Originally posted by TricksterPriestCan you show me some of Orion's skill on panel?
Thanos has bitchslapped Surfer. Manhandled Herc, Hulk and others. He's around that level. But he has no combat speed. and little to no demonstrable skill.Orion will work him over, but minus the AF, I don't think he can win.
I've heard so much of it,and just bought into it, but now that I think about it I haven't really seen anything from him.
I don't want to offend anyone, I just kept reading things like Orions speed and such, but have never viewed him as a speedster.
Can someone clear this up please, because he looks like he's about as fast as Thanos. The Harness isn't really a power as much as it is a device, so without where has he been seen to employ super human speed?
I also don't think that these two are on the same level, as Thanos of old was easily able to deal with Thor and the Thing knocking out the Thing with one hit, and beginning to work on Thor. I just don't see Orion as a decent challenge.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
I don't want to offend anyone, I just kept reading things like Orions speed and such, but have never viewed him as a speedster.Can someone clear this up please, because he looks like he's about as fast as Thanos. The Harness isn't really a power as much as it is a device, so without where has he been seen to employ super human speed?
I also don't think that these two are on the same level, as Thanos of old was easily able to deal with Thor and the Thing knocking out the Thing with one hit, and beginning to work on Thor. I just don't see Orion as a decent challenge.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestthanos trained gamora from the approximate age of 7-8 into the universe's most lethal fighter.
Thanos has bitchslapped Surfer. Manhandled Herc, Hulk and others. He's around that level. But he has no combat speed. and little to no demonstrable skill.Orion will work him over, but minus the AF, I don't think he can win.
and the fight he had with his doppleganger exhibited his fighting skills, whom he combo'd the shit out of. beating your mirror image is a pretty great feat.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Thanos has bitchslapped Surfer. Manhandled Herc, Hulk and others. He's around that level. But he has no combat speed. and little to no demonstrable skill.Orion will work him over, but minus the AF, I don't think he can win.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
thanos trained gamora from the approximate age of 7-8 into the universe's most lethal fighter.
That said, the only actual piece of that training we have ever seen has her being taught exclusively by robots. Thanos doesn't do a damn thing.
And when they actually get into a fight, she dances circles around him.
and the fight he had with his doppleganger exhibited his fighting skills, whom he combo'd the shit out of. beating your mirror image is a pretty great feat.
Except that he didn't beat it alone, Sue Storm helped him (without his knowledge)
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
I don't want to offend anyone, I just kept reading things like Orions speed and such, but have never viewed him as a speedster.Can someone clear this up please, because he looks like he's about as fast as Thanos. The Harness isn't really a power as much as it is a device, so without where has he been seen to employ super human speed?
Absolutely a fair question.
Orion IS a speedster, in so far as fighting speed. He's demonstrated it numerous times, and in combination with his skill it makes a deadly combo.
I'll include a few scans from a respect thread I did a bit back.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/af6cad34.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/193f7f1f.jpg
But how can Orion fight those with Super Speed, you may say!
For that, I point you to the above scans, in which, while comatose and presumably highly weakened (According to Darkseid in a later issue, anyway) he takes out a dog patrol before they even realize that they are being attacked.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/d75175d7.jpg
Another speed reference.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/cac6c794.jpg
And another.
http://www.gazler.com/users/desaad/orion_25_kebbin_03.jpg
And yet another.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/a286a3f9.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/1de535bf.jpg
And probably the most impressive speed feat of all…..Blind, he catches a bullet behind his back, and then throws it back into Jingles Jericho’s gun.
I also don't think that these two are on the same level, as Thanos of old was easily able to deal with Thor and the Thing knocking out the Thing with one hit, and beginning to work on Thor. I just don't see Orion as a decent challenge.
I wholeheartedly agree that Orion is far weaker and less durable than Thanos.
That said, Thanos was using his energy beams in that fight...I assume for this one it is just fisticuffs.
Now, he's still far stronger and more durable, BUT we saw what a skilled, fast opponent could do against him when he went up against Gamora. And she is far less physically powerful than is Orion. AND Thanos was using energy in that fight.
Do I think Orion can win this? No. But I think he'd do great in this kind of situation, and would in fact be one of the best heroes in comics for this type of fight. Check out his battle with Darkseid.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Can you show me some of Orion's skill on panel?I've heard so much of it,and just bought into it, but now that I think about it I haven't really seen anything from him.
You'll hear about it quite a bit in the actual issues. Pretty much any kirby fight showcases it, his skill in regards to Kalibak is SPECIFICALLY referenced, his battle against Darkseid is probably his most notable, or when he takes on the Sentries of New Genesis, or the group of New Genesians while they are insane, his battle against Valkrya, the martial arts goddess of New Genesis, etc.
There are many, many examples of this in fact.
Originally posted by DesaadOk,first off Thanos and Gamora were only playing around. Thanos killed her before in combat, pre-mistress death upgrade.
That said, the only actual piece of that training we have ever seen has her being taught exclusively by robots. Thanos doesn't do a damn thing.And when they actually get into a fight, she dances circles around him.
Except that he didn't beat it alone, Sue Storm helped him (without his knowledge)
Since Thanos wasnt out for blood we can hardly use that example as concrete proof of her skill being out of his league especially since he killed her in the past. He also is the one who trained her to be this deadly.
Thanos' durability is head and shoulders above Orion's. I dont even think Orion could beat the Surfer while Thanos beats him down, effortlessly. This is a stomp.
Originally posted by quanchi112
This is a stomp.
It truly is.
I really cant see Orion taking even one. I havent read all the pages on this thread, but i've seen a few posts trying to measure Thanos' strength. I'm not sure why thats being asked. I dont think theres any actual strength feats for Thanos that I can remember, but theres plenty of evidence that he smacks people like Orion around all the time. Hell, he fought Thor with the Power Gem for awhile until he got bored of it (not sure he thought he would eventually win that brawl anyways). If there were maybe three or four Orions fighting Thanos in H2H, that MIGHT tip the scales.
This thread is close to spite in my opinion. I view Thanos as much more than Orion.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok,first off Thanos and Gamora were only playing around. Thanos killed her before in combat, pre-mistress death upgrade.Since Thanos wasnt out for blood we can hardly use that example as concrete proof of her skill being out of his league especially since he killed her in the past.
They never had an extended match, though, this was the first time we saw a real fight rather than execution style killing.
And even if you assume Thanos wasn't out for blood - I'm sure that if he was he could have used an omni-directional blast to kill her - he was still trying to put her down, just as Gamora was trying to put him down. By that same token, Gamora wasn't going all out.
But Adam and Drax make it clear that they were playing for keeps, that this wasn't a joke, and that they wanted to put the other down. And Thanos couldn't play a hand on Gamora. Or an energy blast, for that matter.
He also is the one who trained her to be this deadly.
Again, from all we have seen, it was his ROBOTS and his SHIP that taught her everything. Thanos has never demonstrated much in the way of fighting skill, which is why people like Gamora or Mar-Vell can cause such damage.
Thanos' durability is head and shoulders above Orion's. I dont even think Orion could beat the Surfer while Thanos beats him down, effortlessly. This is a stomp.
Thanos puts him down with energy blasts and what not (though I do think Orion can beat the Surfer).
We are talking about a straight fisticuffs battle here, which plays into Orion's favor far more than it would the Surfer. Orion is stronger, has better blunt force damage soak, faster in combat, and far far FAR more skilled than the Surfer is.
Do I think it gives Orion the win? No, I don't. But I think he does better than almost any other hero in this situation.
1v1 battles are kind of his thing.
Originally posted by DesaadThey were both trying to put each other down but werent going all out. I mean do you seriously think Gamora could defeat Thanos? He could easily imprison her in a block of pure force,etc. I know this particular fight is a straight up brawl but I have seen Orion trade blows and not use this super speed before as often as you think he does. Regardless,Thanos take take his blows with a smile on his face. Hell,he took blows from a power gem Thor and smiled through the beatdown he receieved at the hands of Thor. Thanos and Gamora were just physically engaging each other but werent out for blood as you agree. Thanos was in tip-top shape after this fight,anyways.
They never had an extended match, though, this was the first time we saw a real fight rather than execution style killing.And even if you assume Thanos wasn't out for blood - I'm sure that if he was he could have used an omni-directional blast to kill her - he was still trying to put her down, just as Gamora was trying to put him down. By that same token, Gamora wasn't going all out.
But Adam and Drax make it clear that they were playing for keeps, that this wasn't a joke, and that they wanted to put the other down. And Thanos couldn't play a hand on Gamora. Or an energy blast, for that matter.
Again, from all we have seen, it was his ROBOTS and his SHIP that taught her everything. Thanos has never demonstrated much in the way of fighting skill, which is why people like Gamora or Mar-Vell can cause such damage.
Thanos puts him down with energy blasts and what not (though I do think Orion can beat the Surfer).
We are talking about a straight fisticuffs battle here, which plays into Orion's favor far more than it would the Surfer. Orion is stronger, has better blunt force damage soak, faster in combat, and far far FAR more skilled than the Surfer is.
Do I think it gives Orion the win? No, I don't. But I think he does better than almost any other hero in this situation.
1v1 battles are kind of his thing.
Thanos did teach her everything she knows. Unless, you ignore this scan and the meaning of it?
This scan clearly shows Thanos was fooling around and that she caused him no damage with all of her dancing around. Even she knew this nerve blow,really didnt damage him. She knew he was faking it. So,why reference this fight as if its some example of Thanos losing to skill when he clearly wasnt out for blood?
I do agree that Orion is far more dangerous in hand to hand then the Surfer. Sure,Thanos uses hand blasts and what not but as these scans clearly show he beats the shit out of Surfer by using his fists.
But,really you agree that Thanos wins so what the hell are we really arguing about?
It's not really a debate of who would win, IMO Thanos does take a good majority but I do think Orion gives him a fight for each win. Orion is peers with supes in regards to strength,combat speed,durability and with even more impressive h2h. In fact wasn't there a scan of Orion punking the greatest known MA in the universe or something.
Anyhow I can see Orion elluding Thanos during some of the exchanges on the account of his vastly superior combat speed and h2h skill. I do think Thanos will move forward uneffected by most of Orion's blows but he will certainlly feel them and certainly not be unphased. When all is said and done a fighter of Orion's calibur will certainly make Thanos work for the win. Thanos 7/10
