Sabretooth vs Carnage, who wins?

Originally posted by Starscream M
if it happened in space, it means sentry would toss sabretooth's two parts in opposite directions...meaning no chance he could heal

whys that hard to understand?

Why do you think Sabretooth needs to be put together to heal himself? We've already seen they (He and Wolverine) can heal from mince meat chunks... I really don't see what's so hard to get about that.

Originally posted by Mindset
Uh.... exactly my point.

His skeleton aided in his healing, not just the material left in his skull.

Originally posted by jinzin
Becuse you opted to keep using mutli-quote. I can understand why you said it was easier for you; namely because it keeps people from watching me prove how nearly every one of your statements/arguments is flawed.. You want to go back to summerizing.... have at it. Anyways... I brought it up to talk about how the myth was just that... a myth. YOU'RE the one who started using that myth/logic as if it meant something credible to this debate. It DOESN'T.

Yet another instance of you confusing me with yourself, just like how YOU brought up "Carnage > Venom/Spiderman" > Sabretooth and then started blaming me for it, and then, of all things, accused me of lying about it! When the hell in this thread did I argue that fight suggests Sabretooth loses? I pretty much dismissed any such argument outright as wholly unnecessary: "Also, Carnage doesn't need to be > Spiderman/Venom to beat Sabretooth. Roughly being equal to Venom is enough." That's on the 4th frikkin page! Stop projecting yourself onto me, christ.

Originally posted by jinzin
DEAR F*CKING LORD! Are you being this dense on purpose? I mean are you just TRYING to get a rize out of me or do you think you're legitimately debating here?
You don't see the difference between an argument for Sabretooth striking Cletus in VITAL areas being different from you strawmanning my argument into "a single swipe will end it"? You don't see how that changes the context of me arguing a precision based shot versus you turning it into a generality of a single swipe period? And again... I've NEVER said that a gut shot should end Carnage.. How about you ARGUE against the points I've actually made? Oh that's right... you can't.

"at bay" doesn't necessitate outside melee range... No, you implied that he would use them to keep Sabretooth from optimizing on his own speed and agility during the fight.. I agree with that in some situations.

If you agree with it in some situations, even going so far as to argue it would lead to some wins by Carnage (which even I haven't gone so far to argue), then why are you trying to throw it back in my face as an example of me not working things out in my head? I never even suggested that Carnage's ability and range on its own would net Carnage wins! Christ, almighty. Carnage, without his strength, malleable durability, and other traits would barely net one win by relying only on agility and ranged attacks against Creed. And on this, we can agree to disagree. Keep your arguments straight, seriously.

Originally posted by jinzin
RED HERRING ANYONE? Uh... dude the chemicals are a virtual non-factor to the argument that the needle is presenting... Again, how can you be this dense? The needle is simply proof that pinpoints and blades can but right through the symbiote to Cletus...

NO SHIT SHERLOCK! Way to miss the point....
sigh.. The thing is it's not as if Sabretooth DOESN'T have feats where he HAS proven bullet proof durability.. because quite frankly he has. You know he's not really bullet proof, I know he's not really bullet proof... but if you're going to get hung up on powers that showed up for one or two comics you need to realize that every character has points in their career where they do things that they haven't done before or since.. end of story.

If it's so obvious that Sabretooth is not bullet-proof... to the point where you feel it appropriate to insult me on how obvious it is, then stop bringing it up. Alternatively, if you're now instead trying to back-handedly insinuate that Carnage isn't bullet-proof, that's a loser of an argument on two levels. If you agree Sabretooth isn't bullet-proof and Carnage is, that's the end of this particular discussion. Whether you want to argue that doesn't clearly demonstrate Carnage's superior durability, I'll let you struggle with that.

Originally posted by jinzin
His symbiote reforming is NOT equal to Cletus himself healing a wound... I'm "flabbergasted" that you can't understand the difference between the two... It's utterly rediculous.
And Carnage being bullet proof is not evidence that Carnage is claw/blade/pinpoint proof.... So as I said pages ago... why bring it up? It's not important to this thread. It's as effective for your argument as me claiming to Sabretooth's ability to see in infa-red, or will his powers to shut down... Those are inconsequential to this thread and offer nothing to the actual fight taking place here..
Carnage can stop bullets? Good for him, he CAN'T and WON'T stop Sabretooth's claws... it's that simple.

Again how are you not grasping the POINT here?
It hurts your support for Carnage having some uber healing factor that he really doesn't posses...
And once again... If Sabretooth didn't need oxygen like Carnage... yes he would have faired better.... after being ripped in half... at LEAST he would have survived. AND healed...

It proves that Sabretooth healed from being pieces unrecognizable on the floor... And even if you want to low ball that, it's STILL more evidence for Sabretooth than you have of Cletus tanking vital damage and being able to survive.

Sentry takes Carnage to space, rips him in half. He dies. Sentry takes Carnage to space, rips him in half. He dies. Sorry you're trying to make the argument that Sabretooth would fare better. I'm not touching that with a 10 ft. pole...

... especially when you try to rely on hyperbolic off-panel feats like this. Sabretooth was not reduced to little bits of flesh. Wolverine described Sabretooth as being in pieces all over the places with a big ole sh1t-eating grin on his face due to an off-panel fight. Sabretooth is, in fact, off-panel when Wolvie says this. Wolverine holds some of his teeth. And you're trying to suggest that Sabretooth was actually diced up like an onion Iron Chef-style? And that he either, pulled his lil bits back together, or grew a new Sabretooth out of one of those tiny bits? Comedy. Gold.

Originally posted by jinzin
I could understand that point holding if the Adamantium Bones were organic... but their not. 😕

I could understand your point if his bones were made entirely of adamantium... but they're not.

Originally posted by jinzin
I could understand that point holding if the Adamantium Bones were organic... but their not. 😕

Originally posted by batdude123
I could understand your point if his bones were made entirely of adamantium... but they're not.

They are organic enough to produce that drop of blood you're so fond of.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Excuse me? I said I'd follow your lead. And I pretty much did. And how is my accepting YOUR desire to summarize reflect my fear of how multiquoting might expose how points are individually rebutted? It was YOUR suggestion in the first place! And apparently I didn't even take it! Boy, is somebody projecting their insecurities onto me, or what?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yet another instance of you confusing me with yourself, just like how YOU brought up "Carnage > Venom/Spiderman" > Sabretooth and then started blaming me for it, and then, of all things, accused me of lying about it! When the hell in this thread did I argue that fight suggests Sabretooth loses? I pretty much dismissed any such argument outright as wholly unnecessary:

You flat out said that Carnage has beaten Spiderman and Venom multiple times.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"Also, Carnage doesn't need to be > Spiderman/Venom to beat Sabretooth. Roughly being equal to Venom is enough." That's on the 4th frikkin page! Stop projecting yourself onto me, christ.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I never accused you of suggesting that Sabretooth only has to attempt one swing and the fight is over.

YOU JUST SAID THAT NOT TWO POSTS AGO! Good lord! It's like trying to argue against multiple personalities over here. lmao!!!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm accusing you of saying that if Sabretooth managed a shot to the throat and gut, Carnage would be put down and the fight'd be over. And that's EXACTLY what you said: "Alternatively, one strike to the head, neck, or heart by Sabretooth could kill Cassidy." And again, when I commented on that, "I don't see Carnage being slashed in the throat as killing him. Forgive my disbelief," this is EXACTLY how you repsonded: "exactly, he'd be out of the fight." I am not straw-manning you. You're just quaneuvering. Badly.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you agree with it in some situations, even going so far as to argue it would lead to some wins by Carnage (which even I haven't gone so far to argue), then why are you trying to throw it back in my face as an example of me not working things out in my head? I never even suggested that Carnage's ability and range on its own would net Carnage wins! Christ, almighty.

Pretty simple really.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Carnage, without his strength, malleable durability, and other traits would barely net one win by relying only on agility and ranged attacks against Creed. And on this, we can agree to disagree. Keep your arguments straight, seriously. First off, Venom stabbing a needle into Carnage =/= Sabretooth winning. I never agreed to your notion that damaging Cletus, who has the symbiote bonded to him on a cellular level, means Carnage loses. It's not a god damn suit.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If it's so obvious that Sabretooth is not bullet-proof... to the point where you feel it appropriate to insult me on how obvious it is, then stop bringing it up.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Alternatively, if you're now instead trying to back-handedly insinuate that Carnage isn't bullet-proof, that's a loser of an argument on two levels. If you agree Sabretooth isn't bullet-proof and Carnage is, that's the end of this particular discussion. Whether you want to argue that doesn't clearly demonstrate Carnage's superior durability, I'll let you struggle with that. STRAW-MAN. I NEVER said Carnage being bullet-proof made him claw/needle proof. I said Carnage has superior durability over Sabretooth because Carnage is bullet-proof and Sabretooth isn't. Are you seriously trying to take ME to task over straw-mans?

I said this several pages ago... Carnage is bullet proof.. it's not a demonstration of durability that will matter in THIS fight in THIS thread against THIS opponent... You keep yammering on how he has bullet proof durability and thus is more durable to piercing damage... NOT IN THIS FIGHT... Your argument necessitates that you think being bullet proof MATTERS here and it doesn't.... I asked why you brought it up at all and all you did was restate your position over and over... Bullet proof is inconsequential in THIS THREAD... so drop it already. Geez.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sentry takes Carnage to space, rips him in half. He dies. Sentry takes Carnage to space, rips him in half. He dies. Sorry you're trying to make the argument that Sabretooth would fare better. I'm not touching that with a 10 ft. pole...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
... especially when you try to rely on hyperbolic off-panel feats like this. Sabretooth was not reduced to little bits of flesh. Wolverine described Sabretooth as being in pieces all over the places with a big ole sh1t-eating grin on his face due to an off-panel fight. Sabretooth is, in fact, off-panel when Wolvie says this. Wolverine holds some of his teeth. And you're trying to suggest that Sabretooth was actually diced up like an onion Iron Chef-style? And that he either, pulled his lil bits back together, or grew a new Sabretooth out of one of those tiny bits? Comedy. Gold.

Again... Sabretooth has... EFFORTLESSLY reattached limbs in an instant... since childhood.
He has tanked hitting the earth from the upper stratosphere being nothing but a husk of meat and broken bone and got up IMMEDIATELY shortly after his HF was stated as working at less than 90%.
He's got up IMMEDIATELY, from being nearly burned to his skeleton.

He's been stated repeatidly as being a physical superior to Wolverine who has a whole slew of feats overshadowing being ripped in half, even AFTER the Guggenhiem arc.

Wolverine said he chopped Sabretooth to chunks on the ground, but because it's convenient to your argument that's not what really happened... 🙄

And of course Sabretooth couldn't heal from chunks or from one half of his body.. I mean it's not like their healing factor is in every cell of their body, not like Sabretooth's recovered from death before just like Wolverine, not like it took the muramasa to finally kill him... or like he tanked having his arm taken off with it and just stood there looking at it... 😐

Originally posted by Mindset
^This.

They are organic enough to produce that drop of blood you're so fond of.

Perhaps.
I'll remind you that Guggenhiem did state it was likely tissue in WOlverine's skull that allowed him to heal back...

More to the point, would you say this feat is less impressive than Logan healing from being ripped in half?

Going by that shouldn't we have like millions of Wolverines in Marvel?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Going by that shouldn't we have like millions of Wolverines in Marvel?

lol I know right? it doesn't make any sense to me either... but that's how the cookie crumbles when your writing superhero bullshit for a living I guess.

Although........ Now that I think about it........

IT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING!

How Wolverine can be on the X-men, New Avengers, X-Force, Defenders (MTU), time traveling, in hell, fighting weapon X's, and running around in Origins all at the same time! It's all so clear now.

Originally posted by jinzin
lol I know right? it doesn't make any sense to me either... but that's how the cookie crumbles when your writing superhero bullshit for a living I guess.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Yeah I've never heard of the blood drop feat before, burned to the skeleton yeah but just a drop of blood is a bit extreme even for him. Before that my own explanation was more or less his brain, it's protected in his adamantium skull and after the damage was done it started to regenarte, would even make sense cause your personality is in your brain but now everything is out of the window...

he did say it required a surplus of energy... maybe his brain has that energy?

Originally posted by jinzin
Why do you think Sabretooth needs to be put together to heal himself? We've already seen they (He and Wolverine) can heal from mince meat chunks...

if you have, show me the scan or point to the issue # where we see logan or sabretooth healing from mince meat chunks

Originally posted by Starscream M
no we haven't SEEN that.

if you have, show me the scan or point to the issue # where we see logan or sabretooth healing from mince meat chunks

Originally posted by jinzin
are you seriously going to argue there was more than that when Logan healed from a skeleton? Seriously?

going from meat chunks to healing from a skeleton (which I never argued)?

Originally posted by Starscream M
so now you're backtracking?

going from meat chunks to healing from a skeleton (which I never argued)?

Sabretooth's already said to have healed from meat chunks. You nay-say it because it was off panel... in spite of Wolverine healing from less.... That's not backtracking it's pointing out a massive FLAW in your logic.

Originally posted by jinzin
Sabretooth's already said to have healed from meat chunks. You nay-say it because it was off panel... in spite of Wolverine healing from less.... That's not backtracking it's pointing out a massive FLAW in your logic.

if you have a skeleton, you already have the basic framework

its much harder to form yourself entirely from a chunk of meat...which I doubt ever happened anyways

Originally posted by Starscream M
healing from a skeleton is not less healing than healing from a chunk of meat

if you have a skeleton, you already have the basic framework

its much harder to form yourself entirely from a chunk of meat...which I doubt ever happened anyways

The METAL SKELETON does not contribute to his healing factor. His tissue does.. hell the writer even said that..

Though I agree having the framework makes it easier for the HF not to have to regrow bones.. which we ALSO know Wolverine can already do. 😐

Originally posted by jinzin
The METAL SKELETON does not contribute to his healing factor. His tissue does.. hell the writer even said that..

Though I agree having the framework makes it easier for the HF not to have to regrow bones.. which we ALSO know Wolverine can already do. 😐

so this healing from a chunk of meat is pure garbage you're making up

Originally posted by Starscream M
first of all, creed and logan needs the base spinal cord and skull in order to heal

so this healing from a chunk of meat is pure garbage you're making up

Making up? It was stated in a comic... Good lord.

Oh really? Is that why Logan healed from a drop of blood? Because he needed to base spinal cord and skull? interesting...

talk about making shit up...

What kind of shape was his spinal cord in when he got decapped.. oh that's right according to you somebody off panel, not mentioned in the story reattached Logan's head for him... 🙄