Originally posted by Papa Smurph
And there's no way to know how much that object weighs.There are real life subs to somewhat put quantity in Namor's various subtossing feats.
According to this
http://stupidbeaver.com/biggest-submarine-typhoon-shark-akura/
the biggest sub ever made, which was in the 1980s, would have a surface weight of about 24000 tons and a submerged (ballast tanks full of water) weight of about 48000 tons. No way to know what sort of submarine Namor lifted though. Did he move it in the water or throw it through the air or carry it out of water?
Originally posted by Papa Smurph
That's why you go by a good healthy averageWhat the character can do
What the character shows you in a fight amongst other characters
How their roles in teams are
What other characters think when they see this character
What they are written like precluding the flashy feat and on a comic to comic basis
Etc.Given all that, how's Wonder Woman even 2x Namor?
I think people are more intimidated by Namor. WW gets a lot of the "Oh look a woman is threatening us" attitude even from normals. Obviously that doesn't last.
Then there's the inconsistency. For instance, in the Justice League, WW often seems to be there to come up with the wrong idea so Batman can come up with the right one. Same for Superman. In their own comics they are far more competent.
Plus my image of Namor goes back to when comics were more affordable and I could buy everything. Sure, in a fight, they'd probably be portrayed as fairly equal. They'd probably give her a slight strength edge and Namor would be surpised by it but it would be close.
Originally posted by SupremeMan
I think people are more intimidated by Namor. WW gets a lot of the "Oh look a woman is threatening us" attitude even from normals. Obviously that doesn't last.Then there's the inconsistency. For instance, in the Justice League, WW often seems to be there to come up with the wrong idea so Batman can come up with the right one. Same for Superman. In their own comics they are far more competent.
Plus my image of Namor goes back to when comics were more affordable and I could buy everything. Sure, in a fight, they'd probably be portrayed as fairly equal. They'd probably give her a slight strength edge and Namor would be surpised by it but it would be close.
Exactly, hence Namor giving her a good fight. Based on how I've come up and what I've read with my own two, and how I see writers write the two on a comic-to-comic basis, I don't really see how Wonder Woman is "5x" Namor or how she'll "dance around him."
I always look at how a fight would play out in a comic regardless of where I post, and I see this one as a stomp because Namor by himself would be a good match-up for Wonder Woman. Throw in Extremis Iron Man and how does Wonder Woman do anything but steal a win or two?
Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Exactly, hence Namor giving her a good fight. Based on how I've come up and what I've read with my own two, and how I see writers write the two on a comic-to-comic basis, I don't really see how Wonder Woman is "5x" Namor or how she'll "dance around him."I always look at how a fight would play out in a comic regardless of where I post, and I see this one as a stomp because Namor by himself would be a good match-up for Wonder Woman. Throw in Extremis Iron Man and how does Wonder Woman do anything but steal a win or two?
That's interesting because, when I was a kid, I might do something like picture a fight between, say, Superman and Hawkman, something that was a total mismatch and yet I'd picture a serious fight while, at the same time, in the back of my mind, I'd be laughing at how ridiculous this was because, given their relative strength, etc., Hawkman had no chance.
Long before I discovered vs. threads, I just instinctively was in the 'feats' camp in the sense that I would look at something like how fast the Flash was and then, when some non super speed villain tagged him in a fight, I'd be laughing about how ridiculous it was. Basically, "Oh they have to ignore this to make it be a fight at all. 'Realistically', this opponent woyuld have zero chance."
Originally posted by SupremeMan
That's interesting because, when I was a kid, I might do something like picture a fight between, say, Superman and Hawkman, something that was a total mismatch and yet I'd picture a serious fight while, at the same time, in the back of my mind, I'd be laughing at how ridiculous this was because, given their relative strength, etc., Hawkman had no chance.Long before I discovered vs. threads, I just instinctively was in the 'feats' camp in the sense that I would look at something like how fast the Flash was and then, when some non super speed villain tagged him in a fight, I'd be laughing about how ridiculous it was. Basically, "Oh they have to ignore this to make it be a fight at all. 'Realistically', this opponent woyuld have zero chance."
Feats are okay, but to me when they become your only argument and trump what we see characters do and how they are actually portrayed (like Wonder Woman being on the same plain as Orion based on her rep for "moral victories" and "hanging in there"😉 that's when it gets a little redic.
I also take character into question to answer this. Like Flash is fast, but it's still Wally West. Arrogant goofball. Maybe if he were a robot he'd be untouchable, but he's Wally West.
Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Feats are okay, but to me when they become your only argument and trump what we see characters do and how they are actually portrayed (like Wonder Woman being on the same plain as Orion based on her rep for "moral victories" and "hanging in there"😉 that's when it gets a little redic.I also take character into question to answer this. Like Flash is fast, but it's still Wally West. Arrogant goofball. Maybe if he were a robot he'd be untouchable, but he's Wally West.
In general, vs. threads allow for things a character consistently does, such as a character who consistently makes tactical mistakes. I was thinking more of Barry Allen running around the world in a second or taking the bullets out of people's guns so fast they didn't even see him but somehow someone like Captain Cold tags him in a fight. But I think speed is one of those things they always play loose with in a fight. Consistency in comics just is never going to stand up to serious logic. And if it did, it would be a borefest.
Originally posted by SupremeManWhen flash fought zoom at near lightspeed, Superman was a statue???? Is WW faster than superman??? http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8030/13qo5.jpg.... The END of the WW superman fighting at lightspeed CRAP.
Just reread a Wonder Woman comic, #194. It was just the next one to reread in order. WW protects a man by running around him, shielding him from energy from the Shattered God as he summons all of himself from all the reaches of the universe. So we have all this energy coming at the man at beyond lightspeed and she is circling him so fast she's blocking all of it. In one panel, we see thirteen images of her around him with her arms moving so fast she blocks everything. Yeah Namor and IM have done feats of speed and reflexes like that- not!
It's above light speed. 12 laps of the world in one second is close to light speed. Besides that Superman has got faster since then.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1247777/s1.jpg.html
This more recent seen shows Superman is able to react to the Flash's at superluminal speeds.
Originally posted by GalvaclawHe may react to it, but he cannot match that speed.
It's above light speed. 12 laps of the world in one second is close to light speed. Besides that Superman has got faster since then.http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/1247777/s1.jpg.html
This more recent seen shows Superman is able to react to the Flash's at superluminal speeds.
