I'm an athiest, but i hope that i'm wrong

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Odds say even if he does believe in God he's screwed if there is one.

True.

"Damned if you do; damned if you don't."

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I'd really like to believe that I'm the queen of the Sheba, or Chewbacca, or Princess Di, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

Because you know those are actually false, there is proof against them.

There is no valid evidence or proof for or against God eixisting, both sides have the same evidence (none), so altering beliefs to cause comfort should be fairly easy -- people do it all the time.

Originally posted by BackFire
Because you know those are actually false, there is proof against them.

There is no valid evidence or proof for or against God eixisting, both sides have the same evidence (none), so altering beliefs to cause comfort should be fairly easy -- people do it all the time.

I am so turned on right now.

But seriously, BF has a point.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I am so turned on right now.

I believe the topic of the thread should be altered to discuss this new and fascinating revelation.

Originally posted by BackFire
Because you know those are actually false, there is proof against them.

There is no valid evidence or proof for or against God eixisting, both sides have the same evidence (none), so altering beliefs to cause comfort should be fairly easy -- people do it all the time.

Not my point, my point is that if you don't believe in something then you can't just make yourself believe in it, because you like the concept. The concept of eternal life and an omniscient presence is very attractive to some, but there's a very big difference between ''wouldn't it be nice if...'' and ''I believe entirely in this presence''.

That's the whole point of religious beliefs, though -- comfort and peace of mind, it's pleasing to think that when you die there is more, that you will meet all of your lost loved ones after you die, that there is a God who will make everything make sense after you die and who loves you and all that, so people believe in it.

The thread starter sounds like he NEEDS to believe in something more, an afterlife and such, in order to feel comfortable or happy with life, as such, he shouldn't be an Athiest if he can't handle the most basic concept of the belief structure.

And yes, it is totally possible to alter beliefs drastically if you want to, especially one that is as subjective as religion or God. All you have to do often is look at it from a different viewpoint with an open mind, if you WANT to believe in something, especially something like God or a specific religion, you can.

Oh, and to answer a question to the thread starter. Athiests cope with death very easily -- by not worrying about it. According to their beliefs nothing occurs upon death, you aren't concious of it at any level, whether that be a logical or spiritual level, so you don't even know when it occurs, so it shouldn't be feared.

Originally posted by BackFire
That's the whole point of religious beliefs, though -- comfort and peace of mind, it's pleasing to think that when you die there is more, that there is a God who will make everything make sense after you die and who loves you and all that, so people believe in it.

The thread starter sounds like he NEEDS to believe in something more, an afterlife and such, in order to feel comfortable or happy with life, as such, he shouldn't be an Athiest.

And yes, it is totally possible to alter beliefs drastically if you want to, especially one that is as subjective as religion or God. All you have to do often is look at it from a different viewpoint with an open mind, if you WANT to believe in something, you can.

I'm sure some can, though people who chop and change their beliefs aren't exactly the best ambassador for that set of beliefs. I never said it wasn't possible, I merely agree with Bardock and think it's not easy and also hold the belief that it's not always the best option.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I'm sure some can, though people who chop and change their beliefs aren't exactly the best ambassador for that set of beliefs. I never said it wasn't possible, I merely agree with Bardock and think it's not easy and also hold the belief that it's not always the best option.

Really shouldn't worry about being an 'ambassador' for something like that. Should just believe in what makes you happy. It's something too personal and again, subjective, to really worry about being taken seriously. Like trying to be an authority on your imaginary friend or something, really doesn't matter.

No it's not always the best option, but it's entirely better than continuing to believe in something that's causing you sadness, when again, the point of it all is to believe in what makes sense to you and what brings you happiness and comfort.

I think, inherently, all man affirm the reality of a transcendent creator, even atheists; it is my view, that man either embrace the notion and take measures to seek understanding--perhaps a relationship?--despite the philosophical tug-of-war; not all truth is appealing, and so others reject what they naturally affirm and seek other more appealing truth. For instance, being held accountable/judged before a transcendent creator: some people--despite being apprehensive about the thought--humble themselves and remain open minded; other people simply--as I said before--seek other more appealing truth. Such people feel, in some cases, threatened by the thought of a transcendent creator; but most, I imagine, reject a transcendent creator out of selfishness and/or pride. This is not all inclusive, of course. Some people reject a transcendent creator in light of a dramatic experience, i.e., losing a loved one; but these people most certainly always focus their anger towards God, not the situation itself. Even in the worst of conditions, these men and women affirm the existence of a transcendent creator. Emotions and self-imposed philosophy are tools that atheists use to validate their thinking process. Professing that a "lack of evidence" lead persons away from faith, is just a scapegoat; they are running away from something that they cannot deny (for reasons stated in this response).

no1 is born with any knowledge of a creator. this can be easily proven by studying people born in enviornments not concerned with theism and just how much {completely}, your nurture determines what beleif you adhere to. selfishness and pride have NOTHING to do with it, if anything it take courage and humbleness to not consider yourself special, containing a soul, having a higher purpose, having an immortal soul, being CHOSEN on the right path as opposed to other people, having a spiritual protector and promise of ultimate justice.
as for those who blame god and not the envionment, its simple. as long as their loved one was not taken away by their OWN actions, than hte CREATOR of the world around them{god} is responsible for it. it makes perfect sense. atheists do not use TOOLS to validate their philosophy, it is infact THEISTS which have to use tools to validate their illogical beleifs. their is nothing illogical about atheism as there is nothing illogical about people who do not beleive in the invisible purple unicorn.
it is indeed lack of evidence and presence of evidence AGAINST the relegion that leads people away from it. and please tha last part is a disproven assumption, no1 is DENYING god. if that were true, then why are you so sure that its YOUR god that is the one true god? makes no sense.

My advice to you, if you'll entertain such, is to remain open minded. Purchase research material on all subjects; everything! Give a fair inquiry to religious study, and be honest. Study evolution and molecular biology, moreover. Research subjects on the internet, but use caution. Numerous websites DO NOT CONTAIN A BIBLIOGRAPHY AND LACK SPONSORSHIP! There are reasons for this; find another source of information. In any case, subjects about god, science, theology, prophecy, and history are incredibly complex, and they require a great amount of effort to study, depending on how far you wish to seek. I just hope, whatever you decision amounts to in the end, is one that you have confidence in, because you know that you studied honestly (and let the evidence speak for itself, not emotion).[/size]

but maybe you shud also try to be open minded about the possibility of atheists being partially or compleely right in their stance. science and theology CAN be very complex but even the simpler ones end up generally denying christianity/judaism/hinduism/islam etc. that is enough.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I am so turned on right now.

But seriously, BF has a point.

It's not like it is a 50-50 thing. Atheism is so way more likely that once you understood that, you will never be able to just switch on believing in God.

So, to answer your "why", Backfire, at least for me it is hard or almost impossible as I arrive at my conclusions through logically thinking about a topic, since...that just doesn't work with theism, I can't suddenly start believing that, cause even if I'd pretend to, my trust in science and logic would still tell me it isn't true, so it wouldn't be beliefing at all, but faking.

Kinda like what Christians do every day anyways.

Originally posted by Boris
Death is death.

What were you before you were born? Nothing.

What will you be after you die? Nothing.

Make the most of it now, cause there aint no 2nd chance!

So how many times have you died and return to the living to tell us this insight.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
So how many times have you died and return to the living to tell us this insight.

He got a point about the before you are born.

Originally posted by Bardock42
He got a point about the before you are born.

Not really, because before I was born mommy and daddy wanted a kid. Thus I came forth.

Ideas are the former....the results are the latter. So, I was the result of my parents idea of having a kid. My existance begin with my parents desire for a child. I didn't really came from nothing. I came from a desire and idea.

And so did my grandparents and my grandparents parents and so on. ....

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Not really, because before I was born mommy and daddy wanted a kid. Thus I came forth.

Ideas are the former....the results are the latter. So, I was the result of my parents idea of having a kid. My existance begin with my parents desire for a child. I didn't really came from nothing. I came from a desire and idea.

And so did my grandparents and my grandparents parents and so on. ....

But you had no consciousness, that could be the case after death just like it was before birth.

Originally posted by The big EH
i'm a hardcore athiest and i, i'm terrified of the thought of dying and there being nothing that i cant function, thas why i hope there is something else, i hope that god exists so much, but every inch of me sees no logical way how that is possible, i cant believe in him, i sorta wish i could but its just a gut feeling i cant deny, its eaing me alive. i wanna know, how do you believe in god and heaven and hell, and how athiests cope with the thought of death. death is just something i've never been able to cope with i cried like a baby when my mom explained the concept cause i started thinking about the blackness, nobody i've ever talked to has ever understood this, the way i think about death scares the absolute shit out of me.

Man searches for a logical universe that makes sense, but the truth is that the universe is always one step ahead logic

Being a believer in Islam,I can say that I do not fear death as much as u cuz I like many other believers of other religions I believe in an afterlife.

THis life simply can't be it.This world is a cruel and there are many ppl who get away with the bad things they do in this life and the injustice they do to others and most of the times,they get away with it.Does that mean those ppl who died bcuz of injustice will never get justice?Will their culprits never be punished?Ofcourse not.N the One who'll punish them is God.

Also,if u don't believe in an afterlife,then ther remains no reason y any1 shud do good n why any1 should refrain from wrongdoing at all.I stop myself from many bad things cuz I know they'll be harmful for me in the Hereafter n do many good things cuz I know I'll be rewarded,if not in this world then the next 1.

That's not the only logical way to prove God's existence.The existence of God is the most logical thing there is.For everything,there has to be a creator n for this universe,which has the most complex things,from microscopic organisms to the gigantic heavenly bodies floating around in space.U can't just say that everything came into being on it's own.u simply can't deny His existence cuz u can't see Him.

All I can say to you is😖top fearing death bud.If u've remained good in ur life,u shouldn't have anything to fear.This life is precious n it is given only once,but that also doesn't mean that u should do something ur creator does not want u to do.

Originally posted by Bardock42
But you had no conscious, if that could be the case after death just like it was before birth.

Do you really need consicious to exist?

If the answer is yes then all materials things that are non-living (i.e. a rock, a piece of wood...etc...) don't exist.....is that the case?

HA!

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Do you really need consicious to exist?

If the answer is yes then all materials things that are non-living (i.e. a rock, a piece of wood...etc...) don't exist.....is that the case?

HA!

🤨

That makes no sense whatsoever. Humans are defined by their conscioussness as well as a few other traits, those weren't existant before you were born (well, some time during the pregnancy of your mother), so "you" were indeed nothing. That the atoms that would create you one day existed already is of no matter. As that is not the point.

So....HA. 😐

Originally posted by maham

Also,if u don't believe in an afterlife,then ther remains no reason y any1 shud do good n why any1 should refrain from wrongdoing at all.I stop myself from many bad things cuz I know they'll be harmful for me in the Hereafter n do many good things cuz I know I'll be rewarded,if not in this world then the next 1.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

So you're only good and do no wrong because you think you'll be punished in an afterlife? Is that the only reason you don't go around killing people?

What about instead of doing good and being good to get rewards, you do it just to be... erm.. nice?

Originally posted by maham
Also,if u don't believe in an afterlife,then ther remains no reason y any1 shud do good n why any1 should refrain from wrongdoing at all.I stop myself from many bad things cuz I know they'll be harmful for me in the Hereafter n do many good things cuz I know I'll be rewarded,if not in this world then the next 1.

A great example of the selfish side of religion, so many people are only inspired to be 'good' due to he reward of an after life and lots of fluffy clouds.

Originally posted by The big EH
i'm a hardcore Atheist and i, i'm terrified of the thought of dying and there being nothing that i cant function, thas why i hope there is something else, i hope that god exists so much, but every inch of me sees no logical way how that is possible, i cant believe in him, i sorta wish i could but its just a gut feeling i cant deny, its eaing me alive. i wanna know, how do you believe in god and heaven and hell, and how athiests cope with the thought of death. death is just something i've never been able to cope with i cried like a baby when my mom explained the concept cause i started thinking about the blackness, nobody i've ever talked to has ever understood this, the way i think about death scares the absolute shit out of me

Man searches for a logical universe that makes sense, but the truth is that the universe is always one step ahead logic

Then you are not an Atheist. 😐