An amazing poster has just sent me this debate ending wonder:
http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altuhb2005streetsamuraids2.jpg
Read the multiverse and omniverse sections. Not only is it clear that some posters have been confusing their omnis with their multis but on top of that yet more official confirmation that their is ONE omniverse and as far as Marvel are concerned Dc's multiverse and Marvels own one are small parts of it.
😄
Originally posted by GalacticStormNice.
An amazing poster has just sent me this debate ending wonder:http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altuhb2005streetsamuraids2.jpg
Read the multiverse and omniverse sections. Not only is it clear that some posters have been confusing their omnis with their multis but on top of that yet more official confirmation that their is ONE omniverse and as far as Marvel are concerned Dc's multiverse and Marvels own one are small parts of it.
😄
Are there any more recent bios which contradict that?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
An amazing poster has just sent me this debate ending wonder:http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altuhb2005streetsamuraids2.jpg
Read the multiverse and omniverse sections. Not only is it clear that some posters have been confusing their omnis with their multis but on top of that yet more official confirmation that their is ONE omniverse and as far as Marvel are concerned Dc's multiverse and Marvels own one are small parts of it.
😄
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=425758&pagenumber=133
Near the bottom of the page
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Of course they're not. While they acknowledge that they exist within the same single creation of course Marvel writers when referring to omniverse aren't going to think of DC because its only through these crossovers that they're allowed to depict that point, otherwise its like the other company doesn't exist and its done solely from a Marvel perspective.Imagine the nightmare a writer would have having to deal with multiple continuities!!
Welcome back 🙂
👆
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=425758&pagenumber=133Near the bottom of the page
Thanks for that, i think some posters are getting a bit confused as to what exactly a megaverse is as well:
The above classification system was devised (at least in part) by Mark Gruenwald. However, it does seem to be missing one element. We have coined the term Megaverse to include realms associated with a particular line of comics, etc., but outside of the Multiverse. This would include such realms as the New Universe, Earth-Shadowline, etc. These realms lack the cosmic beings of the mainstream Multiverse, yet they are still more closely tied to other Marvel Universes than those of other comic lines (such as DC). Thus they are included within the Marvel Megaverse.
Mega - "big" (used to imply a larger grouping than the Multiverse).
Hopefully your link will resolve that.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
An amazing poster has just sent me this debate ending wonder
So you're saying that the Chaos wave tore DC to peices, not only DC, but our and any reality (if there is another universe) to peices?
So you're saying that the Chaos wave remade our reality as well?
So you're saying Roma can erase DC and our universe?
👇
Originally posted by Air Legend
OK I wasn't going to get involved in this since I simply didn't care, but when someone makes pretentious and snobbish statements like this, I will.So you're saying that the Chaos wave tore DC to peices, not only DC, but our and any reality (if there is another universe) to peices?
So you're saying that the Chaos wave remade our reality as well?
So you're saying Roma can erase DC and our universe?
👇
I wasn't going to get involved in this since i dont hold all the facts in front of me, but when someone makes ignorant and snobbish comments like this, I will
1) no it did not rip DC to pieces nor our reality(unless dipicted in a comic)
2)no it did not remake our reality( unless dipicted in a comic that i missed)
3)If there is a crossover and both companies are involved sure, they can do what they want
I am not the expert here, but whats the evidence that supports your questions.....and the animosity towards a fellow poster,hmmm i sense a past history involved here
Originally posted by starlock
I wasn't going to get involved in this since i dont hold all the facts in front of me, but when someone makes ignorant and snobbish comments like this, I will
I see your creativity is limited.
Originally posted by starlock
1) no it did not rip DC to pieces nor our reality(unless dipicted in a comic)2)no it did not remake our reality( unless dipicted in a comic that i missed)
3)If there is a crossover and both companies are involved sure, they can do what they want
I am not the expert here, but whats the evidence that supports your questions.....and the animosity towards a fellow poster,hmmm i sense a past history involved here
Originally posted by Air Legend
I see your creativity is limited.I don't even know that guy, but that line sounds very familiar to someone I dislike. The guy is arguing there is only one omniverse that we all live in, contrary to Marvel has its own omniverse. On panel the Chaos Wave tore the omniverse to pieces, so going by his logic, it tore all reality to pieces (which includes our reality FYI). I'm just pointing out the fallacies in such assessments. I have no feelings of hostility for the poster, I just hate arrogant statements like "debate ending wonder".
Not the case at all. You're getting the multiverse mixed up with the omniverse.
The chaos wave affected a few realities within Marvels multiverse before it was brought to a halt as observed by Roma the omniversal guardian. It was an event restricted to Marvels multiverse.
I am not merely stating my opinion when i say that there is one omniverse and DC and Marvel are within it. I have posted scans from comic books and bios stating the point.
All of your questions and queries have been dealt with in this thread already as you would see for yourself if you actually took the time to read the scans and posts and contemplate their implications.
You can disagree all you like, you can proclaim it stupid all you like but that is just your opinion and that is all it will remain because officially your opinion is rejected. And here in this comic forum where we are debating comic book fact, that is ALL that matters.
Thats enough from me for today.
Goodnight.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not the case at all. You're getting the multiverse mixed up with the omniverse.The chaos wave affected a few realities within Marvels multiverse before it was brought to a halt as observed by Roma the omniversal guardian. It was an event restricted to Marvels multiverse.
I am not merely stating my opinion when i say that there is one omniverse and DC and Marvel are within it. I have posted scans from comic books and bios stating the point.
All of your questions and queries have been dealt with in this thread already as you would see for yourself if you actually took the time to read the scans and posts and contemplate their implications.
You can disagree all you like, you can proclaim it stupid all you like but that is just your opinion and that is all it will remain because officially your opinion is rejected. And here in this comic forum where we are debating comic book fact, that is ALL that matters.
Thats enough from me for today.
Goodnight.
Re: Do the Marvel and Dc multiverses exist within the same creation?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thats a question i've been wondering for a long time.
Imo, yes... but it's not quite that simple. DC and Marvel are two separate comic book companies that have no authority or preeminence over each other. However, this brings up the idea of some of their crossovers being canon.
The idea of having two ultimately supreme beings within the same reality (TOAA and the Presence) is counter-intuitive. TOAA doesn't have influence within DC, and vice-versa. Therefore, theoretically, this suggests that a possible higher power could exist above even them!
When it comes to DC and Marvel characters meeting each other in continuity, imo, they would have to break down a certain "barrier" if you will that separates the two realities from one another.
So, do they exist within the same creation? Yes... but separated.
So would you say that no character can have omniversal power ?
What would that mean anyway ? Would Omniversal power mean that one has the power to create/destroy/recreate/manipulate the entire omniverse, or that one's power (whatever it may be) will work anywhere in the omniverse no matter where he or she is.
Ex: IG cannot work in DC Space. Likewise, ALE is useless in Marvel.
Ex#2: Crossgen's characters' powers weren't working well in Negation Space, because the two universes were un-related and worked on completely different physics.
Originally posted by Air Legend
Don't be so quick to claim your opinion as fact. There are a few conspicuous things in this post. The most prominent one is where you call Roma the omniversal guardian. Going by the scan you showed where it said "there is only one omniverse. Period.", (Where did you get that btw? Sounds like an uncredible source to me "omniverse. PERIOD!!"🙄) Roma can erase our universe with the flick of a switch. Roma is an illustration on a peice of paper. Need I continue where I'm going with this?
Comic books are fictional realities shared between writers and readers. Of course Roma can't actually affect the real world, come off it AL 😬, but thats merely the definition of omniverse that is canon for the comics we're debating.
The extract came from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe - Alternate Universes 2005. A Handbook specifically dealing with the subject matter at hand.
The point is stated explicitly in the image i've provided. You can argue relentlessly about how stupid you think it is and that would be your prerogative, however what you cannot do is deny that its canon.
Re: Re: Do the Marvel and Dc multiverses exist within the same creation?
Originally posted by batdude123
Imo, yes... but it's not quite that simple. DC and Marvel are two separate comic book companies that have no authority or preeminence over each other. However, this brings up the idea of some of their crossovers being canon.The idea of having two ultimately supreme beings within the same reality (TOAA and the Presence) is counter-intuitive. TOAA doesn't have influence within DC, and vice-versa. Therefore, theoretically, this suggests that a possible higher power could exist above even them!
When it comes to DC and Marvel characters meeting each other in continuity, imo, they would have to break down a certain "barrier" if you will that separates the two realities from one another.
So, do they exist within the same creation? Yes... but separated.
Agreed.
I stated most of what you said already. The Handbook writers talk of their being an occassional beeding over of multiverses:
Past stories have established that characters that are generally unique to certain multiverses are fictional to characters from other multiverses. (Of course, the reason that they tend to be unique to a certain multiverse has to do with the fact that they are strictly copyrighted and trademarked.) Somehow, a sort of "bleeding through" occurs by which certain people become subconsciously aware of events in other multiverses, and these people tend to be comic book artists and writers who use these visions for their work. For concrete examples of this phenomenon, in the New Universe (which, although owned by Marvel completely, to preserve a distinctive feel, has been designated as outside of the multiverse), the X-Men are only fictional characters-see Starbrand#11-12 for confirmation. The X-Men do not have counterparts in the New Universe. Superman/Fantastic Four established that Superman, of the DC Multiverse/Hypertimelines, is known on Earth-616 as only a fictional character. Superman does not have an Earth-616 counterpart. (Incidentally, Thor and other characters based on folklore and mythology--which are of course, public domain--are exceptions to this rule.)
So your point about them being within the same omniverse is one i agree with and one that the handbook writers have stated to be the case as well. They occupy different, separate multiverses within the same creation.
As for your point about the two multiverses supreme beings i said this:
I’ve heard talk of how Marvels Supreme Being is TOAA and DC’s is The Presence. Does that change the fact that Marvels stance is that there’s one omniverse and DC is recognised as an extra-dimensional neighbour?If anything it should make you question what TOAA and Presence are in relation to each other, are they the same being represented differently to the two multiverses? Who knows? The fact that we don’t know the answer to that question does NOT change Marvels official stance.
The supreme being is supposed to be lord of the entire omniverse, it is canon that the two multiverses are within the same the same creation, so maybe each companies perception of a supreme being are aspects of an even higher power.
We'll likely never ever know, but it makes for an interesting debate. 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The extract came from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe - Alternate Universes 2005. A Handbook specifically dealing with the subject matter at hand.
You use to debate on the comic vs forum, right?
Why don't you anymore?
Originally posted by Air Legend
Well I could continue the argument but there is no need for that. It's an outdated source. 🙂 I wonder what the latest handbook says on the matter.You use to debate on the comic vs forum, right?
Why don't you anymore?
Its not outdated at all. Where has the definition been re-defined officially since the handbook came out? 😕
Where has it been stated in an official source that the DC multiverse is no longer a part of the same omniverse as Marvels? 😕
You can't claim something to be outdated because its not printed the same year as your post 🙂
I haven't debated in the comic versus forum since last summer because i banned myself from this site as its too addictive and i have work commitments. Since i started posting again this week i haven't seen anything interesting to debate about. Same old recycled debates, the only difference is the posters cursing in them.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its not outdated at all. Where has the definition been re-defined officially since the handbook came out? 😕Where has it been stated in an official source that the DC multiverse is no longer a part of the same omniverse as Marvels? 😕
You can't claim something to be outdated because its not printed the same year as your post 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I haven't debated in the comic versus forum since last summer because i banned myself from this site as its too addictive and i have work commitments. Since i started posting again this week i haven't seen anything interesting to debate about. Same old recycled debates, the only difference is the posters cursing in them. [/B]
