Kil'Jaeden prepares a game of chess

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
So? He uses his mind to solve the many puzzles in dungeons and when he fights huge monsters. He is smarter than you give him credit for. Also, Link is not the only one he deveives and manipulates.

And Kil'Jaeden is smarter than you all give him credit for.. he basically fortold the future without the ability to see into the future.. trough his entire life, his mind has failed him TWICE.. One time, was when he thought that the powers of Sargeras would make him do good deeds, and the second time when he didnt predict the breakout of Lich King..

He pretended to be another person character, spoke a few dialogues and it had a ripple effect large enough to destroy an entire planet.. he had multiple races kneel to him by single words.. Those that did not fall for his tongue, knelt to his powers of deceptions and illusions.. He is the man that has won WARS without barely lifting a finger..

If given the chance, this guy would basically be able to talk The World War and World War Two into peace, lifting not even a finger..
(Well, his look alone would have people stop fighting, but lets pretend he takes human form)

In order to outsmart Kil'Jaeden, I think you'll have to be a mindreader..

Ore just as skillful a planner capable of seeing just as far ahead as he self does, Sargares would be a good match, but since Warcraft characters is excluded...

Warcraft characters are excluded? Well, I still think Kil'Jaeden match and even exceed Sargeras.. Sargeras is cunning, but Kil'Jaeden is intellectual..

Sargares is very intellectual too, he planned his own defeat at the hands of Aegwynn, only to be capable of later on using her son as a Tool to transport the Orcs to Azeroth, I think he has shown great Intelligence as well, and when Sargares wasn't corrupted he was Aman'Thul's advisor.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Sargares is very intellectual too, he planned his own defeat at the hands of Aegwynn, only to be capable of later on using her son as a Tool to transport the Orcs to Azeroth, I think he has shown great Intelligence as well, and when Sargares wasn't corrupted he was Aman'Thul's advisor.

Planning your defeat isn't hard 😛

And yes Sargeras is very very cunning and clever. But Kil'jaeden appears more so IMO

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Planning your defeat isn't hard 😛

And yes Sargeras is very very cunning and clever. But Kil'jaeden appears more so IMO

Well it is, if you are planning on making you own death trigger events many years into the future 😛

More intelligent perhaps, more cunning imo no.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
And Kil'Jaeden is smarter than you all give him credit for.. he basically fortold the future without the ability to see into the future.. trough his entire life, his mind has failed him TWICE.. One time, was when he thought that the powers of Sargeras would make him do good deeds, and the second time when he didnt predict the breakout of Lich King..

He pretended to be another person character, spoke a few dialogues and it had a ripple effect large enough to destroy an entire planet.. he had multiple races kneel to him by single words.. Those that did not fall for his tongue, knelt to his powers of deceptions and illusions.. He is the man that has won WARS without barely lifting a finger..

If given the chance, this guy would basically be able to talk The World War and World War Two into peace, lifting not even a finger..
(Well, his look alone would have people stop fighting, but lets pretend he takes human form)

In order to outsmart Kil'Jaeden, I think you'll have to be a mindreader..

......Speaking and making ripples that can destroy a planet=intelligence...how?

Multiple races kneeling to him with single words? I have to ask...do you mean this literally or figureatively? Cause that sounds like mind control...

Deceptions? Is he gonna lie his way to victory in chess? Illusions? I am pretty sure those aren't allowed...

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And the times his cunning failed him cost him DEARLY.

......Speaking and making ripples that can destroy a planet=intelligence...how?

Multiple races kneeling to him with single words? I have to ask...do you mean this literally or figureatively? Cause that sounds like mind control...

Deceptions? Is he gonna lie his way to victory in chess? Illusions? I am pretty sure those aren't allowed...

- His fail never costed him anything. His first fail made him happy and the second fail is a misstake he would easily correct.

- He tricked an entire race to war against a race that they had no hostility with, destroying his sworn enemies and the planet that they resided on.

- I meant it litteraly, and Kil'Jaeden hasnt shown any sign of mindcontrol. His life is based on manipulation and decieve.

- Deception and illusions probably arent, but Kil'Jaeden isnt who he is because of the powers he has.. he is who he is because of his mind.. his powers only help him reach his goals

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
- His fail never costed him anything. His first fail made him happy and the second fail is a misstake he would easily correct.

- He tricked an entire race to war against a race that they had no hostility with, destroying his sworn enemies and the planet that they resided on.

- I meant it litteraly, and Kil'Jaeden hasnt shown any sign of mindcontrol. His life is based on manipulation and decieve.

- Deception and illusions probably arent, but Kil'Jaeden isnt who he is because of the powers he has.. he is who he is because of his mind.. his powers only help him reach his goals

people normally bow before Kil'Jaeden for two reasons.

1. He tricks them

2. He uses his magical power to force them into submersion and when you have seen the average Dreadlords stats in MoM then the feat grows.

Originally posted by Utrigita
people normally bow before Kil'Jaeden for two reasons.

1. He tricks them

2. He uses his magical power to force them into submersion and when you have seen the average Dreadlords stats in MoM then the feat grows.

While in fact, people should bow to him because of..

1. His power

meh, i dont know about the "easily correcting" the lich king part, the lich king is imo a very powerful force now, especially if the RPG game is anything to go by, hes listed at equel rating as Archi, who is only 2 below killy, so if he managed it, it would be difficult if not the end of him in the end

Originally posted by Burning thought
meh, i dont know about the "easily correcting" the lich king part, the lich king is imo a very powerful force now, especially if the RPG game is anything to go by, hes listed at equel rating as Archi, who is only 2 below killy, so if he managed it, it would be difficult if not the end of him in the end

We'll have to wait and see..

🙁 i h8 waiting

So do I.. I want to see the powers of Lich King so badly..

And worst part of it all will be that the Lich King is the final WotLK encounter! Meaning that even when the expansion is being released, there will probably be MONTHS until someone actually gets him down..

Originally posted by Burning thought
meh, i dont know about the "easily correcting" the lich king part, the lich king is imo a very powerful force now, especially if the RPG game is anything to go by, hes listed at equel rating as Archi, who is only 2 below killy, so if he managed it, it would be difficult if not the end of him in the end

If I remember correctly then Archimonde has a CR at 50 Kil'Jaeden at 59 and Lichking at 50.

Now I don't like using this because Malorne with a CR at 69 was defeated by Archimonde.

Now going by Abilities for Lichking. str 32, dex 28, Con ---, int 30, Wis 32, Cha 27.
Archimondes turn.
str 41, dex 18, con 31, int 28, wis 28, cha 37.

Overall

I May have looked the wrong place and put in some wrong stats for Archimonde the are pretty closely tied together ...

then when we take the Spell abilities. as a 20th level sorcerer Lich King as a 20 level Wizard, Now If I have understood the RPG correct (which I actually doubt) then it is better to be a sorcerer then being a Wizard.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
- His fail never costed him anything. His first fail made him happy and the second fail is a misstake he would easily correct.

- He tricked an entire race to war against a race that they had no hostility with, destroying his sworn enemies and the planet that they resided on.

- I meant it litteraly, and Kil'Jaeden hasnt shown any sign of mindcontrol. His life is based on manipulation and decieve.

- Deception and illusions probably arent, but Kil'Jaeden isnt who he is because of the powers he has.. he is who he is because of his mind.. his powers only help him reach his goals

2. Oh okay. Impressive no doubt, but Ganon tricked an entire kingdom into a false sense of security, pretended to ally with the king, and killed him when he got the chance, all while manipulating Link to open the Door of Time, where the Triforce resided.

3. So he, with a single word, can make races kneel to him? How is that NOT mind control?

4. Well, actually, he's where he is because of the big man Sargeras, but to each his own.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Really? He now has an adversary whose power may very well rival his own, he sure as hell didn't plan the revival of the Lich King.

2. Oh okay. Impressive no doubt, but Ganon tricked an entire kingdom into a false sense of security, pretended to ally with the king, and killed him when he got the chance, all while manipulating Link to open the Door of Time, where the Triforce resided.

3. So he, with a single word, can make races kneel to him? How is that NOT mind control?

4. Well, actually, he's where he is because of the big man Sargeras, but to each his own.

1. Who? Lich King? vin
2. An entire kingdom is impressive, but are they equals to the Dreadlords at mind?
3. Who said anything about 'a single word'?
4. He is who he wasnt because of Sargeras, but he is who he is because of his mind.. Archimonde was blessed with the same quantity of power as Kil'jaeden and look how much they differ..

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
1. Who? Lich King? vin
2. An entire kingdom is impressive, but are they equals to the Dreadlords at mind?
3. Who said anything about 'a single word'?
4. He is who he wasnt because of Sargeras, but he is who he is because of his mind.. Archimonde was blessed with the same quantity of power as Kil'jaeden and look how much they differ..

Just to further a little on what you are saying in point 3.

A single word from Kil'Jaeden might be enough to trigger a Paramount spell, a effect of that paramount effect could be ripping a planet to pieces, now If I saw a being utilizing that kind of spell with a Word I would get on my knees in a hurry.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
1. Who? Lich King? vin
2. An entire kingdom is impressive, but are they equals to the Dreadlords at mind?
3. Who said anything about 'a single word'?
4. He is who he wasnt because of Sargeras, but he is who he is because of his mind.. Archimonde was blessed with the same quantity of power as Kil'jaeden and look how much they differ..

2. How the hell should I know? And he has done things like that many times, like when he fooled Zant into accepting him as a god to use Zant as a connection to the physical plane.

3. You said multiple races kneeling to him by single words. And if what Ultrigos says has any merit, then that sounds more like fear.

4. ...Yeah, but the bulk of his power is from Sargeras.

you realize cortana is a completely analytical being and she can see every move and every option. she wins instantly, seeing as she can see every statistical option