Superman w/Surfer VS Gladiator w/Xavier

Originally posted by spetznaz
What you have here is a match between the Hulk (with a stipulation that he starts very angry, and that his anger continues to increase during the duration of the match), against the Juggernaut.

The 'Hulk' here is Superman ....and the increasing 'anger' is basically the solar juice emanating from Surfer. The longer the fight goes on, the more juiced he gets.

Juggernaut is Gladiator .....the psycho-effect from xavier basically means that Gladiator does not ebb ....he doesn't lose confidence and become a playtoy, and thus is similar to how the Juggernaut is. Protected by Cytorrak etc etc etc.

Thus, the question is (to put it another way) ....would a Hulk that is getting exponentially angry (and anger, just like how sunlight affects Superman, works in an exponential manner .....it is like decibels ....140 decibels is not double 70 decibels ...it is far higher) manage to defeat the Juggernaut.

As in:
a) Will Hulk's anger get to a point whereby (as it exponentially increases) he becomes more powerful physically than the level of protection that Cytorrak gives Juggernaut,

or

b) Will the Juggernaut be able to knock out the Hulk before he simply gets too strong to manage?

Those are the questions, and they are the same questions for Superman (with an ever increasing sun-dip) versus Gladiator (who is at maximum strength).

But note: In both the Hulk and Superman case, they are getting exponentially stronger by the second. Every second that passes you face someone who is measurably stronger than he was a second ago. Any injury you might have metted on them is gone (healing, anger and solar based), and disadvantage they may have been at is lesser, and any advantage you may have considered your own is getting eroded. And this is happening on an exponential basis.

Also note: Juggernaut and Gladiator are NOT getting stronger. What is happening is that they are NOT getting WEAKER. They are at maximum strength.

But even if one was to assume that Gladiator and Juggernaut are stronger than Superman and Hulk respectively, what should be realized is that both Kal and Banner are getting stronger at a very fast rate, and before long you end up in a pre-crisis/WWH situation whereby it starts to resemble more of a DragonBall Z cartoon on steroids rather than 'normal' comics (whatever normal is).

You basically move into a deux ex machina situation that is not abating, and suddenly the advantages that mgiht have been held by Juggernaut and Kallark start looking dim.

Unless they win immediately at the outset of the battle (basically the proverbial one-second knockout), what will happen is that with each passing second they face a more powerful, more durable, more refreshed foe who is basically been constantly boosted.

Good post. I still do not think that Gladiator would "knock" Superman out in a few blows which as above would mean Superman would get stronger and stronger. Unlike the Hulk - a cosmically charged Superman is going to get consistently stronger & more powerful - the Hulk relies on his emotions (rage, fear etc) which must fluctuate and therefore the rate at which he grows stronger would also vary.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Except he did do those things and on panel...seriously you keep saying nuh uh isnt changing that,multiple people who would know what supermans power level is including himself have said that he could split a planet in half,he has held a mini black hole in the jla series,he has pushed a world while under a red sun that was heavier than earth is.

Originally posted by spetznaz
What you have here is a match between the Hulk (with a stipulation that he starts very angry, and that his anger continues to increase during the duration of the match), against the Juggernaut.

The 'Hulk' here is Superman ....and the increasing 'anger' is basically the solar juice emanating from Surfer. The longer the fight goes on, the more juiced he gets.

Juggernaut is Gladiator .....the psycho-effect from xavier basically means that Gladiator does not ebb ....he doesn't lose confidence and become a playtoy, and thus is similar to how the Juggernaut is. Protected by Cytorrak etc etc etc.

Thus, the question is (to put it another way) ....would a Hulk that is getting exponentially angry (and anger, just like how sunlight affects Superman, works in an exponential manner .....it is like decibels ....140 decibels is not double 70 decibels ...it is far higher) manage to defeat the Juggernaut.

As in:
a) Will Hulk's anger get to a point whereby (as it exponentially increases) he becomes more powerful physically than the level of protection that Cytorrak gives Juggernaut,

or

b) Will the Juggernaut be able to knock out the Hulk before he simply gets too strong to manage?

Those are the questions, and they are the same questions for Superman (with an ever increasing sun-dip) versus Gladiator (who is at maximum strength).

But note: In both the Hulk and Superman case, they are getting exponentially stronger by the second. Every second that passes you face someone who is measurably stronger than he was a second ago. Any injury you might have metted on them is gone (healing, anger and solar based), and disadvantage they may have been at is lesser, and any advantage you may have considered your own is getting eroded. And this is happening on an exponential basis.

Also note: Juggernaut and Gladiator are NOT getting stronger. What is happening is that they are NOT getting WEAKER. They are at maximum strength.

But even if one was to assume that Gladiator and Juggernaut are stronger than Superman and Hulk respectively, what should be realized is that both Kal and Banner are getting stronger at a very fast rate, and before long you end up in a pre-crisis/WWH situation whereby it starts to resemble more of a DragonBall Z cartoon on steroids rather than 'normal' comics (whatever normal is).

You basically move into a deux ex machina situation that is not abating, and suddenly the advantages that mgiht have been held by Juggernaut and Kallark start looking dim.

Unless they win immediately at the outset of the battle (basically the proverbial one-second knockout), what will happen is that with each passing second they face a more powerful, more durable, more refreshed foe who is basically been constantly boosted.

James,

I am assuming that Xavier makes, and more importantly keeps, Gladiator FULLY confident. If that is the case, and ol' Kallark is basically on cloud nine better than a mystic on peyote, then basically being FULLY confident he is at the APEX of his power.

It is like if i have my car fully fueled ....it is full of gas. And let's say that i develop a device that somehow ensures that the gas tank is ALWAYS full .....that doesn't mean that my gas tank is getting fuller by the second, but rather that my gas tank never runs out.

That is Gladiator ....he is basically a high performance car (or let's use jet figher) that is basically going full blast, and will continue going full blast because the fuel is not getting depleted. He is a SR-71 Blackbird going at Mach 3+, and will constantly keep on going at that speed since his fuel is constant.

But what about Superman.

Superman is a rocket ship .....a rocket ship that every second gets the equivalent of a new ENGINE added. Thus, the rocket starts at Mach 2 at take off with one engine, but 5 minutes later it has 2 engines at it is going at mach 4. Five minutes later it has 3 engines at it is moving at mach 8 (again, the exponential factor, thus there is geometric progression happening). Another five minutes and it gets a fourth engine and it is moving at Mach 16 ........then another five minutes and a fifth engine falls into place, and suddenly you have something moving so fast that it is getting close to ridiculous.....

.....and another engine comes into place, and another, and another, and another, and another .....

.....that is the drift i am trying to make.

(By the way, try reading up on the ionic or ion drive that some scientists envision to be the way in which humans will explore galaxies beyond ours .....the ion drive starts very very slowly ....so slow that you cannot even see movement ....but it continues to accelerate .....and after a while it is moving so fast that cnventional rockets cannot compare).

That is why a Superman (being constantly charged), or a Hulk that is constantly getting angered, would end up in a state where he is at precrisis/WWH levels, and end up defeating a Kallark/Juggernaut.

To those in the know, call it the Alpha-Ziridium process.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
During inf crisis he flew over 2.3million lightyears in a very short time,and sun dip increase his abilities many times over very fast.

Good look on the info. thats fast.

Originally posted by spetznaz
James,

I am assuming that Xavier makes, and more importantly keeps, Gladiator FULLY confident. If that is the case, and ol' Kallark is basically on cloud nine better than a mystic on peyote, then basically being FULLY confident he is at the APEX of his power.

It is like if i have my car fully fueled ....it is full of gas. And let's say that i develop a device that somehow ensures that the gas tank is ALWAYS full .....that doesn't mean that my gas tank is getting fuller by the second, but rather that my gas tank never runs out.

That is Gladiator ....he is basically a high performance car (or let's use jet figher) that is basically going full blast, and will continue going full blast because the fuel is not getting depleted. He is a SR-71 Blackbird going at Mach 3+, and will constantly keep on going at that speed since his fuel is constant.

But what about Superman.

Superman is a rocket ship .....a rocket ship that every second gets the equivalent of a new ENGINE added. Thus, the rocket starts at Mach 2 at take off with one engine, but 5 minutes later it has 2 engines at it is going at mach 4. Five minutes later it has 3 engines at it is moving at mach 8 (again, the exponential factor, thus there is geometric progression happening). Another five minutes and it gets a fourth engine and it is moving at Mach 16 ........then another five minutes and a fifth engine falls into place, and suddenly you have something moving so fast that it is getting close to ridiculous.....

.....and another engine comes into place, and another, and another, and another, and another .....

.....that is the drift i am trying to make.

(By the way, try reading up on the ionic or ion drive that some scientists envision to be the way in which humans will explore galaxies beyond ours .....the ion drive starts very very slowly ....so slow that you cannot even see movement ....but it continues to accelerate .....and after a while it is moving so fast that cnventional rockets cannot compare).

That is why a Superman (being constantly charged), or a Hulk that is constantly getting angered, would end up in a state where he is at precrisis/WWH levels, and end up defeating a Kallark/Juggernaut.

To those in the know, call it the Alpha-Ziridium process.

Have we seen Gladiator's max?

Originally posted by llagrok
Have we seen Gladiator's max?

Superman wins

And 👆 spetznaz for most of his points.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
Not to my knowledge. We've seen him smacked down by foes like Tyrant, however.

I know, but that's not entirely relevant.

Unless people have actually read a comic where Gladiator's confidence has been at its peak, then I don't see how they can claim that he would beat or lose to Superman.

Originally posted by james2099
Almost true,But gladiators powers does not work that way.He starts off at near limitless strength.Now here is the catch...If he thinks he can do something or sets his mind to do something his strength and powers will increase to acomplish that task..As when vulcan asked him why he could not touch him and glads told him i BELIEVE myself untouchable..He is based off of will power, Thats why the uppermost limits to his strength is unknown...Thats how he destroyed that planet.. It was in his way and he thought it had to be moved .As with supes he will have to burn energy like with the engines being added, Its going to get to a point where some engines will burn out.He can take only so much energy until he has to back off or surfer could wind up killing him.

sounds like superman to me... oh wait "rip off"

I love Spetsnaz.

His Supes/Hulk Glads/Juggy analogy is exactly what I had in mind for this fight.

This thread was well thought out. Brought an omni-dimensional appeal that was more refreshing than the usual 'fisticuffs' approach to things.

Originally posted by james2099
Almost true,But gladiators powers does not work that way.He starts off at near limitless strength.Now here is the catch...If he thinks he can do something or sets his mind to do something his strength and powers will increase to acomplish that task..As when vulcan asked him why he could not touch him and glads told him i BELIEVE myself untouchable..He is based off of will power, Thats why the uppermost limits to his strength is unknown...Thats how he destroyed that planet.. It was in his way and he thought it had to be moved .As with supes he will have to burn energy like with the engines being added, Its going to get to a point where some engines will burn out.He can take only so much energy until he has to back off or surfer could wind up killing him.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Hes been able to asborn solar radiation for over 80k years....surfer isnt overloading him anytime soon,supeman is eventually knocking kallark the hell out.

Originally posted by james2099
well surfer cannot pump 80k years of radiation into him in 5 minutes......Kallark KOES him way before he even knows hes hit.....Or breaks his neck in nao-seconds because supes is not now nor will he ever be in kallarks fighting skill range....Just ask hyperion who is a better fighter than supes.

Here are my points:

Gladiator

Pros:

Hasn't show upper limits to his confidence

Was noted by Vulcan to be untouchable

100 FTL at good confidence

Starts out at full confidence

Snapped Hyperion's neck with good confidence

Planet cracking feat.

Cons:

There is a limit to how confident one can become.

Doesn't get stronger/gets stronger as fast as Superman

Feats aren't good as Superman

Supposedly starts out at his limit.

Must beat Superman quickly

Hasn't proven he can

Superman

Pros:

Will get stronger quickly through Solar energy

Feats beat Gladiator

Gladiator must beat him quickly

Is constantly getting powerful

Cons:

Potentially has an inferior start.

Potentially will get incapacitated quickly.

He cannot waver Gladiators confidence.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Hyperion is a joke compared to superman,kallark breaks supes neck right your on crack,supes is faster than kallark,physically equal or superior,and more durable and is getting a sun amping.

Originally posted by james2099
WOW, Faster,more durable and equal or superior to gladiator?Hyperions a joke to superman?I would ask you to prove what you say but as it has done before.......You and other supes fans cannot prove it with scans but you sure can talk a good game....But just for fun show me where supes destroyed a planet with his fists or took and contained an explosion that destroys many planets and come out UNHARMED...Then show me where supes pushed a planet without help..When you give up trying to find something that has never happened on panel do me one last favor..... Show me a scan saying supes is moving anywhere near 100 times light speed.....If you bring up a point you must prove what you say..... GOOD LUCK TRYING TO FIND YOUR PROOF...P.S...YOU WONT. 😉

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Flew 2.3million lightyears in under a day(more like an hour likely),stands in black holes with no ill effects(more than a couple planets),supes doesnt go around destroying planets but he does push planets under red suns that are heavier than earth,he gets hit with 50x supernovas without problems,any more fail you wanna add to this thread?,try reading some superman comics.