Comic Book Mythbuster

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
[b]Busting the "Myth Buster"

Thor and the Thor Corps certainly did bolster the boundaries of the multiverse and if anyone has actually read the Thor Corps mini in particular, it's quite obvious that the threat of Demonstaff was beyond universal.

Let's look at multiple scans specifically pointing out the scope and threat level of Demonstaff's actions.

Here, Demonstaff mentions how he doubts the Thor Corps could save the multiverse due to his control of the staff he wields.

Here, after the Thor Corps save the day, we very clearly see Kargul sentencing Demonstaff for his crimes; crimes which spawned countless crises over infinite worlds. He even states "the multiverse may never recover". That's two specific mentions of the word "multiverse" in this story.

Another scan to showcase that Kargul's not just speaking in hyperbole, he states that parallel worlds - as in more than one - are melting into one another and the dimensional barriers are falling apart. More evidence to point to this being a simple universal matter.

This scan further elaborates on Demonstaff's origins and motivations. As a scientist, he was working on developing a way to explore alternate worlds and parallel realities, but the experiment gone wrong, which ultimately resulted in him becoming Demonstaff and having the ability to alter space and time across mulitple realities. Again, not just one.

As Demonstaff destroys and breaks down the walls of multiple dimensions, he specifically mentions parallel worlds. Again, as in more than one. The amount of on panel evidence supporting this being a multiversal threat are so numerous the fact that it's seriously being argued as only universal is baffling and quite sad of an attempt of lowballing.

It can't get clearer than this. "Universes will die! Entire dimensions will cease to exist!

Here, Demonstaff again goes on about how he wants to lay waste to "myriad dimensions" and destroy ALL of reality. Not just a single universe.

Eventually, Demonstaff has a change of heart and seeks to attone for the damage he spawned across "myriad realities". At this point, it should be painfully and laughably obvious that this is multiversal shit we're talking about here, not universal.

There's more scans I could upload to further pile on evidence supporting Demonstaff threatening/effecting the multiverse as a whole instead of a single universe - far more evidence than there is to somehow twist or "interpret" this only being universal in scope - but I think I made my case. Anyone is welcome to read the whole series to come to the logical conclusion of the level of danger the Thor Corps were dealing with.

And as far as Thor is concerned...

Look at the dialogue. Thor clearly recognizes both Bill and Eric Masterson. That alone should speak volumes as to him being 616 Thor. Whether it's Thor from before Blood and Thunder/Warrior Madness or after is irrelevant as it's the real original deal. Trying to pawn it off as it being "non-canon" to Thor or that it somehow doesn't count is ridiculous. When Zarko pulled Loki (who was dead at the time) from the time stream to confront the Thor Corps, it was still 616 Loki and as such possessed of the same powers and abilities as Loki before he died. The Thor Corps not knowing from what exact time period Thor would be hailing from when they summoned him doesn't mean that the actions Thor performed in the story don't "count" and it's ridiculous and disingenious to paint it as such.

In short:

Demonstaff certainly wrecked the walls of multiple universe and was repeatedly stated, either by himself, Kargul, or narration to be a multiversal threat. Certainly the world "universe" is used in the story, but the frequency of the word "multiverse" and the plural forms of worlds, realities, dimensions, etc. all support that the Thor Corps saved the multiverse by bolstering its collapsing walls. The lowballing of Demonstaff and his power by implying the "walls aren't that tough" is just that: lowballing.

And the Thor pulled from the time stream was 616 Thor and as such, makes the feat "count" for him. The fact he rejoiced over seeing Eric and Bill further verifies this as well as the fact that he didn't have any external amps or staggering differences to his character or pertinent knowledge of major future events (ie. foreshadowing Masterson's death).

"Mythbuster" busted. [/B]

Originally posted by Galan007
Mad? Heh, look, I get it, you're sticking up for abhi like you've done before, and that's cool. I'm just saying that his choice of verbiage is poor in the sense that he is giving nearly everyone(inc. a mod) the perception that he is low-balling some of the characters he "busts."

He objectively said:
Myth: Majestic rearranged the entire solar system by moving most of the planets.
Truth: He didn't, and mostly used other methods [some of which you pointed out yourself, which are rather tangential, since abhil was mostly talking about Majestic's physical moving].

The fact that you attack him based on him saying that and ending it with "That's all he did" is rather odd.

It's picking on him, just for the sake of doing it.

Originally posted by Galan007
You commenting that abhi should report posters just because they disagree with his self-proclaimed "Mythbusts" won't change things, I'm afraid. I hope you realize that you are just as guilty as those you said abhi should report?

Guilty as charged, then.

Lol, this is so cute.

I can just hear the Smallville opening theme as Philo rushes to Abhil's defense.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I haven't read his [or Jake]'s Thor posts, so I can't comment on that, but I don't see how he is lowballing Majestic.

He objectively said:
Myth: Majestic rearranged the entire solar system by moving most of the planets.
Truth: He didn't, and mostly used other methods [some of which you pointed out yourself, which are rather tangential, since abhil was mostly talking about Majestic's physical moving].

The fact that you attack him based on him saying that and ending it with "That's all he did" is rather odd.

It's picking on him, just for the sake of doing it.

I'm guilty of what, pointing out that people should be arguing evidence, rather than attacking the poster who presented them?

Guilty as charged, then.

Can someone please rush to my side and tell me to report Phil for this e-bullying I'm being subjected to? I can't handle it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, I stated why abhi's posts can be perceived as low-balling based on specific verbiage he opts to use in said posts, yet I'm "picking on him." Lol, in that case, you're picking on me too.

Can someone please rush to my side and tell me to report Phil for this e-bullying I'm being subjected to? I can't handle it.

There's no problem there. The wording doesn't lead anywhere else - Abhil proved what he set out to do, and then said "that's all he did".

You have a problem when there's nothing to be had, just for the sake of having it.

Anyway, I'm half-facepalming, so I'd rather not continue this.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Personally, I don't like to interchange feats between characters just because they are supposed to be peers. I would like to think that they are close but when on debate I try to stay away from those situations.

I have said before that being a peer is very wide term.

and while I thought the feat was nice, I just mentioned things in the context that I personally consider important when presenting this feat. Besides when this feat was presented by on a debate I was involved, I felt that it was cleverly worded to make it sound more than what it really was.

But for sure that it will be nice for the marvel universe to explain all this facts in this comic book, because like I said before BRB should have been KOed on issue 3 and 4 and Thor is from somewhere where realities may have similarities or from 616, who knows.

What is clear to me is that the writer should have keep better tabs on the characters He was working with.

I can get that, but really, in some cases, especially when it comes to characters so closely mirrored as Bill and Thor, it can't really be helped. It's not the same as projecting Kyle Rayner feats onto Hal Jordan or vice versa or Captain Marvel's strength/speed feats onto Superman. It's a nice theory in general, but I wouldn't apply it across the board and instead use it by case by case.

Bill and Thor are a lot closer than peers. Generally, they're portrayed as nothing short by equals when paired against one another or alongside the other. Thor generally has the better high end feats and is a "real" Asgardian, permitting him to be a notch above Bill. But both of their weapons are enchanted weapons blessed with the Odin Force, intended to be on the same level. Per this specific feat, I am honestly baffled why 616 Thor (assuming this isn't 616 Thor) can't do what his time displaced counterpart and Beta Ray Bill did.

Curiously, what was cleverly worded about this feat to make it sound more than it was and was it on KMC? Because in the long and short of it, the Thor Corps certainly did save the Multiverse by bolstering its walls. Not sure how it could be made into anything more crazy than that...?

The mini ends with everyone being sent back to their appropriate locations and timelines, effectively giving us a nice wrapped up ending that doesn't conflict with continuity at the time. Bill himself is returned to where he was originally, which was after he and Sif began their quest to look for the mad Thor.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I'd rather not continue this.

Originally posted by Galan007
Can someone please rush to my side and tell me to report Phil for this e-bullying I'm being subjected to? I can't handle it.

It'll get all the more interesting if it's Newjak who ends up addressing Philo's e-vigilantism. mmm

I don't see why we have to extrapolate the feat to Thor because Bill is his equal or inferior. Sure we can do that, but I think it's completely unnecessary.

They summoned Thor from sometime before Blood and Thunder. I don't understand why it isn't valid just because they used a past/future Thor instead of a current Thor? Are we assuming that they could have summoned some kind of alternate non-616 Thor?

They specifically tasked their hammers to summon the greatest warrior of all time, the one true Thor. When dealing with 3 Odin enchanted weapons that can manipulate both time/space to the degree that they can, it's far more likely that they got what they wanted instead of some knock off.

But to each his own, if someone doesn't want to count a feat, can't force them too.

This is beyond ridiculous.

It was Thor from a different time, but same reality/timeline. And there was no indication at all that it was Thor with a different or enhanced power set like King Thor.

The implication was so damn clear. They even flat out say we want to call Thor through time and space, but hopefully not current Thor whose gone mad.

And yeah even if we say "It's not Thor," well it was the rest of the Thor corpse.

If a Krptonian who we know is less powerful than Superman does an amazing feat, then yeah it would automatically show how powerful Superman is.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I know that all of Bill/Thor's feats aren't universally interchangable, too, but in the case of this specific instance, it'd be downright laughable and illogical alike to argue that it's not applicable to Thor, especially when someone significantly weaker such as Thunderstrike is able to contribute to the feat. Even if you disagree with Bill and Thor being equals or that Thor should be able to do anything Bill does, there's absolutely no reason that 616 Thor can't perform what Dargo and Eric did - assuming it was an alternate reality/universe Thor instead of a displaced one.

No interview that I know of, but the inferred intent is pretty easy to pick up. The nature of the story line with timelines and realities being skewed allowed DeFalco an easy explanation and way to use Thor without messing up the likes of what was going on at time in the form of the Blood and Thunder crossover and still keep things in continuity. The event even resolves nicely at the end with everyone being in their original locations prior to Demonstaff's assault.

You could argue against it being 616 Thor and arguing that the feat isn't applicable to him, but really, it wouldn't even begin to make sense. It's no different from DeFalco using a time displaced Loki because he was currently "dead" in earlier issues of Thor or a WWII Era Captain America being thrown into the present via Avengers/Invaders. There's absolutely no logical idea to suggest that feat doesn't apply to Thor.

I honestly think Thor is > Bill, so in theory, anything Bill can do, etc etc.

That said, I don't think it's definitive enough to hold up on a forum as being indisputable. Arguable? Sure. Like I said I agree with it. If I was arguing it, I would be on the side of it being 616 Thor. I couldn't say, make a mod ruling on it, though. Not without seeing DeFalco say it, or some other proof, even with the whole "One true Thor" thing.

======

also, guys, please keep any discussion to the actual scans being presented. Let's not make this any more personal than it already is.

Jackethebank wins. 👆

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Jackethebank wins. 👆

😂

Seriously though, if abhi tries to make a comeback after what happened last page, then it's just fail trolling at the very best.

I understand the increased haterade that Thor has been recently getting from hardcore DC fans, largely in part to the ridiculous low showings he has amassed in recent times, but this trollish lowballing routine gets tiresome and boring over time, especially when one tries to discredit already well-established feats of the character that are perfectly acceptable on the battle forums.

Originally posted by -Pr-
guys, please keep any discussion to the actual scans being presented. Let's not make this any more personal than it already is.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I shall. Go ahead and do it. Report him for backseat modding.

It'll get all the more interesting if it's Newjak who ends up addressing Philo's e-vigilantism. mmm

This has shown me this thread while a great idea could use some refinement on how it's done.

Something could be to follow the actual Mythbusters show better.

Instead of someone just posting Myth Busted we can instead take a topic someone wants to see busted post them in here people have a discussion and once a general consensus is made we can determine whether the Myth is BUSTED or CONFIRMED and maybe a third PLAUSIBLE for something in between.

Then I can edit them into the front page with the verdict.

Thoughts from the public?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I can get that, but really, in some cases, especially when it comes to characters so closely mirrored as Bill and Thor, it can't really be helped. It's not the same as projecting Kyle Rayner feats onto Hal Jordan or vice versa or Captain Marvel's strength/speed feats onto Superman. It's a nice theory in general, but I wouldn't apply it across the board and instead use it by case by case.

Bill and Thor are a lot closer than peers. Generally, they're portrayed as nothing short by equals when paired against one another or alongside the other. Thor generally has the better high end feats and is a "real" Asgardian, permitting him to be a notch above Bill. But both of their weapons are enchanted weapons blessed with the Odin Force, intended to be on the same level. Per this specific feat, I am honestly baffled why 616 Thor (assuming this isn't 616 Thor) can't do what his time displaced counterpart and Beta Ray Bill did.

I would not say he "can't" just that I personally would not put this feat under his belt, not because I think he can't but because it is debatable (based on the many universes Marvel has that share the same pasts or futures) that this is the Thor I would be trying to assign the feat.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Curiously, what was cleverly worded about this feat to make it sound more than it was and was it on KMC? Because in the long and short of it, the Thor Corps certainly did save the Multiverse by bolstering its walls. Not sure how it could be made into anything more crazy than that...?

You actually say it how the feat was presented. it was bolstering the walls of the multiverse. The way it was presented and yes it was here on KMC it was "Holding the structure of the Marvel multiverse"

"Holding the structure of the Marvel multiverse"

VS

"Bolstering the walls of the Marvel multiverse"

I tend to read very carefully because English is not my first language and often I use a dictionary when putting feats together to make sure I am giving the right definition in the context of the sentence. "Holding the structure of the Marvel Universe" to me, is not very accurate.

To use an analogy

Lets say We have a house with 10 rooms on it. Demonstaff is coming in and out of those rooms and he is damaging the indoor walls that separate those rooms. If this in door walls fall, our rooms will become only one room. The outer walls of the house will be walls that are really supporting the structure of the house, not the inside walls. If I loose the inside walls, the structure of my house it will be ok, all my rooms will be mixed into one, but the structure of the house will be fine.

This is why I said it was cleverly worded to make it sound more than what it really was.

As far as the power of mjolnir being capable bolstering the walls of the multiverse for a moment? Yes why not, I don't see a problem with it.

As far as being 100% sure to which Thor this feat should be assigned? Not 100% sure, at least not in my opinion.

I personally believe that bringing context forward is not necessarily low balling. Be that for Superman, Thor, Silver Surfer or any other character.

Which reminds me I also saw once a feat in here in the Silver Surfer respect thread, that it was presented as Silver Surfer having nanosecond reaction time, what the presenter of the feat forgot to mention it was that the feat it was actually a hallucination.

Not saying that they do this on purpose but if noted, We should bring it up.

Originally posted by Newjak
For the most part this thread didn't get too out of hand and when it did it settled quickly enough.

This has shown me this thread while a great idea could use some refinement on how it's done.

Something could be to follow the actual Mythbusters show better.

Instead of someone just posting Myth Busted we can instead take a topic someone wants to see busted post them in here people have a discussion and once a general consensus is made we can determine whether the Myth is BUSTED or CONFIRMED and maybe a third PLAUSIBLE for something in between.

Then I can edit them into the front page with the verdict.

Thoughts from the public?

👆 👆

To follow the Mythbusters format more closely, I'm not sure how "consensus" would help. Wouldn't it entail at least a decaf form of scientific method?

Originally posted by -Pr-