i know
its just my debating nature to never give up
if you want to know what a lying n00b leon is look here
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=473255&pagenumber=4
he's getting OFFICIAL Marvel info rammed down his throat but continues on saying what he pleases completely ignoring it and saying it's wrong
he's just too stupid to comprehend reality i think
Originally posted by 123KIDOh I know, I have debated with him, he comes up with theories no one else could comprehende(Dante and Vergil fast as light, Sora from KH being>Light, and other crap) and passes them off as fact.
i know
its just my debating nature to never give upif you want to know what a lying n00b leon is look here
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=473255&pagenumber=4
he's getting OFFICIAL Marvel info rammed down his throat but continues on saying what he pleases completely ignoring it and saying it's wrong
he's just too stupid to comprehend reality i think
well he has to raise his hand to take souls and according to V2D Pyron can think fast and move FTL, so he would hit Jedah, also technically Pyron has never fought the darkstalkers at 100% size and power, ime sure a sun coming at him at FTL speeds would mess him up pretty bad. He can turn liquid but will he be fast enough, i also heard he is effectively liquid, so pyron would be able to continually keep hitting him over and over, ime not sure Jedah could do much, he may even be turned from liquid to gas because of pyron, or the presure of pyrons size hitting him at such speesd would fuse his particles making him solid
yet i remember Asher being just as strong as every other E.S. the party had....
so yeah the one T-elos fought was not the same
not even close
hell it had completely different pilots and as we saw in EP2 the pilot and copilot of Asher can change some attacks and powers of it
huh???? first you say its the same as every other e.s. the party had then you go on to say "so yeah the one telos fought was not the same"??? are you fealing alright lately? u just contradicted yourself there. you are trying to prove that the one who fought metapsychosis was STRONGER than the one who fought telos but u say yourself that the one who fought metapsychosis is the SAME as every other e.s in the battle{making it practically the same as the one that telos was about to destroy} , thus undermining your own argument. whats with you, i clearly explained how the one that fought metapsychosis was infact INFERIOR to all the other e.s as it had only normal attack and power but no anima awakening. and this is exactly what an UNAWAKENED vessel of anima provides{like the one that telos fought} and hence making the power of telos's phase transfer cannon higher than that of omega metapsychosis{which cudnt destroy asher} hence giving you evidence that telos is easily compareable and infact more powerful than metapsychosis.
God already beat Zarathustra with chaos as its power source and controlled by Mary
only with God's power, Abel and the Zohar, could Zarathustra have poossibly succeeded in making one God
huh, erm no, that was never said ANYWHERE in the game. give me evidence otherwise. all we know is that zarathustra's operation has sumthing to do with chaos and mary's "sin" that is all, whether they were beaten or not has never been described. all zarathustra needs is the zohar and the power of anima. that is to ascend to the realm of god. WILHELM however, used it for other purposes for eternal recurrance, FOR which he used abel. the reason for this was explained by wilhelm himself who stated that he wud SEAL the eyes of god{abel and abel's ark} with zarathustra and that is whyhe used abel. otherwise abel was not a necessity if one wishes to become god. also remember that the maltranformed joshua FUSED with zarathustra and containing abel is NOT what zarathustra was actually about but was a consequence of the party rebelling against wilhelm's plan.
it really doesn't matter as the E.S. crafts are far more powerful than the actual party except for KOS-MOS and chaos and this is only with their powers fully awakened
why do u make arguments havign nuthing to do with the actual argument beign made? the e.s. crafts were ALL torn apart by joshua and the party BEAT joshua. the are not much stronger than the part they are just handy tools. and the fact remains that my argument remains and the beating of omega metapsychosis and telos further display of power make her more powerful than omega.
not even the awakened Omega so i don't care what they think of the weaker Omega
you have no proof of that but i'm used to it
how you debate
ah but i did provide evidence,but u tried to obscure the argument by bringing in kevin's expectation which have no consequence on the argument. and when i point that out to you, you claim again that i have given no evidence, when infact that was exactly what i had done before you obscured the argument. i guess im getting used to how YOU debate too.
yes i can
\chaos was born in this domain
U-DO is from the higher domain
thus he is stronger
hah. please provide evidence that chaos was born in this domain. as far as i know, he has been around longer than lost jerusalem era. he is the failsafe of the universe and definately not human. he posesses the anima which can destroy the universe and dimensionally shift the entire parts of unievre through space and time. it is never stated WHERE he is born or exactly WHO he is at his nature. he is called god in many places{and u can also confirm this on wiki if your that uncertain} and no1 knows who or what he is. also, isnt that in contradiction with your statement made earlier where you said that udo has never been shown to be able to destroy a universe. if indeed he is stronger than yeshua, and yeshua can destroy the universe, than shudnt u-do be able to detsroy universes to atleats? just saying that your point of view is very inconcistant. udo MAY be more powerful, but yeshua can destroy the universe and is sumwhat compareable to udo form what we have seen given his power of anima.
Abel screams a lot
it is never said why
so please don't assume
no he moans. he only screamed at that time. also you are forgetting still that IF abel was able to harness the full power of the zohar, then albedo as a testament wud have had NO CHANCE against him but he was able to eaily force out yuriev, abel and the zohar with ease while marvelling at his own power. thus telling us that abel was not even close to using the FULL POWER of the zohar.
so you know nothing of Xenosaga
gotcha
so you cant read, gotcha.
it says nothing of her being made of Mary allows her to interface with the UMN
she can do it but there is no stated reason why
yes, the reason she is superior to kosmos initially is due to her superior BODY which can interact directly with the umn.
no genius space-time anomalies occur when the higher-dimensional energy is unstable
it has nothing to do with the quantity of power but stabilizing the power
not necessarily. its the nature of the power. and again, omega metapsychosis did no t even HARNESS enough power that cud be compareable to space time anomoly.
for one Yuriev neve rtried to attack Albedo
two Abel seemed to have collapsed
Albedo didn't disable anything he just took out the unconscious (?) Abel and the Zohar and they went away [/B]
m GOD. u think uriev INTENTIONALLY didnt attack albedo. that is just silly, albedo was already in control of the whole omega metapsychosis. that is why he forced dimitri out and abel and the zohar. that is the extent of his power as a testament. furthermore, if abel had collapsed than you are directly admitting that the e.s s were victorius in the battle. also, if i remember correctly, abel collapsed AFTER albedo had taken out the zohar and it was probably albedo who made him collapse. he disabled the whole thing and that is how he was able to CONTROL its inner workings and take out the zohar and abel and dimitri, otherwise, didmitri, with all his oh so great power/{as you claim} didnt even have the power to STOP albedo from taking the components awayy?????? thats nonesence. tis the power of a testament and it was greater than the incomplete control over omega that dimitri had and hence my previous point of telos being stronger than both a testament and omega metpsychosis is also proven.
please stop resorting to fallacious debating tactics and personal insults.
please stop resorting to fallacious debating tactics and personal insults.
this from the guy who lies about everything ?
"it says chaos is the Messiah in the database"
but it doesn't.....
have some self-respect.
not necessarily. its the nature of the power. and again, omega metapsychosis did no t even HARNESS enough power that cud be compareable to space time anomoly.
of course it did
it just can CONTROL the power
stop making up things leon
yes, the reason she is superior to kosmos initially is due to her superior BODY which can interact directly with the umn.
huh
never said anywhere
stop making assumtpions based on nothing
no he moans.
no he screams
can't you get anything right ?
. he only screamed at that time
he screams a few times
also you are forgetting still that IF abel was able to harness the full power of the zohar, then albedo as a testament wud have had NO CHANCE against him but he was able to eaily force out yuriev, abel and the zohar with ease while marvelling at his own power. thus telling us that abel was not even close to using the FULL POWER of the zohar.
except Abel wasn't conscious and Yuriev never attacked
so.............stop making up things
hah. please provide evidence that chaos was born in this domain. as far as i know, he has been around longer than lost jerusalem era. he is the failsafe of the universe and definately not human. he posesses the anima which can destroy the universe and dimensionally shift the entire parts of unievre through space and time. it is never stated WHERE he is born or exactly WHO he is at his nature. he is called god in many places{and u can also confirm this on wiki if your that uncertain} and no1 knows who or what he is
unlike your other lies about what's in the Database this is actually in chaos' entry:
"He is the human incarnation of Anima, a power derived from the collective unconscious and present since the beginning of the universe in this dimension."
so there it is
we know what chaos is and we know he's from this lower domain
also, isnt that in contradiction with your statement made earlier where you said that udo has never been shown to be able to destroy a universe. if indeed he is stronger than yeshua, and yeshua can destroy the universe, than shudnt u-do be able to detsroy universes to atleats?
you're making this too easy
i said it had never been SHOWN
which it wasn't
now you are claiming a contradiction when i said U-DO was stronger than chaos ?
i didn't say U-DO can't destroy a universe just that he hadn't and it wasn't shown
honestly
just saying that your point of view is very inconcistant
no its not you just are making up contraidctions in your own mind
udo MAY be more powerful, but yeshua can destroy the universe and is sumwhat compareable to udo form what we have seen given his power of anima.
nothing in this dimension is close to U-DO in power
yes but u yourself said that abel being present made it more powerful than proto omega with the REAL zohar hence the comment about elos still remains a strong reason to beleive that she is stronger than omega itself. and i have already given u plenty of evidence concerning telos showing higher power than omega.
same T-elos taken down by just the party ?
pathetic
why do u make arguments havign nuthing to do with the actual argument beign made? the e.s. crafts were ALL torn apart by joshua and the party BEAT joshua
it tore out their Vessels of Anima which were made to be torn out it didn't defeat the E.S. in a fight
also never beat Joshua they beat Zarathustra
and Kevin was supppressing most of the system's energy at this point
and the fact remains that my argument remains and the beating of omega metapsychosis and telos further display of power make her more powerful than omega.
T-elos = owned by just the party
Omega = being infinitely powerful it was ready to keep fighting the party in their E.S.es
stop arguing with canon
the power was infinite = canonically stated
"there's no end to this" = directly stated
the party was nothing to Omega and only lasted because they drew on the exact same power as Omega itself
huh, erm no, that was never said ANYWHERE in the game. give me evidence otherwise. all we know is that zarathustra's operation has sumthing to do with chaos and mary's "sin" that is all,
sigh
you just don't know anything about Xenosaga
“Zarathustra is one of the systems created by people in ancient times. It was used to ascend to the realm of God. It was orchestrated by Mary and its power source was you, right Yeshua? But it didn’t turn out the way they expected. God did not permit mankind’s actions.
...U-DO is God himself.”
all zarathustra needs is the zohar and the power of anima. that is to ascend to the realm of god.
more stuff you're making up
FOR which he used abel. the reason for this was explained by wilhelm himself who stated that he wud SEAL the eyes of god{abel and abel's ark} with zarathustra and that is whyhe used abel. otherwise abel was not a necessity if one wishes to become god.
A. i know this i'm the one providing sources ya know
B. Yuriev planned to ascend to the higher domain with the Zohar and Abel and absorbing Zarathustra
since Anima and Animus failed miserably he chose a power source (the Zohar) stronger than Anima and a control module (Abel) stronger than Animus to harness the full power of the Zohar and then finally with Zarathustra he would ascend to the realm of God
Just played the DS game for the PSP and I found out some info...
Pyron was startin to "assimilate with the human world", in other words, he was gonna become the universe.
Before Demetri killed Pyron, it said in so many words, that Pyron was destined to die cuz Jedah or The Baby was gonna eat or put the human world in the Shintai or what ever it's called.
As I assumed long ago, if Pyron continues to eat he will get as big as the universe/become the universe and I think that would make him sorta defenseless against Jedah or his master, it didn't really go into detail about which it would be.
this from the guy who lies about everything ?
"it says chaos is the Messiah in the database"
but it doesn't.....
have some self-respect.
yes, he is the one who said the words which are the y data and the song of the nephilim and lemegeton. u might wanna try the self respect thing yourself
of course it did
it just can CONTROL the power
stop making up things leon
READ what i wrote. i said it posessed the power due to the zohar but couldnt HARNESS IT. harness=CONTROL genius. do not try to restate it using alternate words to make it seem like you are making a point different than my own. or do you really not understand english?
huh
never said anywhere
stop making assumtpions based on nothing
no he screams
can't you get anything right ?
no he moans generally
YouTube video
he screams a few times
not really, the only really specific ones i heard were in changed omega res novae
except Abel wasn't conscious and Yuriev never attacked
so.............stop making up things
first off, if abel was unconcious, your argument of him being the ultimate controller of the higher domain falls apart as he cud not even handle a battle against the e.s.s. secondly, i think he loses conciousness AFTER albedo comes in the picture{correct me if im wrong} so as i said before and you ignored, it was ALBEDO which caused him to lose conciousness. and again, are you suggecting that yuriev INTENTIOANALLY DIDNT ATTACK??!?!?!?!? that again is a very ridiculouis thing to say which makes no sense in the circumstances. e definately wud have but it was albedo's power stopping him from doing so. he cudnt stand upto albedo as a testament.
unlike your other lies about what's in the Database this is actually in chaos' entry:"He is the human incarnation of Anima, a power derived from the collective unconscious and present since the beginning of the universe in this dimension."
so there it is
we know what chaos is and we know he's from this lower domain
but his birth has never been elaborated upon. mary was born a human and after chaos {if it is assumed that he had existed since the dawn of universal time} and yet she has the power of the animus, that doesnt say anything about the actual origin of her does it now. this has been left vague enough that no1 can comment. and his entry changes lots of time
you're making this too easy
i said it had never been SHOWN
which it wasn't
now you are claiming a contradiction when i said U-DO was stronger than chaos ?
i didn't say U-DO can't destroy a universe just that he hadn't and it wasn't shown
honestly
yes, but it was easily implied and the visions of albedo and yuriev hinted at it. why then did you go against what i said before then. and again, most people are of the oppinion that chaos is a different TYPE of god than chaos{the relationship between the two again has not been elaborated upon} and maybe compareable in power.
no its not you just are making up contraidctions in your own mind
no i have already elaborated upon the contradiction and you have not given a satisfactory enough reply
nothing in this dimension is close to U-DO in power
it is implied but its sumwhat inconcistant. since chaos and wilhelm have been seen to be compareable as has zarathustra. the full power of the omega system was also said to be able to challenge god. im assuming god means u-do int he above entries so....
same T-elos taken down by just the party ?
pathetic
no, same telos taken down by the spirit of mary with the animus, i have already stated that she is stronger than omega.
it tore out their Vessels of Anima which were made to be torn out it didn't defeat the E.S. in a fight
also never beat Joshua they beat Zarathustra
and Kevin was supppressing most of the system's energy at this point
T-elos = owned by just the party
Omega = being infinitely powerful it was ready to keep fighting the party in their E.S.es
stop arguing with canon
the power was infinite = canonically stated
"there's no end to this" = directly stated
the party was nothing to Omega and only lasted because they drew on the exact same power as Omega itself
telos=owned by the spirit of mary with animus.
omega=owned by albedo as testament. and other testaments were owned by the party. many things are said to be infinite, like omega, zarathustra, anima, udo, wills of the universe umn etc etc. doesnt mean they are all the same. and are you implying that the limited number of e/s s had infinite power?!?!?!?!?!!?
sigh
you just don't know anything about Xenosaga“Zarathustra is one of the systems created by people in ancient times. It was used to ascend to the realm of God. It was orchestrated by Mary and its power source was you, right Yeshua? But it didn’t turn out the way they expected. God did not permit mankind’s actions.
...U-DO is God himself.”
yes, but it is never shown what actually happened.
more stuff you're making upA. i know this i'm the one providing sources ya know
B. Yuriev planned to ascend to the higher domain with the Zohar and Abel and absorbing Zarathustra
since Anima and Animus failed miserably he chose a power source (the Zohar) stronger than Anima and a control module (Abel) stronger than Animus to harness the full power of the Zohar and then finally with Zarathustra he would ascend to the realm of God
zarathustra had the indentation in the middle with the shape of the zohar to begin with. this was made by the ancient people of the TIME and assumingly used by chaos and mary even then. it wasnt sumthing INTRODUCED later. we do not know if anima and animus FAILED MISERABLY, since that part of the plo was never elaborated upon, just that it didnt succeed for whatever reason.
the zohar is not stronger than the anima, and if it were, than why wud wilhelm require all the vessels of anima tooo to power zarathustra. he was planning to SEAL away abel and the ark to BLIND god as he says himself. abel passed out{due to albedo OR the omega zohar whiehever one u thing doesnt matter} from omega, what makes u think he wud be a better controller than the universal animus????? uriev was using abel to control omega that is all. he didnt know who abel was, nor did he know about the vessels of anima and the power of anima or animus and the history of xarathustra{otherwise why wud only wilhelm be collecting the vesssels of anima and uriev not know a thing abou them??}
as i said, your argument is very inconcistant.
yes, he is the one who said the words which are the y data and the song of the nephilim and lemegeton. u might wanna try the self respect thing yourself
you are extremely obtuse
not only have I been the one to provide all the sources all the sources i've provided SAY he was the one who spoke the words
unfortunately that doesn't mean jack shit because Wilhelm himself states the Messiah didn't speak those words but chaos did
first off, if abel was unconcious, your argument of him being the ultimate controller of the higher domain falls apart as he cud not even handle a battle against the e.s.s
um yes he can
that's why he was fully conscious and moving for quite a while after the fight had stopped
there's no reason given whY Abel collapsed
don't make up things
secondly, i think he loses conciousness AFTER albedo comes in the picture{correct me if im wrong} so as i said before and you ignored, it was ALBEDO which caused him to lose conciousness.
no it wasn't
because Albedo never did anything at this point he arrived and talked and took off his mask
so no one said Albedo did it
what we see on the screen does not hint at Albedo doing something
so.....we are left to speculate
and again, are you suggecting that yuriev INTENTIOANALLY DIDNT ATTACK??!?!?!?!?
yes
it's an RPG
dialog between villains and other characters before fighting is nothing unusual
e definately wud have but it was albedo's power stopping him from doing so. he cudnt stand upto albedo as a testament.
please stop making assumtpions
Albedo never overpowered Yuriev
not even close
yes, but it was easily implied and the visions of albedo and yuriev hinted at it.
except it wasn't U-Do who did it
STOP ARGUING WITH OFFICIAL CANON
no, same telos taken down by the spirit of mary with the animus, i have already stated that she is stronger than omega.
no she's not
because nothing ever overpowered Omega
not Albedo who did nothing to Abel and simply BFR'ed the power and did NOT beat it
not the party who admitted there was no end to the fight with Yuriev and Omega
so.....stop making up statements like that
no, it tore apart the es's limb from limb which is why it gained the different parts of the es later in the final fight. also, you are wrong, the vessels were taken out telekenetically by wilhelm. also, the one in the end was joshua FUSED with zarathustra and using the limbs and wings of other es's.
nope as specifically cited in the OFFICIAL guide
Second, they are to obtain the necessary Anima for Eternal Recurrence. "For that reason, Wilhelm gave the ability to control the Anima to Testament. From this, Testament became able to change the Anima from a power for disperal into a power for convergence. This very "Anima for the sake of convergence" is the Anima that is necessary for Eternal Recurrence."
and Wilhelm took out Vessels from unmanned E.S.es so not like they could defend themselves
omega=owned by albedo as testament
no he wasn't
stop making up things
and are you implying that the limited number of e/s s had infinite power?!?!?!?!?!!?
nope that's why they couldn't win against something with truly infinite power
and neither could T-elos
zarathustra had the indentation in the middle with the shape of the zohar to begin with
who cares ?
they didn't use the Zohar in the past they used chaos
the zohar is not stronger than the anima,
yes it is
it's U-DO's power and U-DO, being from a higher domain, is stronger than anything in the lower universe
and if it were, than why wud wilhelm require all the vessels of anima tooo to power zarathustra.
because he needed a lot of things
like Mary and Animus
there's a lot to Eternal Recorruence that requires more than simply power
abel passed out{due to albedo OR the omega zohar whiehever one u thing doesnt matter}
Albedo did nothing to make Abel collapse
unless you want to assume based on no visible or auditory evidence
from omega, what makes u think he wud be a better controller than the universal animus?????
because he's the one being who can perfectly controla nd harness the power of the Zohar
uriev was using abel to control omega that is all. he didnt know who abel was,
he sure didnt' but he knew enough
he knew that A) Zohar was infinite
B) Abel was essential for controlling Omega and acting as a mediator to stabilize and fully harness the Zohar Waves
that's all that he needed to know as the Zohar and Abel are stronger than Anima and Animus
Originally posted by leonheartmm
^i dont think a man who claims that an omnipotent god himself{among other various multiversal entities} can kill kain , can presume to pass such judgements on me even though ive shown i know nothing of kain anyway, but their multversal enitties!!!!!! zomg they cant be deniedz!!
you are extremely obtuse
not only have I been the one to provide all the sources all the sources i've provided SAY he was the one who spoke the words
unfortunately that doesn't mean jack shit because Wilhelm himself states the Messiah didn't speak those words but chaos did
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_%28Xenosaga%29 . the messiah was always presumed to be sum1 other than chaos but overtime the series does establish that chaos is probably infact the messiah. even though many contradictions still remain.
um yes he can
that's why he was fully conscious and moving for quite a while after the fight had stopped
there's no reason given whY Abel collapsed
don't make up things
yes it is obvious, the same reason the zohar came out of omega and dimitri's body fell out from omega and the unconcious abel came out of omega{both through phsing out phsyically} and both abel and the zohar were teleported to michtam. it was al ALBEDO'S doing. it is not my problem that you can not understand anything but the most blunt of things.
no it wasn't
because Albedo never did anything at this point he arrived and talked and took off his mask
so no one said Albedo did it
what we see on the screen does not hint at Albedo doing something
so.....we are left to speculate
yes albedo did it. albedo does it mentally, he is the testament and the wiever of the eternal circle zarathustra. or are you suggecting that abel lost conciousness for no reas and phased out along with the zohar and both were teleported randomly to michtam while dimitri was also expeslled from omega without putting up any fight just RANDOMLY ?!?!?!?!?! puhklease
yes
it's an RPG
dialog between villains and other characters before fighting is nothing unusual
being an rpg and talking has nothing to do with it. abel wudnt suddenly collapse for no reason and the zohar wudnt just come out and dimitre , after boasting the inability to be defeated wont just be ejected and fall like a wreck unless it was for albedo's power. albedo himself told the others not to undeestimate his power. it is clearly implied by everything here that it was all albedo's doing! if you are blind enough to not see than it isnt my problem as i said.
please stop making assumtpions
Albedo never overpowered Yuriev
not even close
yes he did.
except it wasn't U-Do who did it
STOP ARGUING WITH OFFICIAL CANON
it ISNT OFFICIAL CANNON. the INGAME ENCYCLOPEDIA AND SCENES ARE OFFICIAL CANNON. it has about as much relevance as the marvel handbook{i.e. not very much compared to the variety and complexity of things actually happening in the media itself} . u-do didnt DO it, but it wud have done it. that is the reason for the fear of udo.
no she's not
because nothing ever overpowered Omega
not Albedo who did nothing to Abel and simply BFR'ed the power and did NOT beat it
not the party who admitted there was no end to the fight with Yuriev and Omega
so.....stop making up statements like that
and again we are back to the same thing, for reasons unknown, abel collapses and is teleported to michtam,. the zohar just HAPPENS to leave omega and be teleported and dimitri who was just boasting of infinite power just HAPPENS to be expelled from omega and fall like a wreck{right AFTER albedo says that that wasnt power meant for humans to control}. are you STUPID OR WHAT?!?!!?
nope as specifically cited in the OFFICIAL guideSecond, they are to obtain the necessary Anima for Eternal Recurrence. "For that reason, Wilhelm gave the ability to control the Anima to Testament. From this, Testament became able to change the Anima from a power for disperal into a power for convergence. This very "Anima for the sake of convergence" is the Anima that is necessary for Eternal Recurrence."
and Wilhelm took out Vessels from unmanned E.S.es so not like they could defend themselves
no ,my source is more official than yours. its ingame. as i said, those sources as you cite have about as much relevance as the marvel handbook. testaments can only HARNESS anima, not control its full power. and what you are stating has little to do with the line of argument. the power of the testaments comes from wilhelm himself and the compass of order and chaos. and even withou vessels, the durability problem remains. my initial point stands.
no he wasn't
stop making up things
nope that's why they couldn't win against something with truly infinite power
and neither could T-elos
the zohar is NEARLY infinite. omega ISNT just like proto omega WASNT. it wasnt harnessing the full power opf the zohar. you have lost this point again. telos wudnt win aginst the FULL POWER of the zohar but she wud win against OMEGA which WASNT using the full power. also remember,that the zohar is a DOORWAY to infinite power. NOT infinite power in itself. its like having a small hole into an ocean of infinite volume of water. the amount of water coming from that hole is POTENTIALLY infinite but the hole itself isnt infinite water.
who cares ?
they didn't use the Zohar in the past they used chaos
the past is reasonably indescribed to make a statement like that completely inappropriate. you dont KNOW. it was never SAID. the indentions for the zohar existed since that time so it is just as likely that the y used the zohar too.
yes it is
it's U-DO's power and U-DO, being from a higher domain, is stronger than anything in the lower universe
maybe, but as u said, no final evidence is given. chaos may be compareable in sum ways. since the anima and zohar played equal roles physically in zarathustra.
because he needed a lot of things
like Mary and Animus
there's a lot to Eternal Recorruence that requires more than simply power
he needed mary's animuas to release the poweres of the SEALED anima vessels{which wasnt necessary the first time zarathuystra was used as chaos had his power at the time}. as for abel and abel's ark, here
Wilhelm: Everything that makes up this universe is connected by the
collective subconscious. "Redoing" everything from nothing
by acting upon that collective subconscious, and sending
everything into the flow of imaginary time. This is the
role I gave to the eternal circle, Zarathustra. U-DO is God
himself. The "two Abels" exist as U-DO's observational
terminals for this lower domain. In order to assure the
continuation of our world, we must seal them away. We will
cover the eyes of God, remove His influence from this
world, and affect the recurrence of wills through
Zarathustra. And that is precisely the reason why I exist.
Shion, you are the Maiden. When you use your Key, Mary can
lead the wills from throughout the entire universe to
Zarathustra.
Albedo did nothing to make Abel collapse
unless you want to assume based on no visible or auditory evidence
yes he did, reade what is said before. the timing is too perfect otherwise.
because he's the one being who can perfectly controla nd harness the power of the Zohar
no no, he is the only one they cud FIND who cud control it without going INSANE. huge difference. he isnt the PERFECT controller, just the best they had. nephilim cud do the job just as well but she didnt physically exist. mary and chaos wud be better as wud wilhelm as they can actually STAND UPTO and oppose partially, the power of udo and control it. abel isnt a PERFECT controller. also, mary is a better controller of anima then abel wud be because of her love and bond with chaos apparently. which is why she became the animus is the first place.
he sure didnt' but he knew enough
he knew that A) Zohar was infinite
B) Abel was essential for controlling Omega and acting as a mediator to stabilize and fully harness the Zohar Wavesthat's all that he needed to know as the Zohar and Abel are stronger than Anima and Animus
no evidence. and this has little to do with the line of argumentations. as i have given the reference before,. the only reason WILHELM used abel was because he wanted to SEAL THE EYES OF GOD away with the eternal recurrance. that is also why he orchestrated the appearance of abel's ark in real space and didnt stop uriev. it is only shown that in the lower domain, anima is equal to te higher dimensional energy. just like the vessels are required along with te zohar as artifacts to power zarathustra. in actually whether udo is more powerful than chaos is afair assumption, but from what is shown in the lower domain, they are equal there.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
your wiki link AGREES WITH ME
"Much of chaos' history is clouded, but it is known that 6,000 years ago, he was one of the disciples of a man that Ormus would come to worship as their Lord and Messiah. During this time, chaos was still known as Yeshua, and performed miracles in that man's place"
and this IS SUPPORTED BY THE GAME AND OFFICIAL GUIDES
thanks for proving my point even more
yes it is obvious, the same reason the zohar came out of omega and dimitri's body fell out from omega and the unconcious abel came out of omega{both through phsing out phsyically} and both abel and the zohar were teleported to michtam. it was al ALBEDO'S doing. it is not my problem that you can not understand anything but the most blunt of things.
no you liar Abel collapsed long before Albedo visibly teleported the Zohar away
notice Albedo waving his hand ?
yeah...that means he's doing something
but he did nothing when Abel collapsed
yes albedo did it. albedo does it mentally, he is the testament and the wiever of the eternal circle zarathustra. or are you suggecting that abel lost conciousness for no reas and phased out along with the zohar and both were teleported randomly to michtam while dimitri was also expeslled from omega without putting up any fight just RANDOMLY ?!?!?!?!?! puhklease
loL Albedo did it mentally
STOP MAKING UP SHIT
I'd LOVE you to prove Albedo made Abel fall unconscious
come on
find me one visual hint or statement that it was Albedo who made Abel collapse
i'll be waiting
it ISNT OFFICIAL CANNON. the INGAME ENCYCLOPEDIA AND SCENES ARE OFFICIAL CANNON. it has about as much relevance as the marvel handbook{i.e. not very much compared to the variety and complexity of things actually happening in the media itself}
no
it has about as much relevance as the Xenogears Perfect Guide
which is to say it is ABSOLUTE CANON
u-do didnt DO it, but it wud have done it. that is the reason for the fear of udo.
no it's not
stop arguing with OFFICIAL CANON
and again we are back to the same thing, for reasons unknown, abel collapses and is teleported to michtam,. the zohar just HAPPENS to leave omega and be teleported and dimitri who was just boasting of infinite power just HAPPENS to be expelled from omega and fall like a wreck{right AFTER albedo says that that wasnt power meant for humans to control}. are you STUPID OR WHAT?!?!!?
Abel collapsed LONG before Albedo teleported the Zohar away
we SEE Albedo do this
Albedo does NOTHING when Abel collapses
the zohar is NEARLY infinite
nope its infinite
omega ISNT just like proto omega WASNT. it wasnt harnessing the full power opf the zohar.
yes it is
stop arguing with what is flatly stated in game
n00b
you have lost this point again. telos wudnt win aginst the FULL POWER of the zohar but she wud win against OMEGA which WASNT using the full power. also remember,that the zohar is a DOORWAY to infinite power. NOT infinite power in itself.
yep and the one who can perfectly control that power is Omega's pilot
thus giving Omega the full infinite power of the Zohar
you are seriously thinking an avatar of U-DO and U-DO's energy can be overcome by T-elos
its like having a small hole into an ocean of infinite volume of water. the amount of water coming from that hole is POTENTIALLY infinite but the hole itself isnt infinite water.
actually it's quite infinite
Proto Omega could only draw a limited amount of higher dimensional power
Abel, with an Emulator, could draw MORE higher dimensional power than Proto Omega with the Original
Abel has the key to a small door and could fully open it
Proto Omega cracked open a huge door but couldn't fully open it
nephilim cud do the job just as well but she didnt physically exist.
you really DON'T know anything about Xenosaga do you ?
Nephilim was the first one to vanish when they tried linking her with the Zohar
mary and chaos wud be better as wud
no they wouldn't
they are pathetic lower-dimensional creatures
they can't come close to harnessing infinite power
the power of udo and control it. abel isnt a PERFECT controller. also, mary is a better controller of anima then abel wud be because of her love and bond with chaos apparently. which is why she became the animus is the first place.
she didn't love chaos
she loved the Messiah/Jesus
and she is chaos' antithesis
they cancel each other out
the only reason WILHELM used abel was because he wanted to SEAL THE EYES OF GOD away with the eternal recurrance
so ?
it doesn't matter
Wilhelm didn't want to use Zarathustra to ascend to the higher dimension so he didn't need a control device like Abel
that is also why he orchestrated the appearance of abel's ark in real space and didnt stop uriev
*remembers Wilhelm sending Albedo to kill Yuriev and take away his power*
sure he didn't stop him
it is only shown that in the lower domain, anima is equal to te higher dimensional energy
no it's not
just like the vessels are required along with te zohar as artifacts to power zarathustra
power it to reset the universe back to its origin and lead all the consciousness in the universe backt here as well
yeah you need more than just power to do this so....
in actually whether udo is more powerful than chaos is afair assumption, but from what is shown in the lower domain, they are equal there.
not even close
the Zohar has nearly destroyed the universe several times
and EVERYTHING from the higher domain is stronger than anything in the lower universe
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAyour wiki link AGREES WITH ME
"Much of chaos' history is clouded, but it is known that 6,000 years ago, he was one of the disciples of a man that Ormus would come to worship as their Lord and Messiah. During this time, chaos was still known as Yeshua, and performed miracles in that man's place"and this IS SUPPORTED BY THE GAME AND OFFICIAL GUIDES
thanks for proving my point even more
you IDIOT!!!! lmao, now i know ur intentionally misreading and misrepresenting. you didnt READ the entire thing did you? because if youhad, it wud have proven my point. here let me help your manipulative little ass.
"""""In Episode II, Episode III, Pied Piper, and Xenosaga I&II, he is referred to as Yeshua, which is said to have been the Aramaic name for Jesus of Nazareth (Jesus' mothertongue was most likely Aramaic). It is also a shortened form of Yehoshua. The implications of chaos having some "divine" significance are scattered all throughout Xenosaga. The Anima Vessels, which are half of chaos, are also referred to as the "body of God." The database also calls chaos' power the "power of God." . """""
"""""Much of chaos' history is clouded, but it is known that 6,000 years ago, he was one of the disciples of a man that Ormus would come to worship as their Lord and Messiah. During this time, chaos was still known as Yeshua, and performed miracles in that man's place. Exactly what happened during this time period and why it happened, is unknown. However, there may be clues in Nephilim's mention of chaos teaching humanity long ago, and the reaction of Anima to the scriptures about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (The suggestion of chaos as Jesus, as well as a traditional Jesus figure, seem to be yet another of Xenosaga's Gnostic touches. In Gnosticism, Jesus is actually two separate beings, a divine aeon Jesus, and a human Jesus.) Wilhelm and the database also state that chaos had died, at least physically, during this era, and had left behind the "Word of Yeshua", also known as Lemegeton.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
READ THAT U SILLY MAN!!!!! it isnt my fault that you are not aware of gnostic and christian and judaic mythology and can not understand the significance of the reference give. you knowingly misquoted and left out things. so i suppose im not the one lying here but YOU are.
no you liar Abel collapsed long before Albedo visibly teleported the Zohar away
notice Albedo waving his hand ?
yeah...that means he's doing something
but he did nothing when Abel collapsed
hehe, liar calling sum1 else a liar is a lie. albedo waved his hand when the actual teleportation took place. he didnt do ANTYHING when the unconcious abel was phased out and the zohar was phased out and dimitri was ejected. OH i know, they all just happened for NO REASON AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! blagh what a fool. albedo WAS the one who made abel go unconcious.
loL Albedo did it mentally
STOP MAKING UP SHIT
I'd LOVE you to prove Albedo made Abel fall unconscious
come on
find me one visual hint or statement that it was Albedo who made Abel collapse
i'll be waiting
no
it has about as much relevance as the Xenogears Perfect Guide
which is to say it is ABSOLUTE CANON
no, xenogears perfect guide was not necessarily written by the story board for the actual game or all of its memebers. it was prolly{as is the thign with such guides} written by other departments in namco responsible for popularising the mythology of the game and is their interpretation. the ingame guide however is ABSOLUTE CANNON as it is writtten by the same developmental team. just like different authors in comics can make the phoenix force either lose to xorn or control the multiverse, similarly different people in namco can have different poijnts of view, but what will always remain true cannon is the original author{aka in game guide}
no it's not
stop arguing with OFFICIAL CANON
it isnt official cannon, its an outside source as i explained before. the ingame guide and quotes are official cannon.
Abel collapsed LONG before Albedo teleported the Zohar away
we SEE Albedo do this
Albedo does NOTHING when Abel collapses
no, it was a little while before, abel was made to collapse by albedo to stop dimitri from using omega{remember that even before teleporting the zohar away, albedo says "your way over your head old man, this power is not sumthing a human can control". easily giving the indication that it was HE who made abel go unconcious . also, if your such a genius why dont YOU give me a reason why abel collapsed?!?!? and please dont say that it had no reason, the game developers re not that lame.
nope its infinite
it said in the e.s entry or perhaps the vessel of anim entry that the e.s can call on the NEARLY infinite power of the zohar.
yes it is
stop arguing with what is flatly stated in game
n00b
no, it is just said that it is harnessing the pwer o the original zohar. nuthign about complete power. the fact that albedo says what he says about humans beign unable to control that power is proof enought that your wrong.
yep and the one who can perfectly control that power is Omega's pilot
thus giving Omega the full infinite power of the Zohar
you are seriously thinking an avatar of U-DO and U-DO's energy can be overcome by T-elos
not perfectly, just BARELY. if omega had infinite power, than it wud have had 100% of the power of UDO. do you even know how ridiculous that sounds?! it was nowhere near 100%. it ws still drawing finite power from the doorway from udo. abel is not an AVATAR of udo,. it is just an OBSERVATIONAL TERMINAL of udo. avatar = human incarnation, HUAGE difference from just an observational terminal.
actually it's quite infinite
Proto Omega could only draw a limited amount of higher dimensional power
Abel, with an Emulator, could draw MORE higher dimensional power than Proto Omega with the Original
Abel has the key to a small door and could fully open it
Proto Omega cracked open a huge door but couldn't fully open it
no, he cudnt fully open it, he cud only work it BETTER than patriarch sergius. he was an INTERFACE. it was infact yuriev's will that was actually drawing out the power and why albedo said what he said. as it was yuriev;s entry into omega res novae which turned it into metapsychosis.
you really DON'T know anything about Xenosaga do you ?Nephilim was the first one to vanish when they tried linking her with the Zohar
lol. apparently you do not. nephilim was the first human to make CONTACT with udo. and accept udo as opposed to be afraid of it. as such, she is perfectly suited for a task if she had a body{as she was erfectly suited to guiding the wills of the gnosis who rejected the world at zarathustra}. also, she is very similar or equal to abel, the two share a cause and affect relationship as abel appeared exactly when she disappeared and both were equally functional in guiding the wills of the gnosis. anything abel can do, she can do too, if she had a real space body.
no they wouldn't
they are pathetic lower-dimensional creatures
they can't come close to harnessing infinite power
nephilim is also a lower dimensional being and yet she is equal to abel. chaos's power is nearly if not completely infinite, that is why it can destroy all of creation. he is more important and powerful than the eyes of god or nephilim. abel is just an OBSERVATIONAL TERMINAL of udo, NOT udo himself.
she didn't love chaos
she loved the Messiah/Jesus
and she is chaos' antithesis
they cancel each other out
chaos has died once before. she was crying when he died first in shion's flashback. she died herself trying to seperate the anima from yeshua so that he and the universe cud live longer, seems like love to me. chaos is most probably the messiah, deal with it. they dont cancel each other out, one is power, the other is will, both are needed. its like lucifer and michal from vertigo. one creates from nuthing, and one shapes and controls that creation.
so ?
it doesn't matter
Wilhelm didn't want to use Zarathustra to ascend to the higher dimension so he didn't need a control device like Abel
lol, no, abel was never the control device for zarathustra for wilhelm or dimitri, he was just used in zarathustra by wilhelm to SEAL THE EYES OF GOD.
*remembers Wilhelm sending Albedo to kill Yuriev and take away his power*
sure he didn't stop him
sigh., u really are foolish. he first LET yuriev pursue his ambition and watched, only in the END did he send his testament to take away the zohar and abel. he needed those events to awaken the vessels of anima. he played uriev.
no it's not
yes it is, zarathustra uses both. nuthing says what is greater in the lwoer domain. do remember that the zohar isnt 100% the power of udo.
power it to reset the universe back to its origin and lead all the consciousness in the universe backt here as well
yeah you need more than just power to do this so....
not even close
the Zohar has nearly destroyed the universe several times
and EVERYTHING from the higher domain is stronger than anything in the lower universe
errrrr, when has the zohar nearly destroyed the universe?????????? there is only ONE thing in the higher domain, and that is udo. only a FINITE amount of his power leaks from the zohar into the lower domain. the zohar is a doorway, not udo himself.
as far as i can remember it was always chaos's anima destroyuing the universe at an inflated pace. when it was seperated and the artifacts of god created from it, the lemegeton PROGRAM nearly destroyed the universe. then abel's ark nearly destoyed a lot of the universe, then zarathustra with BOTH anima and the zohar and joshua nearly destoyed the universe. i cant really see anywhere where the zohar has nearly destroyed creation, while ANIMA nearly always HAS.
please stop arguing uselessly.