Fuzzy Hawkeye & Newjak Present: The Magical Mystery Tourney

Originally posted by Newjak
You would have still gotten 2 points and Akuki would have received one for being handicapped.

But you didn't have a partner and neither did Akuki therefore there was no handicap for you to be entitled to get 3 points. That is the point of the three point rule is that you won overcoming the odds of a 2 vs 1 match. Now I can see you arguing about keeping your points, which it looks like will happen as no one has spoken against it, but there is no wiggle room for argument on this, you were not against the odds, you were not at a disadvantage compared to your opponent.

You get 2 points.

The extra point is there to convenience those who have to deal with fielding any of 18 characters on their own and manage it.

The fact that I was still inconvenienced and yet recieved the same amount of points that I would have had I not been so, is ridiculous.

Winning with a partner = 2 points.
Winning by yourself = 2 points?

Whether my opponents showed up or not should have no bearing on my points. End of discussion.

By this logic, if you follow it through, winning in a team of 2 vs. a team of one should only equate to 1 point because you were even less inconvenienced.

There is no clause "unless your opponent also is disadvantaged".

It isn't intended to be compared to your opponent's disadvantages, but to how much extra you have to put in in order to manage, much less win.

Which is also why Akuki should be getting 1 point for all of this.

I really don't like the rule changing this late in the game, though 1 point is fairly trivial. Nontheless, I'm debating simply because I can and I think that the right course of action is obvious.

Hmm...

Are the standings from all of the matches, as well as who participated in said matches, kept anywhere in this thread? I'm going to try and straighten this out and get the new matches posted by 9p (PST).

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
It's not about whether I was at a disadvantage compared to my opponent, but that I was at a disadvantage with the amount of work/debating/ingenuity I was able to contribute compared to what I should have been giving.

The extra point is there to convenience those who have to deal with fielding any of 18 characters on their own and manage it.

The fact that I was still inconvenienced and yet recieved the same amount of points that I would have had I not been so, is ridiculous.

Winning with a partner = 2 points.
Winning by yourself = 2 points?

Whether my opponents showed up or not should have no bearing on my points. End of discussion.

By this logic, if you follow it through, winning in a team of 2 vs. a team of one should only equate to 1 point because you were even less inconvenienced.

There is no clause "unless your opponent also is disadvantaged".

It isn't intended to be compared to your opponent's disadvantages, but to how much extra you have to put in in order to manage, much less win.

Which is also why Akuki should be getting 1 point for all of this.

I really don't like the rule changing this late in the game, though 1 point is fairly trivial. Nontheless, I'm debating simply because I can and I think that the right course of action is obvious.

And it isn't a rule as the rule had never been defined for this particular situation. In that a 1 vs 1 match is still the same as a 2 v 2 match in the odds you have to face. For instance in the rules on first page you are only allowed to field three people if your teammate didn't show. That puts you have severely bad odds. That wasn't here therefore I'm not gonna award you extra points for a match in which you and your opponent had the same odds of winning.

I'm just not doing it.

Originally posted by Newjak
So if none of your opponents showed up and your teammate didn't show up I should still give you 3 points for the match?

I know the work that I devoted and the fact that DL not showing up to the match was a hindrance.

Your system, according to Red, is devised to motivate people to show up to their matches, but here we have proof that that had absolutely no bearing on them showing up. Nothing changed. Thanks.

Originally posted by Newjak
And it isn't a rule as the rule had never been defined for this particular situation. In that a 1 vs 1 match is still the same as a 2 v 2 match in the odds you have to face. For instance in the rules on first page you are only allowed to field three people if your teammate didn't show. That puts you have severely bad odds. That wasn't here therefore I'm not gonna award you extra points for a match in which you and your opponent had the same odds of winning.

I'm just not doing it.

And, as I've explained, the rule isn't to compensate for odds so much as it is for work. I have to deal with two teams, one of which I'm unfamiliar with, where as before I only needed to worry about my own.

Ugh. Whatever, do what you like. Change the rules mid tourney... just ends up smearing the image of the tourney a little bit more. 😬

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Don't aim loaded questions at me because the system you and Red came up with is faulty.

I know the work that I devoted and the fact that DL not showing up to the match was a hindrance.

Your system, according to Red, is devised to motivate people to show up to their matches, but here we have proof that that had absolutely no bearing on them showing up. Nothing changed. Thanks.

It is a rule... it covers this situation... but now you're trying to change it.

And, as I've explained, the rule isn't to compensate for odds so much as it is for work. I have to deal with two teams, one of which I'm unfamiliar with, where as before I only needed to worry about my own.

Ugh. Whatever, do what you like. Change the rules mid tourney... just ends up smearing the image of the tourney a little bit more. 😬

And on another note I think you are just flat out wrong. The rule was never meant to be about work and the extra time you had to put in. It was the idea behind being put up against the odds. Therefore since the odds were against you, you could still get 1 point and if you overcame the odds then you would be awarded with 3.

Originally posted by Newjak
I think you maybe overreacting on this just a bit Smurph. I know everyone tries to edge out as much an advantage as they can, but to make a claim that a ruling like this on a grey area will smear this tournament is going to far.

And on another note I think you are just flat out wrong. The rule was never meant to be about work and the extra time you had to put in. It was the idea behind being put up against the odds. Therefore since the odds were against you, you could still get 1 point and if you overcame the odds then you would be awarded with 3.

And it certainly wouldn't create a smear on its own, but with everything I've had to work out with you so far, it builds.

No. The point system was created to ensure that people show up- Red told me himself. The extra point for winning on your own was to compensate those who had to hold up the whole team on their own... it was a countermeasure to creating a semi-team tourney to avoid or manage the damage from dropouts. As I recall, Red didn't want a team tourney to avoid what Trick pulled affecting his teammate as well. But he still wanted a team tourney... so a point system was devised to fit this format. If someone was about to forfeit a match knowing their partner was gone and they'd have to do all the work themselves, they could still enter knowing they had to get at least 1 point, and get a possible bigger winout of 3 points than they would have had before.

Compensation.

Here is the upcoming tournament schedule:

Week of 5/26-6/1
Gundam/Leo Vs. BW/Charlotte
Smurph/PR Vs. Bran/Akuki

Week of 6/2-6/8
BW/Leo Vs. Charlotte/Gundam
PR/Akuki Vs. Smurph/Bran

Week of 6/9-6/15
Charlotte/Leo Vs. BW & Gundam
Smurph/Akuki Vs. PR/Bran

Battlefields and Prep time allowances shall be posted shortly.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Overreacting? I'm calm. Again, it's not about the advantage so much as the fact that the idea that my being disadvantaged is earning me no more points than if DL had shown up, seems ridiculous and worth debating.

And it certainly wouldn't create a smear on its own, but with everything I've had to work out with you so far, it builds.

No. The point system was created to ensure that people show up- Red told me himself. The extra point for winning on your own was to compensate those who had to hold up the whole team on their own... it was a countermeasure to creating a semi-team tourney to avoid or manage the damage from dropouts. As I recall, Red didn't want a team tourney to avoid what Trick pulled affecting his teammate as well. But he still wanted a team tourney... so a point system was devised to fit this format. If someone was about to forfeit a match knowing their partner was gone and they'd have to do all the work themselves, they could still enter knowing they had to get at least 1 point, and get a possible bigger winout of 3 points than they would have had before.

Compensation.

Haven't I changed that ruling because you guys wanted it.

It's not like I'm not accommodating to this.

And I talked to Red before as well and he told me that it was strictly so people wouldn't get boned if people did drop out, and miss matches. THe 3 point thing was simply there for someone who beat the odds and overcame going against a 3 vs 6 fielded members disadvantage.

The problem with you getting 3 points you didn't have a 3 vs 6 match you had a 3 vs 3 which was fair.

Where are the results from all of the matches kept?

Ok then the battle locations will be the same for both Pools.

Location: The prison. This is an old super powered containment area. On a planet like Earth but completely barren of life and covered completely with sand.

The prison is roughly the size and shape of the Empire State Building but under ground. The prison has long since been abandoned. All the power is off save one spot in the very bottom reserved the most powerful people.

This is the only active power nullfier unit still left operational and is still going. Any person within the unit, which is 15 yards by 15 Yards and 20 yards high, will automatically lose their powers becoming a human stat wise. This is even if they possess an alien style body.

Prep Time: I'm trying something a little different for this round. The prep time will be thirty relative minutes. That means no matter how fast you can move or think you will still only have thirty minutes to work with. Thus Snailman and the human light speeder would still have the same exact amount of prep time to work in and still have the oppurtunity to get the same amount done.

Originally posted by Newjak
What the fact that I wanted to reset the scores to 0.

Haven't I changed that ruling because you guys wanted it.

It's not like I'm not accommodating to this.

Needless to say, if the rules are going to be altered mid tourney, nothing I can do about it. I'll win as is anyways.

BTW... thanks for setting stuff in motion, Delph and Newjak.

On a side note, Akuki/Smurph, BW/Leo and Charlotte/Leo matches have already taken place. PR/Bran also would have taken place, had it been posted.

srug

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
I realize that, and thanks for accommodating, but pages of this do reflect poorly.

Needless to say, if the rules are going to be altered mid tourney, nothing I can do about it. I'll win as is anyways.

BTW... thanks for setting stuff in motion, Delph and Newjak.

On a side note, Akuki/Smurph, BW/Leo and Charlotte/Leo matches have already taken place. PR/Bran also would have taken place, had it been posted.

srug

Well, you can switch it to look like this:

Smurph
Leo
Paul
Gundam

Blair
Charlotte
Bran
Akuki

The only repeat there is that BW/Charlotte have battled, but that's pretty much unavoidable.

Paul and Bran are also interchangable.

Putting Leo and myself in the same pool, however, doesn't bode well for the others as we already have 4 points each.

srug

Originally posted by Newjak
Prep Time: I'm trying something a little different for this round. The prep time will be thirty relative minutes. That means no matter how fast you can move or think you will still only have thirty minutes to work with. Thus Snailman and the human light speeder would still have the same exact amount of prep time to work in and still have the oppurtunity to get the same amount done.

that's . . . cheap. and really punishes only one person in this event. 😐

frankly, anyone could have taken a speed guy (and everyone had the LENGTHY opportunity to ban savitar) and arranged a similar set up for themselves in prep. this is like being punished for having a good idea. 😬

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Well, you can switch it to look like this:

Smurph
Leo
Paul
Gundam

Blair
Charlotte
Bran
Akuki

The only repeat there is that BW/Charlotte have battled, but that's pretty much unavoidable.

Paul and Bran are also interchangable.

Putting Leo and myself in the same pool, however, doesn't bode well for the others as we already have 4 points each.

srug

that's ONE reason it doesn't bode well to put us in the same pool. 😉

Originally posted by leonidas
that's . . . cheap. and really punishes only one person in this event. 😐

frankly, anyone could have taken a speed guy (and everyone had the LENGTHY opportunity to ban savitar) and arranged a similar set up for themselves in prep. this is like being punished for having a good idea. 😬

I jsut thought it'd be kind cool to do and see how it works out enacting a true time limit one that could not be gotten around.

That and I want to see what some of you guys can come up with when crunched for time. 😛

Also don't worry Leo it isn't going to be an every round thing.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not trying to punish anyone man.

I jsut thought it'd be kind cool to do and see how it works out enacting a true time limit one that could not be gotten around.

That and I want to see what some of you guys can come up with when crunched for time. 😛

Also don't worry Leo it isn't going to be an every round thing.

yeah yeah, i get it. still . . . my prep for the assumed 2v1 match i was gonna have with bw and cdb was friggin GLORIOUS! disgust

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah yeah, i get it. still . . . my prep for the assumed 2v1 match i was gonna have with bw and cdb was friggin GLORIOUS! disgust

I'll tell Gundam not to post 😛

Originally posted by Newjak
You can still have the 2 vs 1 if you want.

I'll tell Gundam not to post 😛

deal. but only if i get my usual-style prep time . . . 😖hifty:

Originally posted by leonidas
deal. but only if i get my usual-style prep time . . . 😖hifty:

By the way guys I would like everyone to try and get me their Opening Posts by Saturday I would like to try and get the Matches up on Sunday.