Originally posted by DigiMark007
My point exactly. But to Mota, by the way he talks about it, it seems like his assertion feels intuitively correct to him, regardless of his inability to back it up with some form of logic. So it's likely his opinion won't be swayed.Coincidentally, after I posted a similar post to my last post in our other conversation, he stopped responding. I'm not really expecting any more responses, and will be just as happy to leave him alone from now on. It's a shame when I can't convince someone to be a bit more compassionate and rational toward others, but if I fail there's no sense in continuing to try.
I don't hate Ahteists. I have friends and family who are. You make it sound like I snipe them for kicks.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I don't hate Ahteists. I have friends and family who are. You make it sound like I snipe them for kicks.
I already discussed this exact point. Making it again doesn't validate it.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I didn't say you disliked them. We've had this conversation before, and you again mentioned your son.But your comments are, in fact, bigoted against atheists whether you want to admit it or not. And you have yet to offer anything in support of such widespread generalizations other than 1-2 people you know or saw on the internet, and the intuitive "well doesn't it seem like a lot of them are like that...?" style of arguments.
If I have a friend who is black, then talk about some racial stereotype of blacks like it's unwavering truth about the general populace of balck people, I'm racist. And I think I used this same example (and these same arguments) last time we talked. So you either aren't reading, aren't remembering, or can't comprehend your own bias.
When the Catholics were taking over, they found out that the Pagans had all these festivals that were associated with their beliefs. The Catholics certainly couldn't allow them to keep these festivals as they were not Christian, so they came up with a compromise. They would let the Pagans keep their festivals, but it would have a different name. The Pagans agreed. Therefore, while Christmas does promote a Christian atmosphere, it was not originally a Christian holiday. It was just something thrown in to keep the Pagans happy.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yes it is, because both are unjustified generalizations that are derogatory toward another group of people.
Not quite. I acknowledged a long time ago that not all Atheist share that view, so you're really harping my observation to death.
You're not one of those "religous people are dumb" Atheists, so you seem to assume that it's a rare, few-and-far-between trait among them.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Not quite. I acknowledged a long time ago that not all Atheist share that view, so you're really harping my observation to death.You're not one of those "religous people are dumb" Atheists, so you seem to assume that it's a rare, few-and-far-between trait among them.
Jesus, are we still going around in this circle?
You're still asserting that the majority of atheists are like that. Thus, a generalization. Saying "I don't think it's all of them" does nothing to help you escape from your comments.
And you haven't provided any logical support for the opinion other than intuitive guessing, a few case studies of internet hatred, and your intrinsic sense that it's probably right.
...and yes, I have my opinion on the matter, and it may be biased. Possibly as biased as yours (though I consider that to be very doubtful, given your stubborness in this bigotry). But the difference is that I'm not assuming that I'm right based on nothing but intolerance and guesswork.
Originally posted by Quiero MotaIts an intolerance of other people, poorly defended by stating that you have friends that are that which you are prejudiced against.
An aspect of Atheists I don't care for isn't comparable with racsim.
It's like that peruivian guy with his racist crack against mexicans.
"I'm not being racist, cause I have friends who are mexican."
"I'm not being prejudiced, against atheists I have friends who are atheist."
"I'm not being homophobic, I have friends who are homosexual."
"I'm not being prosopoleptic, I have friends who are ugly.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Jesus, are we still going around in this circle?You're still asserting that the majority of atheists are like that. Thus, a generalization. Saying "I don't think it's all of them" does nothing to help you escape from your comments.
And you haven't provided any logical support for the opinion other than intuitive guessing, a few case studies of internet hatred, and your intrinsic sense that it's probably right.
Ijole guey, I don't live on or get my information from a computer. I've known and spoken with many Atheists. Of course they don't represent the world's population.
Also, I commend you for not being one of those.
Thanks for the commendation and all, but I'm really more interested in trying to convince you that (if nothing else) a bit more compassion/tolerance is in order, and not being so quick to judge aspects of society that you aren't prepared to analyze empirically. It is an assumption. It is a generalization. It is derogatory toward atheists, including your son, regardless of your view of him personally. And I think you'd be better off trying to rid yourself of it.
...the kind of statements that you make are the kinds of things I face regularly as an atheist, because public sentiment is more strongly opposed to the notion than many people realize. Most of it is un-true, and just a by-product of society's natural slant toward theism. But when I see people making such statements (like you do), I cringe, regardless of whether it's directed at me personally or not....because it's creating needless bias that can't lead to good.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Thanks for the commendation and all, but I'm really more interested in trying to convince you that (if nothing else) a bit more compassion/tolerance is in order, and not being so quick to judge aspects of society that you aren't prepared to analyze empirically. It is an assumption. It is a generalization. It is derogatory toward atheists, including your son, regardless of your view of him personally. And I think you'd be better off trying to rid yourself of it....the kind of statements that you make are the kinds of things I face regularly as an atheist, because public sentiment is more strongly opposed to the notion than many people realize. Most of it is un-true, and just a by-product of society's natural slant toward theism. But when I see people making such statements (like you do), I cringe, regardless of whether it's directed at me personally or not....because it's creating needless bias that can't lead to good.
Why do you personally find it deragatory? The Atheists who hold that view are proud of it, it's as though disbelieving in any god(s) is liberating.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Why do you personally find it deragatory? The Atheists who hold that view are proud of it, it's as though disbelieving in any god(s) is liberating.
It is, imo. But that doesn't mean they hold themselves above theists somehow (angry internet video-bloggers notwithstanding). I find it personally derogatory because if I had to venture a guess, I'd say the large majority of atheists aren't like that. Yet societal sentiment is very much in accord with your statements....so you have an inherent bias (and many times, dislike) of atheists "in general." And rational, compassionate atheists need to overcome that before anyone will respect them, and are met with hostility, anger, and derogatory assumptions....a needless hurdle that can be overcome with increased tolerance.
My own mother was scared when I said I was an atheist. Not of me personally, but all she knew was that the word atheist is "bad". And it wasn't learned from actual statistical data, but just idiotic cultural bias against the concept.
Originally posted by Quiero MotaAs well as those that think that believing in a god is liberating as well. Just face it you do not know, you have not talked to that many atheist to make a correct judgment, much the same that I have, which I pretty sure I've talked to more. It could be very well that your assumption is correct but you can not possibly know this for a fact or even make a logical argument because you do not have enough evidence or proof to back up your claim.
Why do you personally find it deragatory? The Atheists who hold that view are proud of it, it's as though disbelieving in any god(s) is liberating.
Originally posted by Bardock42I never acknowledged or denied that it did. I was agreeing with the clerk, that the WHOLE holiday season, the time before christmas until new years, can be referred to as "happy holidays."
I agree with that fully, too.Doesn't relate to your point though.
It's a HOLIDAY whether you celebrate it as the birth of christ, or as a time for family.
you dont believe in christ and celebrate it as a time to be with family. I believe in christ and celebrate it as his birthday.