can't replicate. Agility - sure - speed? Not quite.
And the length of a fight doesn't indicate difficulty - take Spiderman vs. Wolverine in a melee confrontation for example. I, personally, see Spiderman bouncing around on the defensive for quite a while but eventually tiring and getting poked for a clear majority.
Or, maybe, Thanos versus Odin. He clearly lasted a while, but he never had a hope of actually winning.
Originally posted by Soljer
Speed? Doubtful? I don't see Puck pulling off a speed feat that Sabretooth can't replicate. Agility - sure - speed? Not quite.And the length of a fight doesn't indicate difficulty - take Spiderman vs. Wolverine in a melee confrontation for example. I, personally, see Spiderman bouncing around on the defensive for quite a while but eventually tiring and getting poked for a clear majority.
Or, maybe, Thanos versus Odin. He clearly lasted a while, but he never had a hope of actually winning.
Errrr? Puck is said to have Spider-Man level speed and reflexes. In comics it has even shown him playing multiple combat scenarios literally in a split second and he picks the right one and reacts in the next heart beat...that was classic Puck. Now your underestimating Puck greatly.
Good thing for Puck he doesn't get tired eh?
1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/avengers_v1_322_13_rougher.jpg
Bad comparision, as Sabretooth isn't vastly above Puck like Odin was to Thanos.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Errrr? Puck is said to have Spider-Man level speed and reflexes.
And Sabretooth doesn't? Being noticeably faster than Wolverine, though Spiderman never was?
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Good thing for Puck he doesn't get tired eh?
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Bad comparision, as Sabretooth isn't vastly above Puck like Odin was to Thanos.
As above, I wasn't saying that Sabretooth was Odin to Puck's Thanos, just that a long fight does not mean a close one. Puck versus an adamantium Sabretooth is clearly in Sabretooth's favor. I don't feel that I'm underestimating Puck, rather, I feel you're either severely overrating him, or severely underrating Sabretooth. 😬.
Originally posted by Soljer
And Sabretooth doesn't? Being noticeably faster than Wolverine, though Spiderman never was?
No, what Wolverine has over Spider-Man was combat speed. Even Captain America has bested Spider-Man, but that doesn't mean he is as fast as him. However, what Spider-Man lacks Puck has and that's fighting skill, and has nearly gone through the same experiences as Wolverine. His skill is so great, even Wolverine knew only Puck could sneak up on him the way he did
1. http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c365/A_Flight4/AlphaFLight_17_18.jpg
Even classic Puck bested Brass Bishop who was toying with Spider-Man
Originally posted by Soljer
I wasn't saying he did, I was just giving a couple examples where a lengthy fight did not mean a hard one - nor a close one.
Even though even with your example Spider-Man has still taken it to Wolverine in the past and vice versa. Faulty example
Originally posted by Soljer
As above, I wasn't saying that Sabretooth was Odin to Puck's Thanos, just that a long fight does not mean a close one. Puck versus an adamantium Sabretooth is [b]clearly in Sabretooth's favor. I don't feel that I'm underestimating Puck, rather, I feel you're either severely overrating him, or severely underrating Sabretooth. 😬. [/B]
Context is everything, and their not leaps and bounds over each other in power. So this wouldn't be close? Heh! Underestimating Puck again, he has gone against people even above Sabretooth and given them a fight, so Sabretooth would be beyond Puck? Please. Were not even positive Sabretooth could even cut Puck with his invulberability and nearly indestructable body.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
No, what Wolverine has over Spider-Man was combat speed. Even Captain America has bested Spider-Man,
While hero worshipping - something he doesn't do elsewhere. but that doesn't mean he is as fast as him. However, what Spider-Man lacks Puck has and that's fighting skill, and has nearly gone through the same experiences as Wolverine. His skill is so great, even Wolverine knew only Puck could sneak up on him the way he did
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Even classic Puck bested Brass Bishop who was toying with Spider-Man
And classic Iron Fist beat the Steel Serpent who toyed with Spiderman. So?
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Even though even with your example Spider-Man has still taken it to Wolverine in the past and vice versa. Faulty example
In a purely melee confrontation? Nah.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Context is everything, and their not leaps and bounds over each other in power.
Overall power doesn't matter. The Thing is clearly more 'powerful' than Wolverine, but Wolverine would still beat him for a majority.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
So this wouldn't be close? Heh! Underestimating Puck again, he has gone against people even above Sabretooth and given them a fight, so Sabretooth would be beyond Puck? Please. Were not even positive Sabretooth could even cut Puck with his invulberability and nearly indestructable body.
And Sabretooth, without adamantium, has gone up against better than Puck and did absolutely fine. Besides, considering what Adamantium is and is not capable of cutting - there is no reason to believe that it couldn't pierce puck. Especially with several tons more strength behind it than Logan was ever capable of applying.
Originally posted by Soljer
And classic Iron Fist beat the Steel Serpent who toyed with Spiderman. So?
*sigh* You missed the point as it relates to even being outclassed powerwise skill can make up for it. Puck has the skill, far more then Spider-Man and when he was peak human he beat people who toyed with him. Now he has became superhuman in every area, he has the skill over Spider-Man and the durability. No way is Sabretooth walking over him.
Originally posted by Soljer
In a purely melee confrontation? Nah.
Yes he has
Originally posted by Soljer
Overall power doesn't matter. The Thing is clearly more 'powerful' than Wolverine, but Wolverine would still beat him for a majority.
But your implying it would be easy when it clearly it WOULD NOT.
Originally posted by Soljer
And Sabretooth, without adamantium, has gone up against better than Puck and did absolutely fine. Besides, considering what Adamantium is and is not capable of cutting - there is no reason to believe that it couldn't pierce puck. Especially with several tons more strength behind it than Logan was ever capable of applying.
Which is alright, but your making the assumption the battle would be easy for Sabretooth when no way in the least would it be. Yet there is no evidence to say he could for sure, as even Wolverine's claws failed before against invulnerable characters and later on in Wolverine's carrer he shown multiple ton strength and matching with Sabretooth before. Puck was said to have the same level of durability as Colossus and Mr.Fantastic, so would he cut him easily? Unknown for sure.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
*sigh* You missed the point as it relates to even being outclassed powerwise skill can make up for it. Puck has the skill, far more then Spider-Man and when he was peak human he beat people who toyed with him. Now he has became superhuman in every area, he has the skill over Spider-Man and the durability. No way is Sabretooth walking over him.
When Puck has a clear skill advantage, sure. Against Sabretooth, he does not.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yes he has
Originally posted by King_Mungi
But your implying it would be easy when it clearly it WOULD NOT.
I never meant to imply that the fight itself would be EASY, persay, just that the 'odds' - the typical 'out of ten' rating would be quite favorable to Sabretooth. Like I said, it could be a long fight without ever being a 'close' one.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yet there is no evidence to say he could for sure, as even Wolverine's claws failed before against invulnerable characters
Due to a lack of strength, something Sabretooth needn't suffer.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
and later on in Wolverine's carrer he shown multiple ton strength
Never seen anything clearly out of, say, Steve Rogers' range.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Puck was said to have the same level of durability as Colossus and Mr.Fantastic, so would he cut him easily? Unknown for sure.
Cool - but Colossus' steel is 'no match for pure adamantium,' and Mr. Fantastic had to consciously expand himself 'around' Wolverine's claws - something that Puck cannot do.
Originally posted by Soljer
When Puck has a clear skill advantage, sure. Against Sabretooth, he does not.
Close enough to not make a difference, and people not as skilled or even as fast has taken it to Sabretooth in the past.
Originally posted by Soljer
Really? Not doubting you, but I'd love to see where.
Graveyard fight, Wolverine was taking his hits but he was still making a fight out of it.
Originally posted by Soljer
I never meant to imply that the fight itself would be EASY, persay, just that the 'odds' - the typical 'out of ten' rating would be quite favorable to Sabretooth. Like I said, it could be a long fight without ever being a 'close' one.
I definetly could see Sabretooth take the majority [If he could cut Puck], but my whole thing is the claim or how I interpreted how you were saying an "easy win"
Originally posted by Soljer
Due to a lack of strength, something Sabretooth needn't suffer.
Eh? Wolverine basically could match him with strength near the end of his career. He definetly started out stronger, but near the end they were almost equal.
Originally posted by Soljer
Never seen anything clearly out of, say, Steve Rogers' range.
Well they say peakhuman is 800lbs, yet Wolverine and Cap has shown above that. Hell Cap has thrown his shield and it caught up with a rocket that was flying for abit before he tossed the shield to save Falcon
Originally posted by Soljer
Cool - but Colossus' steel is 'no match for pure adamantium,' and Mr. Fantastic had to consciously expand himself 'around' Wolverine's claws - something that Puck cannot do.
Yet it has yet to actually cut him. Actually apparently Puck could, as his body was aikin to compressed rubber and near the end of vol1 seemed to be going that route in more depth...but the series got cancelled.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Close enough to not make a difference
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Graveyard fight, Wolverine was taking his hits but he was still making a fight out of it.
You'd have to be stoned to think that the graveyard fight was evidence of Spiderman 'taking it to Wolverine in a purely melee confrontation.' Wolverine wasn't just taking the punches, he was taking a full on onslaught with a dumb grin on his face.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
I definetly could see Sabretooth take the majority [If he could cut Puck], but my whole thing is the claim or how I interpreted how you were saying an "easy win"
Again, I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good fight to watch, I'm not saying it'd be over in less than thirty seconds. I'm saying that the victor would more often than not be Victor. I'm saying that the difficulty of the fight does not indicate the 'out of ten odds' all the time. I'm pointing out that while Puck WILL hurt Creed, and will last a bit of time with Creed, he will be very hard pressed to actually best creed.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Eh? Wolverine basically could match him with strength near the end of his career. He definetly started out stronger, but near the end they were almost equal.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Well they say peakhuman is 800lbs, yet Wolverine and Cap has shown above that. Hell Cap has thrown his shield and it caught up with a rocket that was flying for abit before he tossed the shield to save Falcon
Trust me, you're not gonna teach me anything about Captain America. They're both around class one - two, tops. Nowhere near the type of strength that Sabretooth possesses.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yet it has yet to actually cut him. Actually apparently Puck could, as his body was aikin to compressed rubber and near the end of vol1 seemed to be going that route in more depth...but the series got cancelled.
No, it cut him - hence the scoring of Colossus' organic steel. Just because he didn't plunge his claws into Colossus doesn't mean he's incapable of cutting him. He's raked his claws across base-line humans before, just to have some insignificant scratches be the only evidence of such attack - doesn't mean he was incapable of cutting them - but in this case in particular, there needn't be any confusion as the narration directly tells us that Colossus is no match for Logan's claws.
Further, being comprised of compressed rubber doesn't mean that he could consciously expand or contract the way Mr. Fantastic could, and supposing that 'maybe' the writers 'could have' later enabled him to is baseless, pointless, and meaningless.
Originally posted by Soljer
Exactly my point; so your 'skill' leveller means nothing.
Huh? you missed the point again, I'm talking about the likes of Spider-Man his skill is inferior to both. Puck is more skilled and more durable to say he couldn't give Sabretooth a fight is faulty and inaccurate.
Originally posted by Soljer
You'd have to be stoned to think that the graveyard fight was evidence of Spiderman 'taking it to Wolverine in a purely melee confrontation.' Wolverine wasn't just taking the punches, he was taking a full on onslaught with a dumb grin on his face.
I know hence why I said taking his punches it was a reference he still could "keep up" with Wolverine and he generally gets owned by people who are more skilled then him [Spider-Man]. Yet the likes of Cap have hurt Wolverine.
Originally posted by Soljer
Again, I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good fight to watch, I'm not saying it'd be over in less than thirty seconds. I'm saying that the victor would more often than not be Victor. I'm saying that the difficulty of the fight does not indicate the 'out of ten odds' all the time. I'm pointing out that while Puck WILL hurt Creed, and will last a bit of time with Creed, he will be very hard pressed to actually best creed.
Creed winning the majority is fine, but 10/10 naaaah. Every win Creed would take would be a battle and that's all I wanted to say. This isn't about Puck winning the majority; but how easily Creed would beat him.
Originally posted by Soljer
I'm not sabretooth expert - but are we claiming that Wolverine is current strong enough to punch out classic Rogue? 😕.
Truthfully? I wouldn't be suprized even punches from him have hurt the Wendigo and such.
Originally posted by Soljer
Trust me, you're not gonna teach me anything about Captain America. They're both around class one - two, tops. Nowhere near the type of strength that Sabretooth possesses.
They still have feats over class 2, but regardless Puck IS stronger then both of them. Their's no doubt about it so add over class 10 strength, with spider-man's speed and reflexes, HIGH durability and 100 years of fighting experience and thus you have Puck. I'm not overestimating him in the least that's who he is. Even classic Puck was dodging attacks from Deadly Ernest quite easily who he himself just prior caught both Northstar and Aurora speedblizing him and while they were coming to attack from behind him. He didn't even turn around to catch them. Puck's a stud, he doesn't get the credit he deserves
Originally posted by Soljer
No, it cut him - hence the scoring of Colossus' organic steel. Just because he didn't plunge his claws into Colossus doesn't mean he's incapable of cutting him. He's raked his claws across base-line humans before, just to have some insignificant scratches be the only evidence of such attack - doesn't mean he was incapable of cutting them - but in this case in particular, there needn't be any confusion as the narration directly tells us that Colossus is no match for Logan's claws.
I'm talking about plunge like he did against the likes of Thing, etc.
Sidenote: Who was that invulnerable person who Wolverine fought that had spikes in his arm and tossed him over the cliff? He was a leader of a clan of some sorts. General question.
Originally posted by Soljer
Further, being comprised of compressed rubber doesn't mean that he could consciously expand or contract the way Mr. Fantastic could, and supposing that 'maybe' the writers 'could have' later enabled him to is baseless, pointless, and meaningless.
Errr? That's what Walter theorized he could do giving him added durability [On-Panel]. On the level of Mr.Fantastic? no, but add that to before he was still said to be invulnerable and nearly indestructable. What he didn't show was the skill in this.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
By stinging his arm down his throat and grabbing something soft and squishy?
Would be interesting to see, but every tissue in his body is aikin to compressed rubber making him invulnerable.
I would be impressed if Sabretooth could get his hand down Puck's small mouth.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Would be interesting to see, but every tissue in his body is aikin to compressed rubber making him invulnerable.I would be impressed if Sabretooth could get his hand down Puck's small mouth.
The tooth can pull it off 😉
Right now I'm thinking
Shang vs Iron Fist = Currently a slight nod to Shang Chi
Karnak vs Batgirl = Split, slight edge to Karnak
Puck vs Sabretooth = Sabs with the majority
... But I'm tired and I have been dragging my art school project along the subway and bus for more then an hour to get home, so I reserve the right to change my oppinion.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The tooth can pull it off 😉Right now I'm thinking
Shang vs Iron Fist = Currently a slight nod to Shang Chi
Karnak vs Batgirl = Split, slight edge to Karnak
Puck vs Sabretooth = Sabs with the majority
Normal Sabretooth literally has no means to actually hurt Puck. With adamintium sure, but he doesn't have it here.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Normal Sabretooth literally has no means to actually hurt Puck. With adamintium sure, but he doesn't have it here.
If Sabs sticks his arm down Pucks throat, the very least that will happen is that he will pass out... worst case scenario his internal organs get shredded.
