Originally posted by Omega VisionI'm not sure how we would incorporate the scientific method with comics considering science gets thrown out the window at times?
To follow the Mythbusters format more closely, I'm not sure how "consensus" would help. Wouldn't it entail at least a decaf form of scientific method?
I was thinking of more a general debate for a few pages until overall consensus is met. It's not perfect but I wanted to eliminate people posting their conclusion first then having people come in here and starting an argument over it and instead start with the myth then having a discussion to come to the conclusion from there.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankThese are the only two evidences of an argument and they directly contradict what was said earlier by both Demonstaff and Kargul.
[b]Busting the "Myth Buster"Thor and the Thor Corps certainly did bolster the boundaries of the multiverse and if anyone has actually read the Thor Corps mini in particular, it's quite obvious that the threat of Demonstaff was beyond universal.
Let's look at multiple scans specifically pointing out the scope and threat level of Demonstaff's actions.
Here, Demonstaff mentions how he doubts the Thor Corps could save the multiverse due to his control of the staff he wields.
Universe entire and all reality.
Here, after the Thor Corps save the day, we very clearly see Kargul sentencing Demonstaff for his crimes; crimes which spawned countless crises over infinite worlds. He even states "the multiverse may never recover". That's two specific mentions of the word "multiverse" in this story.There are more than two references of universe being in danger than a multiverse. We can call it "chaos war" syndrome.
Which was directly after he said that Demonstaff was endangering a universe.
Another scan to showcase that Kargul's not just speaking in hyperbole, he states that parallel worlds - as in more than one - are melting into one another and the dimensional barriers are falling apart. More evidence to point to this being a simple universal matter.
In fact there were no mention of other universes. Dimensions/planes/timelines/worlds/whatever all existed in a single universe.
Assorted planeS of existence and the Sentient Life-force of The universe
This scan further elaborates on Demonstaff's origins and motivations. As a scientist, he was working on developing a way to explore alternate worlds and parallel realities, but the experiment gone wrong, which ultimately resulted in him becoming Demonstaff and having the ability to alter space and time across mulitple realities. Again, not just one.He wanted to specifically create a big bang, which you know is a universe buster.
As Demonstaff destroys and breaks down the walls of multiple dimensions, he specifically mentions parallel worlds. Again, as in more than one. The amount of on panel evidence supporting this being a multiversal threat are so numerous the fact that it's seriously being argued as only universal is baffling and quite sad of an attempt of lowballing.It can't get clearer than this. "Universes will die! Entire dimensions will cease to exist!
Here, Demonstaff again goes on about how he wants to lay waste to "myriad dimensions" and destroy ALL of reality. Not just a single universe.
Eventually, Demonstaff has a change of heart and seeks to attone for the damage he spawned across "myriad realities". At this point, it should be painfully and laughably obvious that this is multiversal shit we're talking about here, not universal.
There's more scans I could upload to further pile on evidence supporting Demonstaff threatening/effecting the multiverse as a whole instead of a single universe - far more evidence than there is to somehow twist or "interpret" this only being universal in scope - but I think I made my case. Anyone is welcome to read the whole series to come to the logical conclusion of the level of danger the Thor Corps were dealing with.
We have more statements that contradict each other like in "chaos war". So the only proof is what was shown actually on panel being affected and that's painfully clear.
You can cite as many statements you like, the idea is pretty clear by on panel proof. It was universal shit.
And as far as Thor is concerned...616 Thor recognizes Thunderstrike as Eric Masterson when he just literally became thunderstrike (Thor 459) but doesn't recognizes Dargo Ktor who he's met even before he met Eric masterson? Lulz.Look at the dialogue. Thor clearly recognizes both Bill and Eric Masterson. That alone should speak volumes as to him being 616 Thor.
Whether it's Thor from before Blood and Thunder/Warrior Madness or after is irrelevant as it's the real original deal. Trying to pawn it off as it being "non-canon" to Thor or that it somehow doesn't count is ridiculous. When Zarko pulled Loki (who was dead at the time) from the time stream to confront the Thor Corps, it was still 616 Loki and as such possessed of the same powers and abilities as Loki before he died. The Thor Corps not knowing from what exact time period Thor would be hailing from when they summoned him doesn't mean that the actions Thor performed in the story don't "count" and it's ridiculous and disingenious to paint it as such.Another lulz.
In short:I can also claim otherwise but who cares?Demonstaff certainly wrecked the walls of multiple universe and was repeatedly stated, either by himself, Kargul, or narration to be a multiversal threat. Certainly the world "universe" is used in the story, but the frequency of the word "multiverse" and the plural forms of worlds, realities, dimensions, etc. all support that the Thor Corps saved the multiverse by bolstering its collapsing walls. The lowballing of Demonstaff and his power by implying the "walls aren't that tough" is just that: lowballing.
And the Thor pulled from the time stream was 616 Thor and as such, makes the feat "count" for him. The fact he rejoiced over seeing Eric and Bill further verifies this as well as the fact that he didn't have any external amps or staggering differences to his character or pertinent knowledge of major future events (ie. foreshadowing Masterson's death).😂"Mythbuster" busted. [/B]
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Abhi seems to be obsessed with proving Thor isn't High Herald level.Don't think this is the right thread though for him to argue the case.
Originally posted by Galan007
Mad? Heh, look, I get it, you're sticking up for abhi like you've done before, and that's cool. I'm just saying that his choice of verbiage is poor in the sense that he is giving nearly everyone(inc. a mod) the perception that he is low-balling some of the characters he "busts."If his choice of words gives people this perception, then he can expect those people to respond accordingly. You commenting that abhi should report posters just because they disagree with his self-proclaimed "Mythbusts" won't change things, I'm afraid. I hope you realize that you are just as guilty as those you said abhi should report?
Originally posted by abhilegend
These are the only two evidences of an argument and they directly contradict what was said earlier by both Demonstaff and Kargul.Universe entire and all reality.
There are more than two references of universe being in danger than a multiverse. We can call it "chaos war" syndrome.
Which was directly after he said that Demonstaff was endangering a universe.
In fact there were no mention of other universes. Dimensions/planes/timelines/worlds/whatever all existed in a single universe.
Assorted planeS of existence and the Sentient Life-force of The universe
He wanted to specifically create a big bang, which you know is a universe buster.
We have more statements that contradict each other like in "chaos war". So the only proof is what was shown actually on panel being affected and that's painfully clear.
You can cite as many statements you like, the idea is pretty clear by on panel proof. It was universal shit.
Originally posted by abhilegend
These are the only two evidences of an argument and they directly contradict what was said earlier by both Demonstaff and Kargul.Universe entire and all reality.
There are more than two references of universe being in danger than a multiverse. We can call it "chaos war" syndrome.
Which was directly after he said that Demonstaff was endangering a universe.
In fact there were no mention of other universes. Dimensions/planes/timelines/worlds/whatever all existed in a single universe.
Assorted planeS of existence and the Sentient Life-force of The universe
He wanted to specifically create a big bang, which you know is a universe buster.
We have more statements that contradict each other like in "chaos war". So the only proof is what was shown actually on panel being affected and that's painfully clear.
You can cite as many statements you like, the idea is pretty clear by on panel proof. It was universal shit.
616 Thor recognizes Thunderstrike as Eric Masterson when he just literally became thunderstrike (Thor 459) but doesn't recognizes Dargo Ktor who he's met even before he met Eric masterson? Lulz. Another lulz.I can also claim otherwise but who cares?
😂
So, basically, you're going to continue to lowball the hell out of his feat in spite of the vast amount of on-panel information placed in front of you in order to save face? barker
We saw Demonstaff summoning creatures from multiple dimensions. We saw Kargul mention how Demonstaff could have destroyed the Multiverse. We saw Demonstaff mention how he sought an end to the Multiverse and wanted to destroy all universes across countless realities. We're repeatedly told, over and over and over again that is a threat which will effect multiple realities, worlds, and dimensions.
This isn't opinion, but on panel fact. And you decide to lowball this feat, and "mythbust" a feat that wasn't a myth to begin with. This is either agenda fueled trolling/lowballing (against the rules) or you didn't comprehend the story or scans that pretty much everyone else has. Neither of which are flattering choices.
He wanted to destroy the primary universe/reality in addition to countless others. The story is abundantly clear on this matter.
What? When did Thor meet Dargo? His first appearance is before Eric's, but he didn't meet him in it. Dargo never met his inspiration until the Thor Corps issue.
So, basically, you have no good reason to assume that this isn't 616 Thor other than you don't want it to be?
" 😂 " all you want, but it's clear to anyone with eyes and objectivity that the feat is what it is and you're lowballing it immensely, either out of not understanding it or trolling, plain and simple.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Or we can call it the Lucifer Morningstar syndrome. Since you know, going by your logic he did nothing more than make a universe. Seriously, between this sh1t and insulting other posters' family members' rl problems, why the phuck aren't you banned yet?
Your cheerleading is extremely annoying. That was a mistake and if you make one another post like this, I'm going to report you.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So, basically, you're going to continue to lowball the hell out of his feat in spite of the vast amount of on-panel information placed in front of you in order to save face? barkerWe saw Demonstaff summoning creatures from multiple dimensions. We saw Kargul mention how Demonstaff could have destroyed the Multiverse. We saw Demonstaff mention how he sought an end to the Multiverse and wanted to destroy all universes across countless realities. We're repeatedly told, over and over and over again that is a threat which will effect multiple realities, worlds, and dimensions.
This isn't opinion, but on panel fact. And you decide to lowball this feat, and "mythbust" a feat that wasn't a myth to begin with. This is either agenda fueled trolling/lowballing (against the rules) or you didn't comprehend the story or scans that pretty much everyone else has. Neither of which are flattering choices.
He wanted to destroy the primary universe/reality in addition to countless others. The story is abundantly clear on this matter.
What? When did Thor meet Dargo? His first appearance is before Eric's, but he didn't meet him in it. Dargo never met his inspiration until the Thor Corps issue.
So, basically, you have no good reason to assume that this isn't 616 Thor other than you don't want it to be?
" 😂 " all you want, but it's clear to anyone with eyes and objectivity that the feat is what it is and you're lowballing it immensely, either out of not understanding it or trolling, plain and simple.
Didn't Thor meet Dargo in Thor 384? If not, then you're right. It was 616 Thor.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm not lowballing anything. I'm just taking this feat as it is, universal that is. I brought scans in defense of my stance and not just words. Actually, demonstaff wanted to destroy the universe as I showed. You are now just "Dude, come on!" phase. It was told over and over that the universe was in danger.Didn't Thor meet Dargo in Thor 384? If not, then you're right. It was 616 Thor.
I get that a lot of comics are open to interpretation and subjectivity, but in this case, it can't get much clearer. Between the multiple statements of various characters mentioning the danger the multiverse was in - in another scan I didn't post, Dargo mentions it as well, but I felt like I didn't need to post one more scan of the specific use of the word multiverse - as well as Demonstaff being able to effect multiple worlds/dimensions/realities and his intent to cause death across universes and worlds (as in plural), it's more of a stretch and effort to go about assuming it was only universal. Maybe you don't honestly believe you're lowballing it, but really, Occam's Razor comes to mind here.
Why would we have all these statements in addition to actions supporting multiversal danger only for it to really be universal? This story wasn't particularly deep or convoluted and really, DeFalco seemed pretty clear.
And yes, the original Thor didn't appear in Dargo's first issue.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
🤨Oooh...I am getting the shivers. 🙄
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I get that a lot of comics are open to interpretation and subjectivity, but in this case, it can't get much clearer. Between the multiple statements of various characters mentioning the danger the multiverse was in - in another scan I didn't post, Dargo mentions it as well, but I felt like I didn't need to post one more scan of the specific use of the word multiverse - as well as Demonstaff being able to effect multiple worlds/dimensions/realities and his intent to cause death across universes and worlds (as in plural), it's more of a stretch and effort to go about assuming it was only universal. Maybe you don't honestly believe you're lowballing it, but really, Occam's Razor comes to mind here.Why would we have all these statements in addition to actions supporting multiversal danger only for it to really be universal? This story wasn't particularly deep or convoluted and really, DeFalco seemed pretty clear.
And yes, the original Thor didn't appear in Dargo's first issue.
Ok.
The truly hilarious part is that the words realities (As in plural), entire parallel worlds collapsing on themselves, dimensional barriers etc. are used in the same scans Abhil presented as evidence:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15643754/Thor_Corps_4_p01.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15664826/Thor_Corps_4_p02.jpg.html
Imagine reading that entire sequence, and ignoring literally everything else but that one word and harping on it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
He wanted to specifically create a big bang, which you know is a universe buster.
I wasn't even planning on reading your post but this shit popped out at me too much.
Are you not reading your own scans?
"Think of the big bang we'll have when all of the alternate dimensions collapse upon each other."
You dissect entire statements, ignore their context, and selectively pick words to support your argument.
Demonstaff wanted to cause a "big bang" by collapsing entire dimensions on each other. What about makes you think it was a single reality or whatever?
And that's assuming he's referring to the classical creation event, and not a play on words for a large explosion (He's plan would have just destroyed everything) in that context.
That's ignoring the fact that large creation events aren't limited to a Universe. Lucifer creating his Multiverse is an example.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The truly hilarious part is that the words realities (As in plural), entire parallel worlds collapsing on themselves, dimensional barriers etc. are used in the same scans Abhil presented as evidence:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15643754/Thor_Corps_4_p01.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15664826/Thor_Corps_4_p02.jpg.htmlImagine reading that entire sequence, and ignoring literally everything else but that one word and harping on it.
His decayed line of reasoning tells us that Lucifer Morningstar only created a universe since that was all that was shown taking place on-panel. The truly funny thing here is that the Thor Corps event actually has more numerous instances of it being implied or outright referred to as being multiversal in scope than even Lucifer's feat had.
This attempt to lowball the feat is sad in itself to begin with, but then to continue to troll after being called out on your BS, by selectively picking up pieces of evidence that you like and ignoring everything else, is just downright pathetic.
Rage pointed out a few... Hiccups in abhi's argumentation. There is a plethora of evidence which overtly states that things were happening on a multiversal level-- Rage [also] pointed out that even a few of the scans abhi himself posted reference the multiverse. Cherry-picking the word "universe" from a few scans doesn't change the vast amount of evidence to the contrary.
So yeah, it's clear the multiverse was affected. There is no reason to argue it any further/troll.
