http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9324/nulvsavengers4.jpg
My bootleg computer isn't letting me post the rest.
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9324/nulvsavengers4.jpg
My bootleg computer isn't letting me post the rest.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He was trying to disable him - and given how effortlessly Nul tore through those nets, it should have been simple for WWH to break Wolvie's arms and legs, or even his claws off. What is Wolverine, after all, without his claws? Wolverine isn't healing back from a broken leg, if the adamantium is like a cast around his bones at 90 degrees.I agree. Which is why I am using breaking adamantium as a yardstick, as they both went up against it.
Never said that. More formidable, due to IMO being stronger, and a magical dimension to his power plus a hammer, which are undeniable.
I think it was all in the mentality. Nul at one point was not in control. WW Hulk was, and did not want to kill Logan. I don't know man, the Hulk is a very hard character to pin down due to the dynamic strength issue. Nul was certainly more powerful due to the plot hammer, even though he didn't look as impressive, or have as many great eye popping feats. Whatevas though.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No worries...lol@bootleg computer though....Tbh, ALL Hulks have terrible durability, and Spiderwoman can be quite powerful with her blasts, so that's no low showings...
She couldn't do a thing to WWH though which is my point. She was basically useless during their encounter and she had help.
Originally posted by Stoic
I think it was all in the mentality. Nul at one point was not in control. WW Hulk was, and did not want to kill Logan. I don't know man, the Hulk is a very hard character to pin down due to the dynamic strength issue. Nul was certainly more powerful due to the plot hammer, even though he didn't look as impressive, or have as many great eye popping feats. Whatevas though.
Yeah, its because Nul was in a group book (Worthys), and so they couldn't show them all having eye popper feats, whereas WWH was all set up to be a showcase of eye poppers. And yes, he wasn't trying to kill him, but disable him. So snap those claws off.
This doesn't include the fact that Ms. Marvel was tossing Nul everywhere...through buildings, gas containers, through more buildings, etc, but when she was pitted against Skaar that was amped to 100 trillion ton level, she couldn't even budge him and she had the aid of the Avengers and the Fantastic four but WWH, a PISSED WWH overpowered this same Skaar with one hand while mocking his strength.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Considering it was WWH who picked up the hammer I don't see why not.Even if he wasn't so what? Hulk isn't as directly dependent on anger like he was in WWH. He was turning into WBH from Banner at the drop of a hat. He didn't have to have huge revelation and his best friend stabbed to get to those levels anymore.
The whole of Paks run was one big story and as anyone who has read Incredible Hulk besides the standout arcs would know, he had built up the anger ever since the "Dark Son" storyline. From having to basically kill his own son (Dark Son), he and his Hulk family help saving the world only to be disrespected by the Greek Pantheon (Chaos War), to having to abandon another son (Skaar: Savage Land), finally ending with Betty betraying him for his arch nemesis and Arm'Chedons attempted murder of his best friend and cousin (HotM).
Those are more than enough grounds for Banner/Hulk to fly into an uber rage and allow himself to go nuclear like he did in Heart of the Monster.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
While I can understand the confusion because of the Pak Force, your above post kind of proves you are a little ignorant of his stories besides the two wankfests that were WWH and HotM.The whole of Paks run was one big story and as anyone who has read Incredible Hulk besides the standout arcs would know, he had built up the anger ever since the "Dark Son" storyline. From having to basically kill his own son (Dark Son), he and his Hulk family help saving the world only to be disrespected by the Greek Pantheon (Chaos War), to having to abandon another son (Skaar: Savage Land), finally ending with Betty betraying him for his arch nemesis and Arm'Chedons attempted murder of his best friend and cousin (HotM).
Those are more than enough grounds for Banner/Hulk to fly into an uber rage and allow himself to go nuclear like he did in Heart of the Monster.
Well thank you for proving my point without a shadow of a doubt. For whatever reason then, Hulk didn't need to be visibly aggravated to have the power then. Since according to you he can call on that anger when need be. Meaning he was for all intentions and purposes at a constant WWH while in his green scar persona. So if this was intended to somehow prove me wrong, it's flopped and just confirmed that I'm right.
Because no matter what you or anyone else says logic won't go away so Hulk fans can try and hide that their boy had the trouble he did with an injured Thor while he was powered up and had a buddy to help him.
No one receives amps and becomes weaker. I have no idea how people convince themselves or think that or for some reason think they're clever by denying that.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Well thank you for proving my point without a shadow of a doubt. For whatever reason then, Hulk didn't need to be visibly aggravated to have the power then. Since according to you he can call on that anger when need be. Meaning he was for all intentions and purposes at a constant WWH while in his green scar persona. So if this was intended to somehow prove me wrong, it's flopped and just confirmed that I'm right.Because no matter what you or anyone else says logic won't go away so Hulk fans can try and hide that their boy had the trouble he did with an injured Thor while he was powered up and had a buddy to help him.
No one receives amps and becomes weaker. I have no idea how people convince themselves or think that or for some reason think they're clever by denying that.
I'm not interested in your Thor/Hulk rivalry with the Hulk fans, if your going to make bold but misinformed claims like you did at least know all the facts first.
In each of those instances Hulk still needed a catalyst to be enraged. Pak's stories concluded in Heart of the Monster when he unleashed that built up rage over the attempted murder of She-Hulk and Rick. Fear Itself is set months after the events of HotM, Banner & Betty had since moved on from that. For your claim to be true he would literally need to walk around at WWH levels, even after just transforming which is quite retarded actually considering his powerset and how powerful he was in that arc.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Seriously are you purposefully being ignorant?I'm not interested in your Thor/Hulk rivalry with the Hulk fans, if your going to make bold but misinformed claims like you did at least know all the facts first.
In each of those instances Hulk still needed a catalyst to be enraged. Pak's stories concluded in Heart of the Monster when he unleashed that built up rage over the attempted murder of She-Hulk and Rick. Fear Itself is set months after the events of HotM, Banner & Betty had since moved on from that. For your claim to be true he would literally need to walk around at WWH levels, even after just transforming which is quite retarded actually considering his powerset and how powerful he was in that arc.
Cut the crap Sorrow. This is starting to get sad. 😬 What exactly have I said that is so ignorant in your eyes hm? Lets look at the facts: WWH felt more pain and anger than he had ever felt before. After the whole ordeal he received two more shots of pain, his first friend on Sakaar killing his wife and newfound world, and his first friend ever being stabbed infront of him. Then we see the first appearance of WBH. From that point on the pain traveled with him as we see him unleash WBH in his first confrontation with Skaar and then Banner reigns it in. Once again, he went from Savage Hulk levels to WBH levels in a second. Why? Because he carried the anger with him. He doesn't have to be constantly prodded to have that anger surge and have his powers unleashed. No one forgets about the hell he's been through. Suggesting that he can somehow settle down from that and now has weakened into "family man" levels is in your words "quite retarded" Sorrow. It's a typical argument used to save face for his losses.
After WWH, and after Loeb being an idiot with him, he stayed in permanent Green Scar persona. Green Scar/WWH is his base now. He's always at those levels. Obviously like any other Hulk, his power will vary from time to time because like you said thats part of his powerset. But nothing at all suggests that he wouldn't be capable of WWH levels or that he isn't at them. His anger comes with him. And from his later WWH showings in HOTM he can be at those levels and laughing his ass of. Not just constant snarling rage. He was smiling even as WBH. And unless Hulk's some sort of psychopath I'm going to assume he's got better control of his anger and can amp just fine without having to go on a planet challenging hissyfit. Which seems to be what you and other Hulk fans needed to see in order to confirm Nul was > WWH. Another version of WWH.
Too bad. As long as you argue points that have no saving for him you're a part of it. Like that an increase to his power weakens him.
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Ya but one could argue that hulk was stilla mpped when he broke the hammer
As for the "amp", it was no more than Nul. It didn't operate separate of Nul, which is why when Nul was expelled he managed to carry on with his rampage without Hulk's body.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Cut the crap Sorrow. This is starting to get sad. 😬 What exactly have I said that is so ignorant in your eyes hm? Lets look at the facts: WWH felt more pain and anger than he had ever felt before. After the whole ordeal he received two more shots of pain, his first friend on Sakaar killing his wife and newfound world, and his first friend ever being stabbed infront of him. Then we see the first appearance of WBH. From that point on the pain traveled with him as we see him unleash WBH in his first confrontation with Skaar and then Banner reigns it in. Once again, he went from Savage Hulk levels to WBH levels in a second. Why? Because he carried the anger with him. He doesn't have to be constantly prodded to have that anger surge and have his powers unleashed. No one forgets about the hell he's been through. Suggesting that he can somehow settle down from that and now has weakened into "family man" levels is in your words "quite retarded" Sorrow. It's a typical argument used to save face for his losses.After WWH, and after Loeb being an idiot with him, he stayed in permanent Green Scar persona. Green Scar/WWH is his base now. He's always at those levels. Obviously like any other Hulk, his power will vary from time to time because like you said thats part of his powerset. But nothing at all suggests that he wouldn't be capable of WWH levels or that he isn't at them. His anger comes with him. And from his later WWH showings in HOTM he can be at those levels and laughing his ass of. Not just constant snarling rage. He was smiling even as WBH. And unless Hulk's some sort of psychopath I'm going to assume he's got better control of his anger and can amp just fine without having to go on a planet challenging hissyfit. Which seems to be what you and other Hulk fans needed to see in order to confirm Nul was > WWH. Another version of WWH.
Too bad. As long as you argue points that have no saving for him you're a part of it. Like that an increase to his power weakens him.
It was never disputed, at least by me, that Hulk can replicate his feats from WWH if he grew angry enough but he still needs a catalyst, you claimed Hulk's dynamic strength is no longer dependent on his emotional state which makes no sense at all. Basically you believe Hulk can essentially will himself to any level which is not the case:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/7276562/05-11-2011_16.jpg.html
Smiling? Seriously? That classes as proof for you? Apparently it's somehow impossible for one who handles rage on a different scale to not take pleasure in lashing out :/ That was one of the main points of the HotM.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
That particular story concluded at the end of IH #611, Green Scar had released all that pent up anger in his fight with Skaar and they made up. He certainly seemed to be over Caieira when he tried to get back with Betty two issues later. Greg Pak moved the story on from Caiera's death after the Skaar fight.It was never disputed, at least by me, that Hulk can replicate his feats from WWH if he grew angry enough but he still needs a catalyst, you claimed Hulk's dynamic strength is no longer dependent on his emotional state which makes no sense at all. Basically you believe Hulk can essentially will himself to any level which is not the case:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/7276562/05-11-2011_16.jpg.htmlSmiling? Seriously? That classes as proof for you? Apparently it's somehow impossible for one who handles rage on a different scale to not take pleasure in lashing out :/ That was one of the main points of the HotM.
So we ignore characters' history after a certain point? K....I don't know if you come from some sort of phucked up family that forgets about loved ones' murders quickly and moves on when a new piece of tail comes along, but PERSONALLY I wouldn't. 😐 And I think it's pretty ridiculous to suggest the HUlk would. Especially with the strong family ties he had developed.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Considering it was WWH who picked up the hammer I don't see why not.Even if he wasn't so what? Hulk isn't as directly dependent on anger like he was in WWH. He was turning into WBH from Banner at the drop of a hat. He didn't have to have huge revelation and his best friend stabbed to get to those levels anymore.
Where did I say that he's no longer dependent on his emotions. Oh that's right I didn't. 😬 He still is, but it's pretty obvious from his showings that he had more control of it. As in he can make his anger go farther. Which is why he's able to hit WBH from Banner on the drop of a hat, instead of having to sizzle for two comic mini series' until he finally reaches that level. How is this even debatable to you?
Do you not see the fault in your argument? You admit he handles rage on a different scale, then in the same post say he requires a catalyst to do it. You talk about the history that he has and why he can so easily turn to WBH levels, but he still needs a brand new fresh catalyst to do it again....it's actually astonishing.
We see him laughing and performing WWH feats while still controlling his anger and amping easily, yet he still is just as directly dependant on anger as ever. The point is he's not. It's the source of power, but he can amp easier off it and make it go farther than before. Just accept it no? Again There's no reason for WWH to receive amps to his power and become weaker. It's a basic concept that seems to be lost on some.
Originally posted by Damborgson
So we ignore characters' history after a certain point? K....I don't know if you come from some sort of phucked up family that forgets about loved ones' murders quickly and moves on when a new piece of tail comes along, but PERSONALLY I wouldn't. 😐 And I think it's pretty ridiculous to suggest the HUlk would. Especially with the strong family ties he had developed.Where did I say that he's no longer dependent on his emotions. Oh that's right I didn't. 😬 He still is, but it's pretty obvious from his showings that he had more control of it. As in he can make his anger go farther. Which is why he's able to hit WBH from Banner on the drop of a hat, instead of having to sizzle for two comic mini series' until he finally reaches that level. How is this even debatable to you?
Do you not see the fault in your argument? You admit he handles rage on a different scale, then in the same post say he requires a catalyst to do it. You talk about the history that he has and why he can so easily turn to WBH levels, but he still needs a brand new fresh catalyst to do it again....it's actually astonishing.
We see him laughing and performing WWH feats while still controlling his anger and amping easily, yet he still is just as directly dependant on anger as ever. The point is he's not. It's the source of power, but he can amp easier off it and make it go farther than before. Just accept it no? Again There's no reason for WWH to receive amps to his power and become weaker. It's a basic concept that seems to be lost on some.
Yes that's exactly what you claimed here:
Originally posted by Damborgson
Considering it was WWH who picked up the hammer I don't see why not.Even if he wasn't so what? Hulk isn't as directly dependent on anger like he was in WWH. He was turning into WBH from Banner at the drop of a hat. He didn't have to have huge revelation and his best friend stabbed to get to those levels anymore.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Not anymore it doesn't. Banner became WBH at the drop of a hat during HOTM. His anger doesn't directly affect his powers anymore. He's still at WWH levels. Arguing against that is just the hulk fans' way of giving an excuse for their boy when he looses. If he does poorly or not at the level he's expected he obviously wasn't angry enough and therefore the loss doesn't count. It's a weak obvious argument that keeps being used by people no matter how flawed because it's easier than dealing with reality.
Hiroim showed Hulk how to better channel his rage so he could keep a (relatively) cool head rather than become a mindless beast when extremely angry. It didn't change his core powerset, this was explained in WWH: World Breaker prologue. I'd still like to see these scans of Hulk being "WWH level" at base or no longer needing strong motivation to become that powerful. Otherwise it's time to concede you were wrong.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
These are comicbook characters not real people, different writers have their own story to tell. Greg Pak showed us Hulk moving on when he tried to get back with Betty and re-unite with his family. In a fight with Betty she asked: "still crying about your alien queen?", Hulk's reply: "Pft, this about my son", and telling her to calm down. That's a stark contrast to the Green Scar personas re-emergence in #611 where he was " still insane with rage" over her death.Yes that's exactly what you claimed here:
And here:
Your so invested in the Thor/Hulk rivalry I don't even think you pay attention to how biased you come across at times. It's okay though keep backtracking, your just undermining your whole arguement.
Hiroim showed Hulk how to better channel his rage so he could keep a (relatively) cool head rather than become a mindless beast when extremely angry. It didn't change his core powerset, this was explained in WWH: World Breaker prologue. I'd still like to see these scans of Hulk being "WWH level" at base or no longer needing strong motivation to become that powerful. Otherwise it's time to concede you were wrong.
I'm glad you were able to figure that out, but that isn't how things were done. You'd need solid proof and you don't have it. I guess he could just break down and let loose all that anger against Betty. "YES I AM! AND I'll KILL YOU IF YOU SPEAK OF IT AGAIN!" 😬 c'mon man, this is hard reaching.
key word being "as" which is why I underlined it. He isn't "as" affected as he used to be.
I do know you're confusion now though since I made the mistake of not repeating "as affected" but I'm telling you now that what I'm saying and what was supposed to come across, which is why I quoted it. But for the confusion I apologize.
You trying to take the conversation another route to try and hide how stupid it is to believe that something that amplifies strength can actually make you weaker doesn't mean I'm being bias. I've given credit where credit is due, and I've told you why I believe about the Hulk having better control of his anger and going farther. There's nothing to undermine at this point anyway since you already lost and are now desperately trying to hold on to an almost baseless argument to try and make sense out of something that under your way of seeing it just doesn't make sense.
Which is exactly why he knows how to control it better? Sweet Jesus Sorrow you're almost arguing against yourself.
Not only did I agree it was his powerset but I agreed that he still needs anger just that he can control it better and make it go farther. I already explained why so you pretending you lost the ability to read isn't a valid response anymore. You have nothing, and are pushing faulty points, and I'd gladly admit I was wrong if I was, but I'm not. You are, and I've already told you why.
Originally posted by janus77HE was expelled once it was crush Hulk's mind overrided Nul entity. SO Hulk was now incharge of his ampped self. If it was the way you say once Hulk took control of his body he should of reverted back to his normal form, This didn't happen until after the hammer was crushed
So the Nul entity wanted to smash his own hammer?
Makes no sense; The only reason Nul was in control of Hulk was the hammer's enchantment. So, in order to break the hammer, Hulk would have to fight-back Nul's control.As for the "amp", it was no more than Nul. It didn't operate separate of Nul, which is why when Nul was expelled he managed to carry on with his rampage without Hulk's body.
