Originally posted by NateGreySummers
Right, because simply saying that canon says such and such without showing that canon says such and such proves anything. 🙄Nice try, but you failed miserably. Try again.
Except we've embarassed you ever since you first came here with logic, canon sources, the actual TEXT. You make an even bigger fool out of yourself when you try to ignore them or claim they don't exist. This is why you've come back to this forum after being banned 20+ times.
Originally posted by NateGreySummers
Ok big guy. You want the support to end? Defeat one of my arguments. I'll quit supporting Bane as soon you prove me wrong on anything. Hey, I'll even let you read through my post count and pick the most easily refutable thing I've ever said. Come on big boy, let's do this.
You have to win an argument before you can call the trash you write "arguments". Lying to yourself hasn't helped you thus far, don't know why you persist.
Originally posted by NateGreySummers
Given that the era was the most warlike that there's ever been shown in SW canon, it would be silly to think that the Brotherhood was anything but a relatively powerful order of force users, and even if that wasn't the case, the sheer number (hundreds) of force users within the Order would suggest that Bane's strength in the force - being far greater than that of the order in question - would be titanic.
That would require subscribing to the logic that the strength of Force users are dependent on the amount of conflict created during a set time period? While I could see that logic working for technology, that line of thought does not prove that the Brotherhood were anything special.
Likewise, didn't Luke Skywalker manhandle a Force-user whose powers were enhanced by the combined energies of the Colony? Hell, Nebaris, according to your own list Bane ranks below Skywalker.
Excuse the double post, in advance. 😉
Originally posted by NateGreySummers
Right, because simply saying that canon says such and such without showing that canon says such and such proves anything. 🙄Nice try, but you failed miserably. Try again.
Canon isn't bound by your rules, Nebaris. LFL doesn't have to show Darth Sidious performing uberfeat after uberfeat of Force displays to cement his status as the most powerful Sith Lord in history; the statement has been made multiple times in multiple sources. In fact, I'd encourage you to find any source that explicitly names a Sith Lord -- other than Sidious -- as the strongest ever. You won't find one.
Though, I will point out that Sidious does have numerous feats that outstrip those of other Sith (especially the Ancient Sith, who relied on Force magic and augmentation in the form of arcana to assist them). Hell, according to the Dark Empire Sourcebook -- Palpatine's Force Storms "might be the most destructive Force power known" and not only can they "devour fleets" but also "rip the surfaces off worlds" -- which Bane relied on the aforementioned Brotherhood to do.
When you bring up a notable point, sport, we'll talk. 😉
You know that Path of Destruction says that the darkside is stretched to thin due to the numbers of sith. Bane even says that their to many weak in the dark side. So with the exceptions of Bane and probably Kaism who else in the brotherhood could hold a candle to people of the likes of Windu,Yoda,etc.
Originally posted by NateGreySummersFar faster than the eyes of a force user could follow? A force user of Kas'im's calibre? Where exactly is this stated or shown?
This is, at best, an unsupported assumption.
LMAO. I'll concede every argument I've ever made if you can point out where this is ever stated or shown.
As an overall swordsman (including force ability and physical attributes as well as technique)? Not only completely unsupported, but unsupportable when using canon evidence. Purely technical ability? Laughable given Luke's mostly self trained and was only ever properly trained in a rushed manner at numerous different points of time.
After going to Dxun, and uncovering "astonishing new knowledge and power -- power thatwillaltere[d] him in ways he could never have imagined..."
Right. I forgot that Bane no longer had the ability to block lightning with his saber. My bad.
Didn't say it wasn't, but it's a minuscule target in comparison to Luke's entire body, and means that Bane can nearly fully focus on his offense.
Hardly. There's no feat of Luke's that "drawfs" the way in which Bane simply absorbs the BoD Masters' lightning (was powerful enough to consume "anything and everything in its path" and would have eventually destroyed Ruusan if the Sith lords kept the ritual going, keeps full control over it, and directs it onto the Forest World that is Ruusan. Nor is Luke ever depicted to have strength in the force on the level of Bane's: the same level of force strength that far eclipsed the entire BoD's. [/B]
Bane can't compare to Luke in the Force. Period.
Oh, and when did Bane outmatch all the BoD at once? Right, he didn't...they GAVE themselves to him for the Ritual and pulled back out of fear.
Bane directed their power, he didn't fully control it.
and, oh yeah, Lue has been stated as the most powerful force user....ever. And by Lucas to have the potential to become what Anakin could not.
Just accept Bane isn't the best
Originally posted by Sylar
And to mention the fact that the BOD jedi and sith are nothing more than bantha fodder whom were easily killed by children who swung lightsabers like monkeys.
No, it was the non force sensitive minions of the BoD "whom were easily killed by children who swung lightsabers like monkeys." Know what you're talking about, moron.
They suck ass period, and bane was more powerful than a bunch of weaklings not even a quarter of vaders caliber.
You've yet to support the idea that the BoD were in any way less powerful than an average order of force users, and still haven't managed to work out that the sheer number of force users would mean that the statement speaks volumes even if the order were a weak one.
[qoute]No, I'm just someone not so easily swayed by worthless feats such as Luke moving so quickly that he might as well have been wielding ten or twenty lightsabers; or destroying a small army of non force sensitive Yuuzhan Vong. In a world where Jedi are described as one man armies (by GL himself), where padawans can move at invisible speeds (Obi-Wan in TPM) and where low rate Sith like Maul can single handedly demolish the most powerful crime syndicate in the Galaxy, feats such as those mentioned really don't mean anything. Not to mention that he was in a force meld with Jacen and Jaina when he does both feats anyway.
Bane on the other hand is able to move at speeds far too great for the eyes of force sensitives to see, so fast that time even appeared to have stopped for them, and was able to absolutely dominate Kas'im in a duel; the same Kas'im who mastered all seven forms and spent years perfecting them, and who was stated as being the greatest technical swordsman at the time, and possibly the greatest ever, and this is a Bane who was yet to grow as powerful as he does in Ro2, and before acquiring the orbalisk armour.
In the force battle, Luke probably has him beat, but hardly by much given Bane' strength in the force and achieved feats.[/quote]
Thank the good Lord Lucifer, someone who agree's with me.
As you've probably guessed I don't much care for Luke either. Too nice.
I've just been scared of saying it knowing the huge arse-raping i'd get from Syler etc.
Originally posted by FootGarmentNo, it was the non force sensitive minions of the BoD "whom were easily killed by children who swung lightsabers like monkeys." Know what you're talking about, moron.
You've yet to support the idea that the BoD were in any way less powerful than an average order of force users, and still haven't managed to work out that the sheer number of force users would mean that the statement speaks volumes even if the order were a weak one. [/B]
Hi Noobaris, you and your sock exodus are going to get banned.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Try Jacen and Jaina's caliber, or Corran Horn's, or Leia Organa
Right, listing names is fun and all, I love doing it too, but you still haven't shown exactly where Luke's said to move far faster than the eyes of the above individuals could see.
Read Ro2, mate? Apparently, they can SEE him as they block his attacks
Right. For someone who likes to think that he knows his stuff when it comes to Star Wars, you've really managed to miss out on one key detail here Lightsnake. Force user don't rely on their eyesight to defend themselves against attacks. They rely on there force sense and precognition. The fact that they could block Bane's attacks doesn't mean that they can actually visibly see him.
and Zannah SEES what he does.
Fancy that
I really fail to see where it's stated that Zannah was able to visibly see Bane whilst he was fighting (primary reason being its not actually there in the passage). Post a quote and page number this time, otherwise don't bother replying.
His duel with Bane. His separating his saber, Bane realizing Kas'im was drawing him back, Kas'im's feral grin, Bane realizing the REAL reason he taught Jar'Kai was flawed?
I'm sorry, but don't be ridiculous. Switching to Jar'Kai, his less practised form, was a move out of desperation. Kas'im did it because he knew that Bane would have defeated him if he had stuck with his saber staff. The cunning smile was indicative of the fact that Kas'im had always claimed that the Jar'Kai system was flawed so as to always be in an advantageous position over his apprentices. That's it, and that's all. You make it sound like Kas'im went easy on Bane to draw him into a false sense of security, and that the plan was always to switch to his dual sabers. Again, sorry, but you're being ridiculous. Kas'im was trying to kill Bane during the part of their fight where he wielded his saber staff. The passage even states that he hoped to end their battle within the first pass. Kas'im was not 'feigning weakness.' He was going full out throughout.
Bane was trained for a grand total of a couple of years. Luke had decades to catch up
Irrelevant misdirection.
We're not talking about Bane here, we're talking about the guy who he beat: Kas'im, and we're arguing about Luke's technical ability in comparison. I never claimed that Bane was anything special in saber technique, because he probably wasn't, so forming a comparison between his training and Luke's is beyond silly, and draws the topic away from the current argument. The point is, as an overall duelist, he clearly is something special, given how he was able to defeat Kas'im, who as far as technique goes, is leagues beyond Luke, and who wasn't too shoddy when it came to force or physical abilities either.
Yes, 'alter' him...with the orbalisks. That leave him in chronic agony, that might even kill him...
Yeah, lovely.
What are you talking about? Since when is "power" referring to his living armour? It's quite clearly referring to the power surge he goes through after the extra knowledge he receives. One wouldn't refer to such a thing as "power."
Like he did when his own got blasted back at him.
Firstly, Bane's lightning =/= Luke's. Given Bane's comparable strength, and the fact that his lightning is one of his primary attacks, whereas Luke's emerald lightning is used only on a small number of occasions, I doubt Luke's refinement of the ability is even approaching the level of Bane's. Not to mention that Bane'd hardly be best prepared to block it whilst focusing on generating the very attack he'd be trying to block anyway.
Or how Luke isn't powerful enough to overcome that.
Again, logic points to Luke's refinement of the attack being on a far lower level than Bane's, and given that you haven't even managed to support Luke being more adept with the force than Bane, to think that one of his less used abilities would overpower a fully prepared Darth Bane is foolish.
It also means that Luke has a target he can go for anyways and Bane's fighting style is to eschew personal safety entirely.
Sure it is, but in respect to his protected body. He's not going to be leaving his head unprotected any time soon.
And given that Luke is faster and more skilled...
Completely unsupported. Get back to me when Luke can move so fast that it seems like time stops for every force user around him.
Like tearing out an SDS's engine, wedging himself in the heart of the force, destroyed an army of Yuuzhan Vong, defeated Darth Caedus, destroying an army of battle droids with a gesture, bringing down an AT AT with the force, shattering a massive castle with the Force with zero effort, immobilizing a full Sith Lord with zero effort..
Bane can't compare to Luke in the Force. Period.
Right, because quantity is greater than quality! 👆
All you've managed to do is list as many feats as you can for Luke. Fact remains, nothing he's ever done drawfs Bane's ability to absorb energy powerful enough to destroy an entire planet, control it, and redirect it onto the entire planet. He has a few feats that even compare at best.
Oh, and when did Bane outmatch all the BoD at once? Right, he didn't...they GAVE themselves to him for the Ritual and pulled back out of fear.
Who said he outmatched them all at once? All I said is that he absorbed all of their energy, which he did. The fact that they willingly gave him their energy is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that it came in the form of lightning that Bane had to absorb.
Bane directed their power, he didn't fully control it.
He did in the sense that he was able to contain the energy and not be torn apart by it.
and, oh yeah, Lue has been stated as the most powerful force user....ever.
Sure. Lue has. Many times in fact. He's more powerful than even Zonamanama Sekot. But Luke hasn't, and Luke isn't.
And by Lucas to have the potential to become what Anakin could not.
Yeah, I know exactly what article you're referring to here, and as proven by Advent, all that the article undeniably proves is that Luke, like pre Cyborg Anakin, had the potential to surpass Sidious in power. That's all.
Just accept Bane isn't the best
Where did I say I thought he was the best? He's barely making my top ten list, and I actually rate Luke above him.