Thanos w THOTU vs. The Endless

Originally posted by leonidas
absolutely.

but fun to discuss nonetheless. 🙂

I agree with this entirely 🙂

Originally posted by bobbi
[B]N.B. I kinda turned this into a philosophy discussion so read at your own discretion...

I'm not sure if you just aren't expressing yourself well enough but if marvel concepts are embodiments of concepts or represent them then they aren't them. You represent something else, therefore you aren't that something else. Not completely anyway.

The Abstract entites are the Concepts they personify,
that's why they embody them.

Anywho,
erase Eterntiy, you erase the concept of Time across creation.
erase Infinity, you erased the concept of Space across creation.
this is why when Beyonder erased the embodiment (hooded skeleton) od Death,
the Concept of Death became meaningless in creation.

So again,
Thanos/THOTI would be too much,
there are much weaker being than the Heart,
that can rearrange/erase/or even create from scratch - Concepts, All the Concepts.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The rest of this speech is eloquent but inconsequential.

The Abstract entites are the Concepts they personify,
that's why they embody them.

Anywho,
erase Eterntiy, you erase the concept of Time across creation.
erase Infinity, you erased the concept of Space across creation.
this is why when Beyonder erased the embodiment (hooded skeleton) od Death,
the Concept of Death became meaningless in creation.

So again,
Thanos/THOTI would be too much,
there are much weaker being than the Heart,
that can rearrange/erase/or even create from scratch - Concepts, All the Concepts.

Doesn't work that way in DC.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Doesn't work that way in DC.

In DC, Earth heroes fight abstracts and celestial beings often and usually win.
You would never see Spiderman landing a punch on the LT.

Originally posted by leonidas
thanos with the heart was NOT infallible
(he was unable to fix the problem WITHOUT resetting everything

That was the way the story was written.

If you can produce one scan that states,
Thanos' power was limited, and so he couldn't fix the flaw,
then that's something,
but how could there have been a story, if Thanos didn't have to erase everything,
I mean, that was the whole point of story.

Originally posted by leonidas
he was unaware of his own unconscious desires

Originally posted by leonidas
there are many other examples of his retaining his emotions)

Originally posted by leonidas
therefore he was NOT omnipotent.

Originally posted by leonidas
mm, you can scan blitz all you'd like.
regardless of what was SAID by characters, what was SHOWN contradicts it.

Originally posted by leonidas
thanos may have had infinite POWER
(though we'll forever disagree with what he DID with it
but he himself was not omnipotent.
the concepts we are discussing remained manifested within him.

Originally posted by leonidas
destiny, in this case, is manifest in the book which is written by the presence. that's above lt and everything save toaa -- which thanos was NOT.
he was a mortal using some of toaa's power. big difference.

.............................................................................................

Galan said it best:

Originally posted by Galan007

The way I see it ...

The "old man" was a comic character,

and as such [i]was God within the world of comics.

When Thanos usurped THOTI, he too became God withIN comics[/I].

So imo,

Thanos = "the little old man"..

👆 ... Who ever read the End: Marvel, cannot deny this.

But whoever disagrees ... as you wish. stoned

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Doesn't work that way in DC.

Also, when Mxy erased DC, (he left an absolute of Void)
do you believe there were still Concepts around?

Originally posted by Galan007

-LT-
"Can any of the Infinity Watch be trusted? This I do not know":

Is LT 'truly' omniscient? Well.... Apparently not.

If it takes one panel to make the LT less than Omniscient,
what would Ten scans depicting/stating that the LT is Omniscient do?

I mean,
that scan makes the LT less than Omniscient (concerning the Infinity Watch that is)

But then we have this scan (where the Writer describes the LT not only like)

"The Tribunal is serene in His Omnipotence"

"the Pulse of Creation reverberates through him, (LT) for he (LT) is its Heart,
ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,
a Destiny SPUN by HIS (LT) mighty Hand"

.......................................................................................

But the "Destiny" of the Beginning and the End of All things are in his control.

.......................................................................................

Btw.

The LT does not know the "destiny' of Warlock & the Watch ... published 1992.

The LT spins the "destiny" of all things Marvel in one hand... published 1997.

🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Based on that one moment, you believe we should null the LT's history?

If it takes one panel to make the LT less than Omniscient,
what would Ten scans depicting/stating that the LT is Omniscient do?

I mean,
that scan makes the LT less than Omniscient (concerning the Infinity Watch that is)

But then we have this scan (where the Writer describes the LT not only like)

"The Tribunal is serene in [B]His Omnipotence"

"the Pulse of Creation reverberates through him, (LT) for he (LT) is its Heart,
ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,
a Destiny SPUN by HIS (LT) mighty Hand"

.......................................................................................

But the "Destiny" of the Beginning and the End of All things are in his control.

.......................................................................................

Btw.

The LT does not know the "destiny' of Warlock & the Watch ... published 1992.

The LT spins the "destiny" of all things Marvel in one hand... published 1997.

🙂 [/B]

I'd like to know when it was that Thanos said even Marvels destiny on which LT spins does not know about his future, it was posted in this somewhere I think, that would be 2 against 1 that LT does not know of Thanos future, even in the End it would seem this would be true as LT couldn't stop Thanos.

Originally posted by kevdude
I'd like to know when it was that Thanos said even Marvels destiny on which LT spins does not know about his future, it was posted in this somewhere I think

So I really don't know how you made the connection.

Originally posted by kevdude
that would be 2 against 1 that LT does not know of Thanos future

Originally posted by kevdude
even in the End it would seem this would be true as LT couldn't stop Thanos.

So this makes the LT limited. dontgetit

Originally posted by leonidas
there are many other examples of his retaining his emotions)

Originally posted by Mr Master

Really? "many?" ... Name me 3.

Well I can find 3 right in this thread...

http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teb9.jpg

thats fury

http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=th10kz1.jpg

that's amazement. Although you might say he was gaining the knowledge of being everything since he was embracing and not embraced so you could say he wasn't completely "god" yet.

http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=43563012fv8.jpg

and now he's angered ("strangely" at that) and had rage that was "uncontrollable".

That was surprisingly easy...

Originally posted by bobbi
Well I can find 3 right in this thread...

http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teb9.jpg

thats fury

http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=th10kz1.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=43563012fv8.jpg

and now he's angered ("strangely" at that) and had rage that was "uncontrollable".

In any case, so the Presence,
who actually has a personified "Wrathful" aspect must be infallible too.

Please dogs.

Originally posted by bobbi
that's amazement. Although you might say he was gaining the knowledge of being everything since he was embracing and not embraced so you could say he wasn't completely "god" yet.

Originally posted by bobbi
That was surprisingly easy...

The only thing you asked was if he had emotions and u implied he didn't, challenging someone to post times he did. That's what I did and thats all i wanted to prove by posting those.

If you wanted to say having emotions has nothing to do with omnipotence than you should have said that instead of saying show me examples of when he had emotions.

If you read my first post that would explain my view on the whole "wrathful" aspects and all that. Although you could also say that since those personifications are pretty much separate entities the emotions aren't really part of god but part of the personification (hence personification. applying human attributes to something). Kinda like the Concepts and their personifications if you'd like to make that connection.

But again, not the point i was trying to make.

Oh and just so you know, I don't think having emotions necessarily makes you fallible.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Based on that one moment, you believe we should null the LT's history?

CD brought up that particular instance from Infinity Watch -- I merely remarked with that particular instance, LT wasn't 'truly' omniscient, because.... well..... he wasn't. srsly

This statement had no bearing on what I believe LT to be nowadays...

But what we can discern in the scan I posted from '92, and the scan you posted from '97... is LT must have received some sort of 'power/knowledge-boost' between those time periods. [as he clearly was not omniscient in my scan, but was apparently omniscient in your scan]. 🙂

"Right, the LT could not stop the "Almighty" .. "God" ... "He" the "Supreme Power"
the status/power/authority of Toaa/god withIN the Omniverse.

So this makes the LT limited."

Well..........yes. It does make him limited. And it pretty much shows that TOAA is the only true infinite power in marvel.

Originally posted by bobbi
The only thing you asked was if he had emotions and u implied he didn't, challenging someone to post times he did.
That's what I did and thats all i wanted to prove by posting those.

My bad.

Originally posted by bobbi
If you wanted to say having emotions has nothing to do with omnipotence
than you should have said that instead of saying show me examples of when he had emotions.

Originally posted by bobbi
If you read my first post that would explain my view on the whole "wrathful" aspects and all that.
Although you could also say that since those personifications are pretty much separate entities the emotions aren't really part of god
but part of the personification
(hence personification. applying human attributes to something).
Kinda like the Concepts and their personifications if you'd like to make that connection.

Btw. In Marvel, Toaa/god (Writers/Artists) are based on real human beings (full of emotions)

In fact, Toaa/god, are so human,
that they don't even know what's gonna happen next
until they conceive it and Draw it on Paper.

In other words,
the WriterS are responsible for
the development (what's conceived) which would be "destiny/fate" at work,
the ArtistS are responsible for
the creation of Reality on panel (what's drawn) which would be "perception" at work,
the Canvas (paper) ... is the Omniverse "realization" at work.

Originally posted by Galan007
Did you miss the reason why I posted that scan?

Originally posted by Galan007
CD brought up that particular instance from Infinity Watch -- I merely remarked with that particular instance, LT wasn't 'truly' omniscient, because.... well..... he wasn't.

This statement had no bearing on what I believe LT to be nowadays...

You asked and answered yourself,
"is the LT 'truly' omniscient? Well....Apparently not"

This is referring to the Present, with no indication otherwise.

I just wanted to clear that up, you know you're a true debater brother G,
so in order to prevent mis-leading info to spread,
you have to be clear and thorough, otherwise they'll mis-understand you.

You feel me?

Originally posted by Galan007
But what we can discern in the scan I posted from '92, and the scan you posted from '97... is LT must have received some sort of 'power/knowledge-boost' between those time periods. [as he clearly was not omniscient in my scan, but was apparently omniscient in your scan].

Because the LT has been depicted since 1967 as being omniscient:

"Question not my infinite Wisdom"

Wisdom: means to Know/Knowledge ....
an infinity of "wisdom" would mean to know everything.

....................................................................................................

"One who is the final arbiter of Fate"

Here the LT is presented as the authority of Destiny itself.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm not sure,
perhaps he only lacked absolute omniscience at the time,
when it concerned the Infinity Watch.

Because the LT has been depicted since 1967 as being omniscient:

"Question not my [B]infinite Wisdom"[/B]

Sure he may have known ALL else -- but due to that one panel, we know for sure he was not 'truly' omniscient at the time...

Fast-forward to nowadays,
in which LT is apparently 'truly' omniscient -- so it only stands to reason that his power, and/or knowledge, has certainly expanded in some way..

Unless you believe he would still have questions regarding the IW. lol

The only thing I can think of is at the time the statements were made about the LT being omniscient, there were no IG gems guardians, which meant he could see everything. But this is solely my opinion. I don't have anything to back it up.