Purple on Purple Crime

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Once again, voltage does not in any way, shape or form cause anything more than pain. It cannot damage you. Ask any electrician.

The Man: Apparently you failed to read through my post carefully. Voltage determines the intensity of the current. They're directly proportional, the higher the voltage, the more intense the current, which does kill you.

The Man: Don't be ridiculous. The volts determine how forcefully the current is emitted. The volts, alone, don't have any physical effect on you, so you labelling them harmless in the way that you're doing sounds just silly. The amps are what technically kill you, yes, I never denied that, but the voltage is fully proportional with the intensity of the current emitted, and in a million volt stun gun, the intensity can easily kill someone if targeted at an organ such as the heart.

Learn to read before engaging in arguments.

Black market Tasers? LOL. Let me guess, you also think we didn't land on the moon and the government is responsible for 9-11. You're a joke, noobaris.

Clearly you're not quite the expert you'd have us believe if you don't know anything about the illegal trade of continuous current emission tasers. Google is your [very breast] friend.

I actually found a video of the man being "tasered to death"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/15/world/main3504859.shtml

And here is the response by then taser company

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=129937&p=NewsArticle&id=1079167
Here is a little piece of what the company said
"This tragic incident appears to follow the pattern of many in-custody deaths or deaths following a confrontation with police. Historically, medical science and forensic analysis has shown that these deaths are attributable to other factors and not the low-energy electrical discharge of the TASER(r). Specifically in Canada, while previous incidents were widely reported in the media as 'TASER deaths,' the role of the TASER device has been cleared in every case to date -- including the widely publicized Bagnell in-custody death in Vancouver where the TASER device was cleared by an inquest jury."

"Cardiac arrest caused by electrical current is immediate. The video of the incident at the Vancouver airport indicates that the subject was continuing to fight well after the TASER application. This continuing struggle could not be possible if the subject died as a result of the TASER device electrical current causing cardiac arrest. His continuing struggle is proof that the TASER device was not the cause of his death. Further, the video clearly shows symptoms of excited delirium, a potentially fatal condition marked by symptoms of exhaustion and mania such as heavy breathing, profuse sweating, confusion, disorientation and violence toward inanimate objects."

It is also worth pointing out that taser "deaths" while may occur in some shape of form(ex. causing cardiac arrest) appear to be in the minority.

Here is more info on tasers killing people and in it the article says that about 300 people are killed after being tasered though from what I gather from the article is it is unknown how they die.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/25/national/main3537803.shtml

Originally posted by OmegaSupreme
The part of their fight that was on even footing, and the only part where a comparison can be drawn between the two comparisons in respect to their overall ability.

And? How is this supposed to counter anything I just said? You can overpower someone who's not utilising their full power, which is what you have to prove the opposite of for your argument to remain standing, which you can't do.

Not one source of which the statement is question has been completely conclusive, and been presented from an infallible source.

No. You made the point, and you've yet to prove up, ergo the BoP is still on you.

Not exactly a valid counter argument there Dave. It's directly stated, in Ro2, to be "virtually indestructible," and lightning is it's only known weakness. The blade of a lightsaber is completely worthless against it, ergo, in a battle with Mace (the only way he can tangibly attack bane is with his lightsaber, or with TK, that we know of), for all intents and purposes, it is completely indestructible.

[quoteIrrelevant misdirection. It's not an advantage that Mace would have over Bane.[/quote]
So you say.

Also, what you'd call an unsupported assumption. Bane's orbalisk armour, plus his general increase in ability could easily be enough to compensate for his lack of knowledge of Kas'im's style, so it's hardly cut and dry.

Please. I'd rate the guy who fancies himself an expert on lightning above you. You're probably the worst on this entire forum that actually thinks he's good, and I'm actually speaking the truth.

Erm, no. It's a logical fallacy regardless of who or what it's directed at. Know what you're talking about. [/B]

No Noobaris. If there is no argument present (which in your case, there usually never is), it's called an insult. It becomes a fallacy when I attack you instead of your position. Since you don't have any kind of logical argument going on, it is called an insult. Go back to the drawing board.

Good lord, noobaris, you're beyond stupid.

I don't see what the argument regarding the lightsaber duel is about; Kas'im had Darth Bane scrambling and on the defensive the second that he unleashed a variant of a form that Bane was unfamiliar with. Mace Windu is the undisputed master of the most lethal and difficult form -- canonically -- his form and technique are better than Bane's own. Especially once you factor in that Bane is a dark sider. I'm sorry, but there won't be any pwnage on Bane's behalf with a lightsaber, even if one includes orbalisks.

We know escape, we know.

Except the burden of proof is on you. It's hilarious how you go with the imaginary theory of Palpatine "faking" it when GL stated the complete opposite. Since facts are against you, you lose again. But I suppose that went right over your head.

Truth be told I've also always been a bit suspicious of that fight myself. However, If GL himself staed that Sidious really got beat then it must be true.
IF.

You would be speaking the truth if anybody agreed with you, if you had any credibility on this forum, if you've ever won a debate, etc. But you fail at A, B, and C.

You seem to be forgetting me.

Especially once you factor in that Bane is a dark sider

One of the first points that I made was that Bane's orbalisks absorb the Dark side which is exactly what Vaapad utilises.

Mace Windu is the undisputed master of the most lethal and difficult form -- canonically -- his form and technique are better than Bane's own.

A) Sidious was able to counter it effectively so it stands to reason that Bane should.
B) It was stated in POD that the forms are secondary compared to someones force mastery. Everyone here agrees that Bane is the better force user so suck on that.
C) The unfimiliarity of Mace's style would be countered by Bane's own. When has Mace ever fought someone who could block with his crotch.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
They were on equal footing when Kas'im unleashed hell. Try again.

No, they were not, because Kas'im was utilising a completely unfamiliar weapon against Bane, when he "unleashed hell," one with which he had mastered and been in the process of perfecting every single form of the lightsaber with, and one which he could perform millions of combinations with that were all completely alien to Bane. [Dave]Try again.[/Dave]

Except the burden of proof is on you.

No, it's still on you, because you made the claim, and have yet to prove up.

It's hilarious how you go with the imaginary theory of Palpatine "faking" it

Quote me for truth or quit making shit up. I'm simply open to the possibility of it, I never once said that it was definitely my stance.

when GL stated the complete opposite.

No. Saying that Mace overpowered Sidious does not deny the possibility that Sidious was holding back, and is certainly not the opposite.

Since facts are against you, you lose again. But I suppose that went right over your head.

It surely would have given the awe inspiring complexity of your joke there, but after using it about 500 times I think even fascistcrusader started to get it.

No no, just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it false.

Right, because you simply saying such makes it the case, right? Post any of the statements, prove that it's being given by an infallible source, prove the canonicity of it, prove that it's completely conclusive, and then prove that it coincides with your argument. Do all of that, or drop the point.

That's a huge reason why you've been banned 30+ times.

Yeah, because that's why Rex bans me. The sad thing is, there's only one time I ever recall someone being banned based on how they argue, and that would be you, by Illustrious.

yet again, it's already been proven and you continue to ignore facts. Another 30 bans and maybe you'll start arguing logically.

Let's pretend I haven't seen this "proof." Show it to me, or drop the point.

Please quantify "virtually indestructible".

It was already further elaborated on, so no. Obviously "virtually" is ambiguous, so it's not possible. Point is, my original claim (which you disagreed with), that the orbalisks makes him nearly physically invincible (which is exactly the same as being virtually indestructible), stands given canon narration.

Furthermore, Bane LOVES to use his force lightning

We argue based on whether or not the combatants have the means to defeat the other, not what they would realistically do, so even if Mace can even block Bane's lightning, we'd assume that Bane wouldn't be using it, so as to have the best chance in winning the matchup. In which case, Mace would still be completely unable to deal damage to the orbalisks.

which is on a tier below Palpatine's.

Unsupported assumption. Bane's shown refinement of the ability beyond any other (directing it across an entire plant, and creating miniature storms) and his force strength, stated to be far beyond the BoD, is insane, and above what can be deducted for Palpatine, ergo, Bane logically has the stronger force lightning.

What's going to happen when he shoots it at Mace? I'll let you reread the conclusion to RO2.

Don't be ridiculous. The force strong Worror was forced to sacrifice himself in order to release the entirety of his power to deflect Bane's lightning, and even then it's unlikely that Bane's use of force lightning, in that specific circumstance, was approaching his full level of power, given there was no necessity for it (the battle had been pretty much won, given the weak Johun Othone was the only one who remained, and he was missing as arm at the time, and was no threat) and the fact that he's been using the force in excess throughout the battle. You have no logical basis in claiming that Mace would be able to do the same.

Irrelevant misdirection. It's not an advantage that Mace would have over Bane.

So you say.

So I say? No, it's whatever anyone with a brain would say, given that Mace Windu's form is nowhere near as alien to Bane as Kas'im's was.

Gee now it's "could be"? Last post you were a lot more sure. Which is it n00b?

Quit making shit up. That was the first time I made a conclusion as to how Bane (Ro2 incarnation with orbalisk armour) would do against Kas'im when wielding his dual sabers (reason being it's irrelevant). There was no last post where I spoke about it for me to have been more sure about it. Though (and not that I have to support the stance), the fact that Bane himself has a unique style (with his orbalisks) would further support the idea that he could possibly defeat Kas'im in such a scenario.

You would be speaking the truth if anybody agreed with you,

Appeal to popular any kind of consensus, logical fallacy.

if you had any credibility on this forum, if you've ever won a debate, etc.

Ad Hominem in its truest sense. You're arguing against what is being said solely based on the person saying it.

But you fail at A, B, and C.

Sure thing.

No Noobaris. If there is no argument present (which in your case, there usually never is), it's called an insult. It becomes a fallacy when I attack you instead of your position. Since you don't have any kind of logical argument going on, it is called an insult. Go back to the drawing board.

No, do some research. It's a fallacy no matter the circumstance it's presented in. Not to mention that your assertion that no logical argument had been put forth is (to anyone with a brain) obvious bullshit.

Originally posted by Gideon
I don't see what the argument regarding the lightsaber duel is about; Kas'im had Darth Bane scrambling and on the defensive the second that he unleashed a variant of a form that Bane was unfamiliar with.

The Bane who had yet to gain the orbalisk armour, and receive ten years of force study and lightsaber training, not to mention it's irrelevant as it's an advantage that only Kas'im possesses, and something that doesn't detract from Bane's relative level of ability.

What would be relevant, however, is that the mentioned incarnation of Bane, on equal footing (which is the only way we can compare their relative ability) with Kas'im, was able to completely overwhelm the lightsaber God, indicating his overall ability was already far above the Twi'lek's. Factor in how much more impressive he gets by Ro2, and he's pretty much untouchable.

Mace Windu is the undisputed master of the most lethal and difficult form

Oh really? Funny how "the undisputed master" considered Depa's use of the form above his own. Funny indeed.

-- canonically -- his form and technique are better than Bane's own.

You need to stop throwing that word around when it's far from as cut and dry as you're trying to make it out to be.

With the orbalisks, Bane is virtually able to take a fully offensive stance in battle, can use his body to parry his opponent's strikes, and can integrate melee attacks with his form in a way that wouldn't be possible for anyone without such armour.

Not to mention, his form is stated to be completely unique to Bane, given the variance in his grip of the hilt and the angle of the blade.

The forms, alone, are at the very least comparable, in terms of their effectiveness, and Bane's speed and strength etc. can be argued to be far above his.

Especially once you factor in that Bane is a dark sider.

Which gives Mace a completely unknown advantage. We know that Vaapad has properties that work exclusively against darksiders, but we have no idea just how potent those properties truly are. As I earlier mentioned, they didn't make him a God in combat against an amnesiac Quinlan Vos, a barely trained and fatigued Asajj Ventress, or the relatively average Sora Bulq. They didn't change the fact that Mace Windu, by his own admission, wouldn't have been able to take Kar Vastor on his best day. Not to mention, as seen against Sidious, it takes time for Mace to fully get in tune with that aspect of the form - time that Bane could easily quickly overwhelm him given the offensive nature of his form.

I'm sorry, but there won't be any pwnage on Bane's behalf with a lightsaber, even if one includes orbalisks.

Because you say so? PoD Bane would logically be able to defeat the Jedi without applying too much effort, given the way he dominates against someone as impressive as Kas'im. The much stronger Ro2 Bane would logically decimate him.

Originally posted by OmegaSupreme
The Bane who had yet to gain the orbalisk armour, and receive ten years of force study and lightsaber training, not to mention it's irrelevant as it's an advantage that only Kas'im possesses, and something that doesn't detract from Bane's relative level of ability.

What would be relevant, however, is that the mentioned incarnation of Bane, on equal footing (which is the only way we can compare their relative ability) with Kas'im, was able to completely overwhelm the lightsaber God, indicating his overall ability was already far above the Twi'lek's. Factor in how much more impressive he gets by Ro2, and he's pretty much untouchable.

Oh really? Funny how "the undisputed master" considered Depa's use of the form above his own. Funny indeed.

With the orbalisks, Bane is virtually able to take a fully offensive stance in battle, can use his body to parry his opponent's strikes, and can integrate melee attacks with his form in a way that wouldn't be possible for anyone without such armour.

Not to mention, his form is stated to be completely unique to Bane, given the variance in his grip of the hilt and the angle of the blade.

The forms, alone, are at the very least comparable, in terms of their effectiveness, and Bane's speed and strength etc. can be argued to be far above his.

Which gives Mace a completely unknown advantage. We know that Vaapad has properties that work exclusively against darksiders, but we have no idea just how potent those properties truly are. As I earlier mentioned, they didn't make him a God in combat against an amnesiac Quinlan Vos, a barely trained and fatigued Asajj Ventress, or the relatively average Sora Bulq. They didn't change the fact that Mace Windu, by his own admission, wouldn't have been able to take Kar Vastor on his best day. Not to mention, as seen against Sidious, it takes time for Mace to fully get in tune with that aspect of the form - time that Bane could easily quickly overwhelm him given the offensive nature of his form.

Because you say so? PoD Bane would logically be able to defeat the Jedi without applying too much effort, given the way he dominates against someone as impressive as Kas'im. The much stronger Ro2 Bane would logically decimate him. [/B]

So logically Anakin would defeat Obiwan because he beat Dooku, the Spurs would be able to beat cleveland after beating Dallas, and I would be able to negotiate multimillion dollar deals in person just because I can do it on the internet. Sorry Noobaris, you don't know a thing about logic..

Goodbye Noobaris..

Finally, what took them so long this time?

Just wondering, since when did Darth Bane have a purple lightsaber?

Yea since when? Maybe its because of the jedi vs sith images and the orbalisk bane in NEGTC.

Well i doubt he actually uses a purple saber.

Hmmm. i just read the novels.

Originally he had a purple lightsaber as seen in a pic of him on Wiki. I think though that in POD he started with a red one, but then Qordis gave him a synthetic crystal of unspecified colour. He has a red one on the front of RO2 though...