Sabretooth vs Carnage, who wins?

Originally posted by SamZED

BUT... if they can't then Sabretooth has a huge chance of walking away with a stalemate or even possibly an edge in the fight.

I mean this is really the only resolve that you and I can come to because of our disagreements on the evidence presented thus far. All I can do with you is agree to disagree.

Though I REALLY don't agree with you matching anti-venom to Venom.

Originally posted by jinzin
Since you feel so compelled to keep comparing Carnage to Venom and bringing Venom up again again and again... I guess so.

You keep grasping at Venom being an opponent for Carnage and ignoring how Venom constantly kicks his ass...

No surprise really that you'll also ignore the fact that Wolverine has 100% consistency in holding symbiote users to a standstill. But somehow Sabretooth who's better in every physical category than Wolverine is going to get curbedstomped in your opinion.... whatever.

Originally posted by jinzin
Uh.. they don't match up.... Venom kicks his ass WAY more often than not AND usually under WAY worse circumstances... so I'm not sure what you're getting at. Again to the strawman?

Bullets penetrate by overwhelming speed/force. Not cutting profeciency. Wolverine going down to a throat chop is in face of overwhelming numbers of counter evidence. Carnage...or any other symiote for that matter getting sliced/cut/orstabbed by a blade or pinpoint weapon is not. You need to read more symbiote material.

Bullets are piercing damage, not blunt force durability. And Carnage is bullet-proof and neither Wolverine nor Sabretooth are bullet-proof. I'm not going to waste time arguing either of those propositions. They're plainly evident. Carnage can sense through his symbiote. He isn't limited to sight. It's why when Spidey webbed his face in their first encounter, Spidey got knocked for a loop and notes that his symbiote provides him perception. REREAD THE COMICS.

Originally posted by jinzin
Guess I am since Carnage has no greater agility, or piercing durability, and his blunt force durability isn't an advantage in this fight, his ability to attack with his entire body isn't a likely scenario, his perception is limited to sigh where as Sabretooth can track through sent in the dark, and his vampiric touch was only a one hit wonder....

Pretty sure none of the advantages I listed are "non-factors" and unlike yours they're actually true to character and comic fact.

but...
Nice propaganda though?...

Sorry, but everyone's smarter than Carnage. Sabretooth isn't special in that regard. Everybody has greater martial arts acumen than him. Sabretooth isn't special in that regard. Carnage isn't getting one-shotted via single claw to throat or gut, so don't kid yourself. And Sabretooth's stamina when compared to Carnage's ability to completely regenerate his symbiote instantly without exhausting him or it + his vampiric touch does, in fact, make Sabretooth's stamina a non-factor. Carnage strength is superior, he his arguably more agile, his entire body is a weapon, he has a vampiric touch, his attack range is far greater, etc. And yes, contrary to your belief, Carnage perceives through his symbiote. Propaganda, not so much. More like fact.

Originally posted by jinzin
Uh...no.... Like when for instance?

Nope, that'd be YOUR strawman, not MY argument.

Why should I? I AM arguing from a credible, unbiased viewpoint... It's quite clear I've read MANY MANY more appearances of Carnage, Venom and the related symbiotes than you have with a far greater understanding of the context of their histories mr. "Carnage has taken Venon and Spidey at the same time many times"...lol.
I've been a symbiote fan and reader longer than I ever even CARED about Sabretooth and I think even samZED can attest to that. But I can understand why you'd like to resort to ad hominum here... Ad nauseum doesn't seem to be working for you so it's time to switch gears. OOOOH false dycotomy now?

Horsecrap. You argue that Sabretooth would put down Carnage for a count if he clawed his throat or hacked his gut. That ain't a straw-man, that's your argument. How do you possibly conclude that Sabretooth (who excels at clawing throats and guts)... only manages 5/10? One swipe is all that it takes... and in an extended fight (since Sabes has a healing factor)... he only takes 5/10? There is an atrociously blatant disjunction between your arguments and your conclusion. Explain it. After that, you'll realize just how you've been ignoring how you set up your arguments to have only 1 of 2 conclusions, Sabes stomps (because he only needs one good swipe) or he doesn't.

Originally posted by jinzin
And uh....no... Spiderman was "ensnared by carnage like... twice in his career.. Spiderman has dodged carnage a number of times, including two encounters where he was fighting an entire group of villains alongside Cletus as well as the Carnage Cosmic... and he doesn't even have his Spider Sense to help him there or the claws to simply rip or shred the symbiote apart like Wolverine did to Venom's tendrils.
You look at any of his fights and your backhanded estimation that he projects deadly and effective attacks from every inch of his body isn't only dead wrong, it's just stupid.

Are you seriously going to argue that Carnage can make more use of a power that couldn't effect Luke Cage than Omega Red can make of a power that no-sold collosus as well as half a dozen X-men he never even had to touch? Are you going to argue that a power that showed up for one issue is something that isn't suspect?

Only when you unilaterally dismiss it as if it doesn't exist. Sorry, but if it were just Kassady with a vampiric touch it would mean balls. But this is Carnage with a vampiric touch. You've again reverted to attacking a single point in isolation and ignoring the whole.

Originally posted by jinzin
lol, that's what you just did. No you're just lying.

Can and yet haven't....

You're right it's not. Carnage can get sliced, and diced just like any other symbiote user... And according to your logic using one shot abilities, Sabretooth several times as proven to be bullet proof or greater. That'd be what you're doing and you ARE making shit up... I agree.. your posts are comedy gold.

Are you seriously suggesting that Carnage has not lifted Spiderman in the air, kept him at bay, or just tossed him around like a rag doll? REREAD THE COMICS.

And like any other symbiote user, they've withstood slicing and dicing. Sabretooth is not bullet-proof. His skin isn't that hard, you don't even realize what you're arguing for anymore you've got yourself so wound up. Sabretooth isn't bullet-proof. And greater damage soak doesn't mean Sabretooth has greater piercing durability. We're talking durability, not stamina. Christ.

Originally posted by jinzin
The scratch didn't heal though.
in fact the whole reason why Carnage bled enough to cover himself in his symbiote was specifically because the scratch didn't heal....
Carnage's symbiote being able to reform is not the same as his host healing damage... Not really sure how to make that more clear to you.

Spiderman can't avoid Sabretooth. It's not as impressive as your cracking it up to be. And Spiderman HAS avoided carnage more oftehn than not. All the rest of that is just more garbage of things I've already countered, and I never said skill alone would overcome Carnage but as you say... way to miss the point.

Sabretooth was standing around while Wade fell into goo.

Spiderman can't avoid Sabretooth now? lulzgasm

GOOOOOOD LORD! Man do you like to lie through your teeth.

I really don't understand what gets you so hung up on these threads that you're willing to go to any and every length to argue shit where you have no idea what your talking about.

But like I said whatever.. I really am not going to go circles with you AGAIN and tell you which arguments I HAVEN'T made in this thread that you're responding to so.... I'm not going to.. it's a waste of my time, your time and everyone elses time here.

My argument comes down to what I said to Sam with the whole reasonable doubt issue.

IF: Carnage can tank vital damage than he'll curb Sabretooth.
IF: He can't, then Sabretooth is walking away with wins under his belt and has at least a chance at the majority.

Now: The ONLY REAL evident advantages that Carnage has AGAINST SABRETOOTH are strength, range, and according to you his "vampiric touch".

Sabretooth has strict advantages in his healing factor, stamina, and fighting skill

Symbiotes' durability does NOTHING to counter evisceration. End of story. there's nothing else to discuss there. Them being bullet proof does not somehow equate to them able to counter slicing and dicing... That's all there is to it.

Carnage having his shoulder run completely through by a bone claw Wolverine SHOULD tell you that... but...

"DUR! CARNANEWGE AIS BULLE! PROOF1"
Yeah, stuff it; doesn't matter. Not in this thread, not in this fight. His durability counts for shit.

You think Carnage can take having his throat ripped out and keep fighting? Please provide some evidence that would help anyone come to this conclusion... only the thing is... and I'll tell you right now, that evidence doesn't exist... The two times Carnage has ever had the chance to prove you right... he didn't... Once he continued bleeding, the other.. he died... Seriously Dumb GTFO.

Originally posted by jinzin
GOOOOOOD LORD! Man do you like to lie through your teeth.

I really don't understand what gets you so hung up on these threads that you're willing to go to any and every length to argue shit where you have no idea what your talking about.

But like I said whatever.. I really am not going to go circles with you AGAIN and tell you which arguments I HAVEN'T made in this thread that you're responding to so.... I'm not going to.. it's a waste of my time, your time and everyone elses time here.

Originally posted by jinzin
My argument comes down to what I said to Sam with the whole reasonable doubt issue.

IF: Carnage can tank vital damage than he'll curb Sabretooth.
IF: He can't, then Sabretooth is walking away with wins under his belt and has at least a chance at the majority.

Now: The ONLY REAL evident advantages that Carnage has AGAINST SABRETOOTH are strength, range, and according to you his "vampiric touch".

Sabretooth has strict advantages in his healing factor, stamina, and fighting skill

You list Sabretooth's attributes. And that's convenient for me. Because it is those attributes make him a slice/dice/stab/gut/eviscerating machine. And you're telling me that Sabretooth only has a chance at the majority? How can Carnage possibly win any extended fight (and you can bet your last dollar it will be), when a single claw swipe will end it? Work it out in your head: Out of 10 extended brutal fights, that could last minutes if not an hour, Sabretooth gets only 5 (maybe 6) claw swipes at his throat/gut. lolwut?!

It's the same blatantly disjunctive arguments I see from Superman proponents. Them: "Superman has superspeed. He has superstrength. If he goes all out, and he will here, nothing stops him from instantly one-shotting his opponent. Because his opponent can't possibly react in time to defend himself." Me: "Well, I disagree with that in the first place, but then you really think Superman wins this fight 10/10?" Them: "Oh, no. Superman wins only 7/10." Me: "What? If I grant your premise, how does Superman even lose once? Let alone a third of the time?" Them: "You're straw-manning me." Me: "lolwut?!"

Same routine, different character.

Originally posted by jinzin
Symbiotes' durability does NOTHING to counter evisceration. End of story. there's nothing else to discuss there. Them being bullet proof does not somehow equate to them able to counter slicing and dicing... That's all there is to it.

Carnage having his shoulder run completely through by a bone claw Wolverine SHOULD tell you that... but...

"DUR! CARNANEWGE AIS BULLE! PROOF1"
Yeah, stuff it; doesn't matter. Not in this thread, not in this fight. His durability counts for shit.

You think Carnage can take having his throat ripped out and keep fighting? Please provide some evidence that would help anyone come to this conclusion... only the thing is... and I'll tell you right now, that evidence doesn't exist... The two times Carnage has ever had the chance to prove you right... he didn't... Once he continued bleeding, the other.. he died... Seriously Dumb GTFO.

Acting like Carnage isn't physically more durable than Sabretooth to the point where you're pretending Sabretooth is bullet-proof is so absurd, I can't even fault you for it. And acting like a weakened Carnage, who had his entire symbiote manifestation blown off his body... and then him healing it in two panels completely.... that means Carnage can't heal? MORE absurdity. And Carnage dying... to Sentry = Sabretooth winning? You think Sabretooth survives getting ripped in half in outer space by Bob? lolwut? You. You don't have to GTFO. You stay. This is comedy gold.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You missed the context of our statements in the back and forths. It's your fault that you kept cutting up my paragraphs into sentence fragments. YOU brought up Venom beating Carnage. Then when I responded that's inapposite because Sabretooth =/= Venom, you went on another tangent and brought up Wolverine vs Venom because somehow... I was bringing up Venom out of the blue. Horsecrap. YOU brought up Venom beating Carnage in the first place. Just because I addressed that and rebutted Venom's applicability here doesn't mean that I brought him up out of the blue. That's just one of SEVERAL examples. You want me to track them and lay out the posts one at a time? Stick to summarizing, it's easier for the both of us. I understand you have a train of thought going here, and I'm slicing up your summary, but that underlined part is the problem. What other character is as sure a bet as Sabretooth is, when it comes to being able to claw someone's throat or gut?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You list Sabretooth's attributes. And that's convenient for me. Because it is those attributes make him a slice/dice/stab/gut/eviscerating machine. And you're telling me that Sabretooth only has a chance at the majority? How can Carnage possibly win any extended fight (and you can bet your last dollar it will be), when a single claw swipe will end it?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Work it out in your head: Out of 10 extended brutal fights, that could last minutes if not an hour, Sabretooth gets only 5 (maybe 6) claw swipes at his throat/gut. lolwut?!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's the same blatantly disjunctive arguments I see from Superman proponents. [b]Them: "Superman has superspeed. He has superstrength. If he goes all out, and he will here, nothing stops him from instantly one-shotting his opponent. Because his opponent can't possibly react in time to defend himself." Me: "Well, I disagree with that in the first place, but then you really think Superman wins this fight 10/10?" Them: "Oh, no. Superman wins only 7/10." Me: "What? If I grant your premise, how does Superman even lose once? Let alone a third of the time?" Them: "You're straw-manning me." Me: "lolwut?!" [/B]

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Same routine, different character.Fine, I show you symbiotes standing up to slashing, hacking and stabbing, and you're completely wrong. I'm not insulted that you set yourself up for that. I just expected more from you and find such assertions to be absolutely disingenuous. Which I don't respect.

Again strawmanning....

Venom the whole, and Carnage the whole can of course "stand up to" slashing and the like when it's topical, non-lethal damage.. no one said they couldn't and now you're just getting into semantics... but it DOES hurt them, it DOES wound them, and it DOES take it's toll on them. What I'm saying is that the durability afforded by the symbiote WILL NOT stop Sabretooth from cutting THROUGH the symbiote down to Cletus because that's the way they work. Always has been. Needle to the neck anyone?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Acting like Carnage isn't physically more durable than Sabretooth to the point where you're pretending Sabretooth is bullet-proof is so absurd, I can't even fault you for it.

Acting like Carnage's durability to blunt force somehow affords him an advantage against Sabretooth's claws that will completely bypass his suit ANYWAYS is what's REALLY absurd here.. Don't know what else to say really.. For someone who likes to site "on panel" so much you sure don't have a problem ignoring it. 😬

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And acting like a weakened Carnage, who had his entire symbiote manifestation blown off his body... and then him healing it in two panels completely.... that means Carnage can't heal? MORE absurdity. And Carnage dying... to Sentry = Sabretooth winning? You think Sabretooth survives getting ripped in half in outer space by Bob? lolwut? You. You don't have to GTFO. You stay. This is comedy gold.

Again Strawman.... I didn't say "Sentry killed Carnage so Sabretooth can"...

What I'm saying is that Carnage is a being whom in your opinion can tank vital/mortal damage... What did that healing factor do for him being ripped in half? Cause.... NOTHING by the looks of it.

If Sabretooth didn't need to rely on oxygen like Carnage... YES he could take being ripped in half and survive.
He's apparently healed from being mince meat on the floor. He's been stated repeatidly has being Wolverine's physical superior healing department included.. and Wolverine's been burned to the skeleton 4 times, beheaded, etc... Even Ultimate Wolvie tanked being ripped in half... Again this is stuff that SHOULDN'T be a surprise to you... but AGAIN.... whatever lengths you need to go to so you can pretend you have valid points I guess.

Originally posted by jinzin
The only reason why Venom was brought up by me was to disprove the myth that Carnage>Venom and Spiderman.
To which you tried to convince us all that Carnage has beaten Venom and Spiderman "multiple times" and his roughly equals with Venom.... In spite of Venom kicking his ass a majority of the time.
Then you wanted to bring him back into this debate because according to you he uses hack and slash meathods against Carnage in their fights (ignoring their rarity compared to him just pounding on Carnage.

Originally posted by jinzin
Again... considering that I've never said that....
What I've called into question is Carnage and his ability to take VITAL/MORTAL blows... is it even a question that not all of Sabretooth's blows will be lethal ones?
Again, false dychotomy. I guess that's what works for you though.

Maybe you should take your own advice. You're arguing that Carnage has agility and range to keep Sabretooth at bay. Those should be able to win Carnage some wins and in some cases level the playing field in the hack and slash game.

Again I've never laid out the one shot premise.. that WAS YOUR strawman.

I have never once said that Carnage would use his agility and range to keep Sabretooth outside of Sabes' melee range. Not even once. They'd be toe-to-toe hacking and slashing each other. I've never suggested otherwise. Keep your arguments and posters straight. Seriously.

Never laid out the one shot premise? lolwut?

Originally posted by jinzin
Again strawmanning.... Venom the whole, and Carnage the whole can of course "stand up to" slashing and the like when it's topical, non-lethal damage.. no one said they couldn't and now you're just getting into semantics... but it DOES hurt them, it DOES wound them, and it DOES take it's toll on them. What I'm saying is that the durability afforded by the symbiote WILL NOT stop Sabretooth from cutting THROUGH the symbiote down to Cletus because that's the way they work. Always has been. Needle to the neck anyone?

Uh.... Sabretooth HAS shown bullet-proof durability on several occasions.
And I only referenced that due to the fact that you apparently think that's enough occassions for something to happen against the grain to call it legit in a forum fight as per your vampiric touch BS.

Acting like Carnage's durability to blunt force somehow affords him an advantage against Sabretooth's claws that will completely bypass his suit ANYWAYS is what's REALLY absurd here.. Don't know what else to say really.. For someone who likes to site "on panel" so much you sure don't have a problem ignoring it.

Sabretooth is not bullet-proof. Bullets pierce his skin. facepalm

Carnage being bullet-proof and them literally not penetrating even the littlest bit is proof of Carnage's piercing durability. Not blunt durability. I am flabbergasted I am even having this argument it is so inconsequential and obvious... Christ.

Originally posted by jinzin
Oh for god sakes... Cletus didn't have to HEAL anything other than a gash on his face... which he didn't. That's not evidence of his healing factor for a host, its evidence of the symbiotes ability to reform after it's done being attacked.. nothing we haven't already covered.

Again Strawman.... I didn't say "Sentry killed Carnage so Sabretooth can"...

What I'm saying is that Carnage is a being whom in your opinion can tank vital/mortal damage... What did that healing factor do for him being ripped in half? Cause.... NOTHING by the looks of it.

If Sabretooth didn't need to rely on oxygen like Carnage... YES he could take being ripped in half and survive. He's apparently healed from being mince meat on the floor. He's been stated repeatidly has being Wolverine's physical superior healing department included.. and Wolverine's been burned to the skeleton 4 times, beheaded, etc... Even Ultimate Wolvie tanked being ripped in half... Again this is stuff that SHOULDN'T be a surprise to you... but AGAIN.... whatever lengths you need to go to so you can pretend you have valid points I guess.

Christ. You mentioned Sentry ripping him in half in outer space. Seriously. How the hell does that fact hurt Carnage here? I can't believe you really think Sabretooth would fair better if Sentry took him into outer space and tore him in half. This is damn idiotic. And Wolverine describing him as mince meat and holding several teeth in an off-panel fight in Chuck Austen's last issue on X-Men proves what exactly? Christ.

Originally posted by jinzin
The only reason why Venom was brought up by me was to disprove the myth that Carnage>Venom and Spiderman.
To which you tried to convince us all that Carnage has beaten Venom and Spiderman "multiple times" and his roughly equals with Venom.... In spite of Venom kicking his ass a majority of the time.
Then you wanted to bring him back into this debate because according to you he uses hack and slash meathods against Carnage in their fights (ignoring their rarity compared to him just pounding on Carnage.

Again... considering that I've never said that....
What I've called into question is Carnage and his ability to take VITAL/MORTAL blows... is it even a question that not all of Sabretooth's blows will be lethal ones? 😕
Again, false dychotomy. I guess that's what works for you though.

Maybe you should take your own advice. You're arguing that Carnage has agility and range to keep Sabretooth at bay. Those should be able to win Carnage some wins and in some cases level the playing field in the hack and slash game.

Again I've never laid out the one shot premise.. that WAS YOUR strawman. 😐

Again strawmanning....

Venom the whole, and Carnage the whole can of course "stand up to" slashing and the like when it's topical, non-lethal damage.. no one said they couldn't and now you're just getting into semantics... but it DOES hurt them, it DOES wound them, and it DOES take it's toll on them. What I'm saying is that the durability afforded by the symbiote WILL NOT stop Sabretooth from cutting THROUGH the symbiote down to Cletus because that's the way they work. Always has been. Needle to the neck anyone?

Uh.... Sabretooth HAS shown bullet-proof durability on several occasions. 😕
And I only referenced that due to the fact that you apparently think that's enough occassions for something to happen against the grain to call it legit in a forum fight as per your vampiric touch BS.

Acting like Carnage's durability to blunt force somehow affords him an advantage against Sabretooth's claws that will completely bypass his suit ANYWAYS is what's REALLY absurd here.. Don't know what else to say really.. For someone who likes to site "on panel" so much you sure don't have a problem ignoring it. 😬

Oh for god sakes... Cletus didn't have to HEAL anything other than a gash on his face... which he didn't. That's not evidence of his healing factor for a host, its evidence of the symbiotes ability to reform after it's done being attacked.. nothing we haven't already covered.

Again Strawman.... I didn't say "Sentry killed Carnage so Sabretooth can"...

What I'm saying is that Carnage is a being whom in your opinion can tank vital/mortal damage... What did that healing factor do for him being ripped in half? Cause.... NOTHING by the looks of it.

If Sabretooth didn't need to rely on oxygen like Carnage... YES he could take being ripped in half and survive.
He's apparently healed from being mince meat on the floor. He's been stated repeatidly has being Wolverine's physical superior healing department included.. and Wolverine's been burned to the skeleton 4 times, beheaded, etc... Even Ultimate Wolvie tanked being ripped in half... Again this is stuff that SHOULDN'T be a surprise to you... but AGAIN.... whatever lengths you need to go to so you can pretend you have valid points I guess.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Why did we stop with the summary format? It was definitely a nice change of pace. Dude, you and you alone were the only one who brought up "Carnage > Venom/Spiderman." You were the first person to mention Venom in the thread. I never said, nor do I see anybody in this thread argue "Carnage > Venom/Spiderman > Sabretooth" until you started bringing it up. YOU BROUGHT IT UP. You can keep pretending like you didn't get your wires crossed when you accused me of bringing Venom into this. Just drop the accusations of lying. Can you do that much? You never said that claws to the throat or guts wouldn't result in Carnage losing? And now I quote you: "Alternatively, one strike to the head, neck, or heart by Sabretooth could kill Cassidy" . . . "His symbiote will compensate for most types of damage and keep him fighting he's just not going to be tanking through vital shots." And when I commented on that, "I don't see Carnage being slashed in the throat as killing him. Forgive my disbelief," do you remember how you responded: "exactly, he'd be out of the fight."

I have never once said that Carnage would use his agility and range to keep Sabretooth outside of Sabes' melee range. Not even once. They'd be toe-to-toe hacking and slashing each other. I've never suggested otherwise. Keep your arguments and posters straight. Seriously.

Never laid out the one shot premise? lolwut? A needle, that penetrated his symbiote (arguably maybe his neck) with a special plot device chemical... and that proves what? Sabretooth can have his skin penetrated by having Venom stab him with a needle too y'know. And Carnage has had chemicals pumped into him at other times via darts and he's just fine. Fortunately, no plot device chemicals that screw with his symbiote. You want scans?

Sabretooth is not bullet-proof. Bullets pierce his skin. facepalm

Carnage being bullet-proof and them literally not penetrating even the littlest bit is proof of Carnage's piercing durability. Not blunt durability. I am flabbergasted I am even having this argument it is so inconsequential and obvious... Christ. Show me where after the symbiote reformed, Kassady's face was still bleeding. Otherwise, healing his entire symbiote instantly is an instance of healing IN FAVOR of Carnage's chances... it's not an instance that HURTS his chances! 😬

Christ. You mentioned Sentry ripping him in half in outer space. Seriously. How the hell does that fact hurt Carnage here? I can't believe you really think Sabretooth would fair better if Sentry took him into outer space and tore him in half. This is damn idiotic. And Wolverine describing him as mince meat and holding several teeth in an off-panel fight in Chuck Austen's last issue on X-Men proves what exactly? Christ.

mhmm

It's nice to see a good debate again.

They are cute to watch aren't they?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Why did we stop with the summary format? It was definitely a nice change of pace. Dude, you and you alone were the only one who brought up "Carnage > Venom/Spiderman." You were the first person to mention Venom in the thread. I never said, nor do I see anybody in this thread argue "Carnage > Venom/Spiderman > Sabretooth" until you started bringing it up. YOU BROUGHT IT UP. You can keep pretending like you didn't get your wires crossed when you accused me of bringing Venom into this. Just drop the accusations of lying. Can you do that much?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You never said that claws to the throat or guts wouldn't result in Carnage losing? And now I quote you: "Alternatively, one strike to the head, neck, or heart by Sabretooth could kill Cassidy" . . . "His symbiote will compensate for most types of damage and keep him fighting he's just not going to be tanking through vital shots." And when I commented on that, "I don't see Carnage being slashed in the throat as killing him. Forgive my disbelief," do you remember how you responded: "exactly, he'd be out of the fight."

DEAR F*CKING LORD! Are you being this dense on purpose? I mean are you just TRYING to get a rize out of me or do you think you're legitimately debating here?
You don't see the difference between an argument for Sabretooth striking Cletus in VITAL areas being different from you strawmanning my argument into "a single swipe will end it"? You don't see how that changes the context of me arguing a precision based shot versus you turning it into a generality of a single swipe period? And again... I've NEVER said that a gut shot should end Carnage.. How about you ARGUE against the points I've actually made? Oh that's right... you can't.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I have never once said that Carnage would use his agility and range to keep Sabretooth outside of Sabes' melee range. Not even once. They'd be toe-to-toe hacking and slashing each other. I've never suggested otherwise. Keep your arguments and posters straight. Seriously.

No, you implied that he would use them to keep Sabretooth from optimizing on his own speed and agility during the fight.. I agree with that in some situations.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Never laid out the one shot premise? lolwut? A needle, that penetrated his symbiote (arguably maybe his neck) with a special plot device chemical... and that proves what? Sabretooth can have his skin penetrated by having Venom stab him with a needle too y'know. And Carnage has had chemicals pumped into him at other times via darts and he's just fine. Fortunately, no plot device chemicals that screw with his symbiote. You want scans?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sabretooth is not bullet-proof. Bullets pierce his skin. facepalm

NO SHIT SHERLOCK! Way to miss the point....
sigh.. The thing is it's not as if Sabretooth DOESN'T have feats where he HAS proven bullet proof durability.. because quite frankly he has. You know he's not really bullet proof, I know he's not really bullet proof... but if you're going to get hung up on powers that showed up for one or two comics you need to realize that every character has points in their career where they do things that they haven't done before or since.. end of story.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Carnage being bullet-proof and them literally not penetrating even the littlest bit is proof of Carnage's piercing durability. Not blunt durability. I am flabbergasted I am even having this argument it is so inconsequential and obvious... Christ. Show me where after the symbiote reformed, Kassady's face was still bleeding. Otherwise, healing his entire symbiote instantly is an instance of healing IN FAVOR of Carnage's chances... it's not an instance that HURTS his chances! 😬

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Christ. You mentioned Sentry ripping him in half in outer space. Seriously. How the hell does that fact hurt Carnage here? I can't believe you really think Sabretooth would fair better if Sentry took him into outer space and tore him in half. This is damn idiotic. And Wolverine describing him as mince meat and holding several teeth in an off-panel fight in Chuck Austen's last issue on X-Men proves what exactly? Christ.

It proves that Sabretooth healed from being pieces unrecognizable on the floor... And even if you want to low ball that, it's STILL more evidence for Sabretooth than you have of Cletus tanking vital damage and being able to survive.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They are cute to watch aren't they?

lol

Originally posted by jinzin
If Sabretooth didn't need oxygen like Carnage... yes he would have faired better.... after being ripped in half... at LEAST he would have survived. AND healed...

Originally posted by Starscream M
no he wouldn't have. creed would've died as well. now you're just being fanboyish...😬

Wolverine has survived being Decapitated.
He's survived having half of his body literally steam rolled.
He's survived from one drop of blood,
From being burned to a skeleton.... 4 TIMES!

Sabretooth has on panel stated proof that his healing factor was even faster than Bone Claw Wolverine and that was two upgrades ago.

Sabretooth has reattached limbs effortlessly.

And again according to that comic survived being chunks of unrecognizble meat on the ground.
He's got up IMMEDIATELY after crash landing on earth from the upper stratosphere.

Ultimate Wolverine survived being ripped in half and his HF feats are WELL below that of his 616 counterparts.. you really think Sabretooth would do worse?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They are cute to watch aren't they?

Just good to see some familiar e-faces again.

Originally posted by jinzin
Dude.. really?

getting steamrolled when you have an adamntium skeleton that protects all your organs is not anywhere close.

Originally posted by jinzin
He's survived from one drop of blood,

Originally posted by Starscream M
yes really, sabretooth cannot survive getting ripped in half. nor can wolverine. hence wolverine's adamantium skeleton is SOOOOooo useful, because it prevents that very thing from happening.

getting steamrolled when you have an adamntium skeleton that protects all your organs is not anywhere close.

So you think Wolverine having to heal from a skeleton or Sabretooth having to heal from meat chunks is somehow worse than being ripped in half?

I'll ask you again, do you think Ultimate Wolverine has a better healing factor than his 616 counterparts?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Do you have a scan of that?

in his respect thread somewhere.

Originally posted by jinzin
So you think Wolverine having to heal from a skeleton or Sabretooth having to heal from meat chunks is somehow worse than being ripped in half?

I'll ask you again, do you think Ultimate Wolverine has a better healing factor than his 616 counterparts?

when has sabretooth heal from just a meat chunk?

Originally posted by Starscream M
ultimate wolverine has no relation to 616 sabretooth...so its not relevant to our discussion

when has sabretooth heal from just a meat chunk?

He has the same type of power and worse feats using it... it's completely relivent here...

Meat chunks.. it was an in X-men comic where Wolverine and Sabretooth had one of their last fights.. The X-men show up after the fight takes place off panel and ask where Sabretooth is, Wolverine's holding some teeth in his hand and tells them he's all around them in chunks here and there.