BS.... Yes you can call that fight BS, it was fan based voting that had Juggernaut being knocked out by Wonder Woman. It is also not considered canon. Juggernaut was written by someone that has little understanding of the word Unstoppable, Diana would be the underdog in any match up with a power house like The Juggernaut. What I meant earlier is that Juggernaut has to increase his strength to stay up with Hulk, after all every second of every minute that someone is in a fight with the Hulk he changes. There is no known limit to how strong he becomes, the same has to be said for the Juggernaut.
Let's dissect this fight between Cain and Kalibak for the characters that they are.
1. Cain would be considered to have above super human strength, he would be classified as having Unearthly strength, as would Kalibak.
2. Kalibak has a cap on his strength level Juggernaut has shown that he can actually call upon more power to allow him to hang with the Hulk while he gets stronger as seen in the X-Men. At the point that they faced off (Cain and Bruce), the Hulk was at a level that surpassed the point in which he was able to crush Colossus' nearly indestructible body with ease. This leads to evidence suggesting that Juggernaut was tapping into a well of undefined power, which shows that he can in fact increase his strength and durability if need be. Kalibak can not, as he is not an Avatar of Strength like the Juggernaut is.
3. Kalibak has a plot device but he can be separated from it, unlike Thor and his mystical symbiote Mjolnir. The Beta club when placed on a scale of power would rank fairly low when confronting the powers that make up an Avatar of Strength. I'd rate the Mace that he uses below Mjolnir which had little effect on Juggernaut, and was able to dent Captain America's shield. The shield if I am not mistaken is made up of adamantium, and vibranium making it the most durable physical substance in the Marvel Universe. In Thor's hands Mjolnir has the power to crack a small planet. Juggernaut at his best (8th day) didn't even feel it and he was hit with all of Thor's might. If Kalibak was hit like that he'd be in a coma.
4. I have just shown that Juggernaut's durability supersedes Kalibak, and in a fight between the two this is all that will matter. if Juggernaut had a test of strength with kalibak , he would break his arms, because the enchantment caused him to become far more durable than Kalibak.
If they with blow for blow it would be Kalibak that was taking damage.
5. Juggernaut would outlast him and brutally destroy him as Kalibaks wounds and exhaustion would impair his ability to to defend himself. Kalibak tires, Hulk and Juggernaut do not. This is the greatest reason why Juggernaut can't secure a clear cut victory over the Hulk, because the Hulk heals, becomes stronger, and more durable. Kalibak does not.
Like I said before this fight would look like a hammer bludgeonig meat. Kalibak would be the meat.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
BS.... Yes you can call that fight BS, it was fan based voting that had Juggernaut being knocked out by Wonder Woman. It is also not considered canon. Juggernaut was written by someone that has little understanding of the word Unstoppable, Diana would be the underdog in any match up with a power house like The Juggernaut. What I meant earlier is that Juggernaut has to increase his strength to stay up with Hulk, after all every second of every minute that someone is in a fight with the Hulk he changes. There is no known limit to how strong he becomes, the same has to be said for the Juggernaut.Let's dissect this fight between Cain and Kalibak for the characters that they are.
1. Cain would be considered to have above super human strength, he would be classified as having Unearthly strength, as would Kalibak.2. Kalibak has a cap on his strength level Juggernaut has shown that he can actually call upon more power to allow him to hang with the Hulk while he gets stronger as seen in the X-Men. At the point that they faced off (Cain and Bruce), the Hulk was at a level that surpassed the point in which he was able to crush Colossus' nearly indestructible body with ease. This leads to evidence suggesting that Juggernaut was tapping into a well of undefined power, which shows that he can in fact increase his strength and durability if need be. Kalibak can not, as he is not an Avatar of Strength like the Juggernaut is.
3. Kalibak has a plot device but he can be separated from it, unlike Thor and his mystical symbiote Mjolnir. The Beta club when placed on a scale of power would rank fairly low when confronting the powers that make up an Avatar of Strength. I'd rate the Mace that he uses below Mjolnir which had little effect on Juggernaut, and was able to dent Captain America's shield. The shield if I am not mistaken is made up of adamantium, and vibranium making it the most durable physical substance in the Marvel Universe. In Thor's hands Mjolnir has the power to crack a small planet. Juggernaut at his best (8th day) didn't even feel it and he was hit with all of Thor's might. If Kalibak was hit like that he'd be in a coma.
4. I have just shown that Juggernaut's durability supersedes Kalibak, and in a fight between the two this is all that will matter. if Juggernaut had a test of strength with kalibak , he would break his arms, because the enchantment caused him to become far more durable than Kalibak.
If they with blow for blow it would be Kalibak that was taking damage.5. Juggernaut would outlast him and brutally destroy him as Kalibaks wounds and exhaustion would impair his ability to to defend himself. Kalibak tires, Hulk and Juggernaut do not. This is the greatest reason why Juggernaut can't secure a clear cut victory over the Hulk, because the Hulk heals, becomes stronger, and more durable. Kalibak does not.
Like I said before this fight would look like a hammer bludgeonig meat. Kalibak would be the meat.
You said all of this on speculation of Kalibak I presume. It certainly doesn't seem like you know what your talking about. OH and Wonder Woman hitting The Juggernaut like that was NOT fan voted. The two access miniseries are both owned by BOTH marvel and DC and Access is a canon character.
Yes access is a cannonized character, but the fight was not, it was still fan voted. I saw the entire lineup of major fights and minor ones and Juggernaut facing off against Wonder Woman was on one of the cards, as was Venom beating Superman, remember that one? I know that Kalibak will suffer injuries, and Juggernaut will not, anyone who says anything but the same is wrong, due to the very nature of Cains power. Nvr you don't even believe in the BS that you trying to convince people of. You know Cain would win, but I applaud your skills as a debater.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Yes access is a cannonized character, but the fight was not, it was still fan voted. I saw the entire lineup of major fights and minor ones and Juggernaut facing off against Wonder Woman was on one of the cards, as was Venom beating Superman, remember that one? I know that Kalibak will suffer injuries, and Juggernaut will not, anyone who says anything but the same is wrong, due to the very nature of Cains power. Nvr you don't even believe in the BS that you trying to convince people of. You know Cain would win, but I applaud your skills as a debater.
The fan voted battles were
WW vs. Storm
Superman vs. Hulk
Spiderman vs. superboy
Wolverine Vs. Lobo
And Batman vs. captain america.
All access and Unlimited access were series produced by marvel and DC.
And i've yet to see juggernaut beat someone who would be stronger than he and with more options. As soon as his helmet gets knocked off, he'd be mind raped. If it's just a brawl, he'll get Bfr thru superior strength.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
OMG. There were only 5 fan voted battles. And Wonder Woman fighting juggernaut wasn't even in marvel vs DC. Nice try tho.The fan voted battles were
WW vs. Storm
Superman vs. Hulk
Spiderman vs. superboy
Wolverine Vs. Lobo
And Batman vs. captain america.All access and Unlimited access were series produced by marvel and DC.
Wrong again bro, I went to a comic retailer, and they had a huge poster up, the first list was the one you just posted, which was the major battles, the second one was the mini battles that were to take place over a period of time. Go to any reputable comic retailer and ask. Their battle was not considered canon. Do you honestly believe that Venom could beat Superman? Wonder Woman does not have what it takes to physically knock Juggernaut out.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Wrong again bro, I went to a comic retailer, and they had a huge poster up, the first list was the one you just posted, which was the major battles, the second one was the mini battles that were to take place over a period of time. Go to any reputable comic retailer and ask. Their battle was not considered canon. Do you honestly believe that Venom could beat Superman? Wonder Woman does not have what it takes to physically knock Juggernaut out.
WW does not have what it physically takes to knock the juggernaut out becuz you say so?Also it was mantis that knocked Juggernaut out. WW just helped juggs hit the right target. She was shown to be his physical superior in strenth tho. And The fan voted battles were just the 5. Trust me. The other battles were done by the writers. And Wonder Woman didn't fight Juggs in marvel vs DC. It was in All access or unlimited access. I can't remember. Published by marvel and DC.
All the same give some solid reasons as to why Kalibak could beat Juggernaut. Logic dictates that he will lose a battle against Juggernaut, because Juggernaut will outlast him. Kalibak has no healing factor, no second wind. What will keep him going, we already know what will keep Cain on his feet, and remain unaffected by Kals power.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
All the same give some solid reasons as to why Kalibak could beat Juggernaut. Logic dictates that he will lose a battle against Juggernaut, because Juggernaut will outlast him. Kalibak has no healing factor, no second wind. What will keep him going, we already know what will keep Cain on his feet, and remain unaffected by Kals power.
kalibak has a mother/father box. Which Is a healing factor if you didn't know. Kalibak is also far stronger than the top tier.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Mantis knocking Juggernaut out is laughable. Juggernaut has sustained much more than this a remained unfazed, PIS is what the Access story line was filled with.
How many beings has Juggy fought who were as powerful as Manits? Not that mantis was fighting him mind you? And Juggs is a PIS character in and of himself. he should Never be defeated and yet he so often is. he should never be touched, and yet so often he is.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
So now Kalibak get a mother box to help him out? Let's talk about him surviving on his own power and not some outside source to help him, or can I give Juggernaut Cyttoraks full power in this fight?
MOther boxes are stadard gear. what the hell are you talking about?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
How many beings has Juggy fought who were as powerful as Manits? Not that mantis was fighting him mind you? And Juggs is a PIS character in and of himself. he should Never be defeated and yet he so often is. he should never be touched, and yet so often he is.
CIS/PIS is what it has been on so many occasions, If the writers did not use these ways to defeat Cain it would logically be impossible for him to be beaten, and it is never as cut and dry as you make it out to be. No one has ever made Juggernaut seem like he was the Underdog in a fight outside of Onslaught.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
CIS/PIS is what it has been on so many occasions, If the writers did not use these ways to defeat Cain it would logically be impossible for him to be beaten, and it is never as cut and dry as you make it out to be. No one has ever made Juggernaut seem like he was the Underdog in a fight outside of Onslaught.
And War Hulk. And Hulk also just happened to be the only being able to crack onslaught's armor.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
MOther boxes are stadard gear. what the hell are you talking about?
You're grasping at straws, a motherbox is not in his power scheme and you know it. Besides the mother box can be destroyed in a fight, unless Kalibak has now become Tony Stark and fix it on the fly.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And War Hulk. And Hulk also just happened to be the only being able to crack onslaught's armor.
The hulk could crush Kalibak in the state he was in while fighting Onslaught, he was mindless. He was also exhibiting levels of strength that were near his WWHulk levels.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
You're grasping at straws, a motherbox is not in his power scheme and you know it. Besides the mother box can be destroyed in a fight, unless Kalibak has now become Tony Stark and fix it on the fly.
All you have to do is show someone with Juggy's power set destroying a mother box. And yes mother boxes are standard Gear. It's how the new gods get around.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
All you have to do is show someone with Juggy's power set destroying a mother box. And yes mother boxes are standard Gear. It's how the new gods get around.
That's fine and dandy NVR, but unless you've forgotten forum rules he is not allowed to have such a device in neutral combat.