Thanos HotU vs. PR Beyonder

Originally posted by Galan007

Thanos destroyed/recreated more than Beyonder.

Beyonder created a Multiverse Quintillions of times larger,
and Millions of times more powerful,
than the Infinite Prime Multiverse.

The Prime Multiverse,
is the only Reality of significance when it comes to Cosmic power in Marvel.

So a gazillion more Multiverses are really irrelevant,
since that's just space-time lacking any Cosmic power.

"The Multiverse ...
a collection of Alternate Dimensions with a similar nature and Universal hierarchy.
Earth 616 and alternates seen in the MU
(which include being like the Watcher, Eternity etc) are withIN the SAME Multiverse.

Realms LACKING this hierarchy of Power are OUTSIDE of the Multiverse" 😬

Originally posted by Galan007

Thanos actually beat the hierarchy -- he didn't just 'scare' them.

On top of that,
Beyonder defeated Molecule Man,
who was himself was more powerful than the enitre hierarchy (LT included) combined.

Originally posted by Galan007

Again,
Thanos has the better feats -- Beyonder has the better statements.

Beyonder has the beeter feats, no question.

Originally posted by Galan007

Feats hold up far more than statements.

Originally posted by Galan007

Different parts of that are debatable --
but that's not an argument I'm about to get in.

Molecule Man was more powerful than the LT, and everyone knows this, including yourself.

You've claimed several times that Thanos wins here based on his win over LT,
and acknowledging that Beyonder defeated MM who was beyond/above LT,
puts a damper on the reasoning behind your choice.

Don't force it good friend.

Originally posted by Galan007

Nah.

Beyonder's creation was quintillions of times greater than one infinite Multiverse,
as Mr M puts it...

And again,
that one infinite Multiverse was not only ALL of Marvel,
(excluding the Beyond Realm) at the time,
but it was and STILL is,
the only relevant Multiverse in Marvel concerning Cosmic power.

Originally posted by Galan007

If Thanos wiped out all of Marvel,
he wiped out an infinite amount of infinite Multiverses.

Infinite > quintillions.

Thanos didn't absorb all of Marvel,
Thanos absorbed all of Space-Time:

Thanos did not absorb the Dimensions of the Cosmic AnchorS,
or Death's Dimension either.

(can't say what else he left over out there, it might've been just them)

Still, it immediately confirms it was NOT ALL of Marvel.

Second:

On top of that,
those Multiverses are meaningless concerning Cosmic hierarchal power.

Even Genis/Entropy (Genis mostly)
can erase all of Space-Time in Marvel if it doesn't fight back.

As we can see, erasing Space-Time that doesn't fight back,
is quite a different story to erasing a Sentient/Conscious Multiverse.

ALL of those MultiverseS OUTSIDE the Prime Multiverse are exactly that,
unconscious Multiversal scales of Space-Time.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Terrifying the hierarchy (LT included) that they couldn't even act is more impressive.

Not really.

Originally posted by Mr Master
On top of that, Beyonder defeated Molecule Man,
who was himself was more powerful than the enitre hierarchy (LT included) combined.

Yeah, but THOTI didn't have any trouble at crushing them. PR Beyonder gave some of his power in the cup, so it took some of his power, a lot of his power level. So how can he be infinite, if it took so much power from him.

I don't see anything taking power from THOTI, to decrease it. If he would give some power to the cup or anywhere, to empower something from his own power, he would still be the same infinitely powerful as before, something PR Beyonder wasn't anymore.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Not really.

Yeah, but THOTI didn't have any trouble at crushing them. PR Beyonder gave some of his power in the cup, so it took some of his power, a lot of his power level. So how can he be infinite, if it took so much power from him.

I don't see anything taking power from THOTI, to decrease it. If he would give some power to the cup or anywhere, to empower something from his own power, he would still be the same infinitely powerful as before, something PR Beyonder wasn't anymore.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Not really.

The LT was afraid of the Beyonder, Desperate in FACT:

....................................................................

When Uatu gathered the Cosmic Hierarchy (the LT included)

the In-Betweener says about Mephisto,

"Surely this is his day of last resorts ... he is desperate ... AS ARE WE"

I believe "WE" included the LT ✅ (who is there)

................................................................................................

After Beyonder erased Death from the Multiverse,
the Hierarchy (including the LT) accepts their fate,

then the MM shows up and they all step aside: (as if salvation arrived)

LOL!
................................................................................................

Even more EMBARRASSING,

the Living Tribunal and the hierarchy literally,
were quaking in their pants at the thought of what Beyonder would do,
if Eternity failed,
when Eternity actually mustered some courage to attempt an attack:

"The Mighty of the MULTIVERSE (the LT included) TREMBLE"

................................................................................................

LOL! can anyone imagine the power it must've taken to make the Living Tribunal,

TREMBLE! ... LOL.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Yeah, but THOTI didn't have any trouble at crushing them.

Originally posted by Xplosive

PR Beyonder gave some of his power in the cup,
so it took some of his power, a lot of his power level.
So how can he be infinite, if it took so much power from him.

Stated across many different isssues ... here are 4 occasions from 4 different titles:

Have you ever read Secret Wars?

If not, I'm not going to indulge you in circles friend.

Originally posted by Xplosive

I don't see anything taking power from THOTI, to decrease it.
If he would give some power to the cup or anywhere,
to empower something from his own power,
he would still be the same infinitely powerful as before,
something PR Beyonder wasn't anymore.

Show us where it's stated that Beyonder wasn't infinite anymore.

Or are you just making that up?

Also, Mr infinitely powerful Thanos could NOT fix the flaw,
without re-creating everything.

So the door of pis swings both ways.

....................................................................

Beyonder defeated the Molecule Man,
who was MORE powerful than the Living Tribunal:

....................................................................

"And Now that He is and knows he is Mightier than all other beings of the Multiverse"

Hey isn't that the LT there? hm

....................................................................

....................................................................

Uatu begs the Molecule Man, (on his knees)

"Stop the Beyonder before he undoes all that is ... I beg of you,

Without your aid, I fear for all existence"

Since the LT and the hierarchy were too afraid to do anything.

....................................................................

whistling

Originally posted by Galan007
Thanos destroyed/recreated more than Beyonder.

that implies you believe thanos wiped out the omniverse (an opinion i still completely disagree with 🙂 ) however, even if you accept it as true, imo beyonder could have performed a similar feat were cosmology the same in the 80s. it's like trying to compare the 60s packers teams to modern day teams. so much has changed that a direct comparison is essentially impossible. in this case i think we can look at intentions and it seems beyonder was intended by the big wigs at marvel to truly be their supreme character. no interpretations of the beyonders actions are required, very unlike thanos's actions. 🙂

but, to each his own. 😉

Originally posted by leonidas

that implies you believe thanos wiped out the omniverse (an opinion i still completely disagree with 🙂 ) however, even if you accept it as true, imo beyonder could have performed a similar feat were cosmology the same in the 80s. it's like trying to compare the 60s packers teams to modern day teams. so much has changed that a direct comparison is essentially impossible. in this case i think we can look at intentions and it seems beyonder was intended by the big wigs at marvel to truly be their supreme character. no interpretations of the beyonders actions are required, very unlike thanos's actions. 🙂

but, to each his own. 😉

We should play the lottery.

Cause you agreed with me yesterday,
and now I'm agreeing with you.

😂

Btw. Thanos did in fact erase all of Time/Space,
but he left out Dimensions OUTSIDE of Time/Space.

But like I explained up top which was ignored by others:

..............................................................................

Beyonder created a Multiverse Quintillions of times larger,
and Millions of times more powerful,
than the Infinite Prime Multiverse.

The Prime Multiverse,
is the only Reality of significance when it comes to Cosmic power in Marvel.

So a gazillion more Multiverses are really irrelevant,
since that's just space-time lacking any Cosmic power.

"The Multiverse ...
a collection of Alternate Dimensions with a similar nature and Universal hierarchy.
Earth 616 and alternates seen in the MU
(which include being like the Watcher, Eternity etc) are withIN the SAME Multiverse.

Realms LACKING this hierarchy of Power are OUTSIDE of the Multiverse"

✅

Originally posted by leonidas
that implies you believe thanos wiped out the omniverse (an opinion i still completely disagree with 🙂 ) however, even if you accept it as true, imo beyonder could have performed a similar feat were cosmology the same in the 80s. it's like trying to compare the 60s packers teams to modern day teams. so much has changed that a direct comparison is essentially impossible. in this case i think we can look at intentions and it seems beyonder was intended by the big wigs at marvel to truly be their supreme character. no interpretations of the beyonders actions are required, very unlike thanos's actions. 🙂

but, to each his own. 😉

I'm looking at what they both did on panel -- and imo, Thanos seems to be more impressive based on that.

Not a biased opinion whatsoever, [as I cannot stand either one of them]. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
👆 From an unbiased persepective, this makes perfect sense.

We should play the lottery.

Cause you agreed with me yesterday,
and now I'm agreeing with you.

😂

Btw. Thanos did in fact erase all of Time/Space,
but he left out Dimensions OUTSIDE of Time/Space.

But like I explained up top which was ignored by others:

😂

things they are a-changin'! 😱

Originally posted by Galan007
My opinion lies not in what Beyonder 'was intended to be', or in 'statements' regarding his character...

I'm looking at what they both did on panel -- and Thanos seems to be more impressive based on that.

Not a biased opinion whatsoever, [as I cannot stand either one of them]. 🙂

i'm not claiming you are showning bias at all -- i'm just saying that given the way things are set up, it's hard for b's feats to compare is all. because of that, i think it is relevent in this particular case, where direct feat comparison is unfair, to consider extraneous information. i'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, i'm just explaining my own rationale and why imo feats aren't necessarily a fair way to go when comparing these characters. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007

My opinion lies not in what Beyonder 'was intended to be',
or in 'statements' regarding his character...

The statements made by the Writer and Editor in-chief of Marvel at the time,
only cements Beyonder as the ultimate Supreme being.

And I still call this a stalemate ... but ...

... We can debate their feats if you wish. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm looking at what they both did on panel --
and Thanos seems to be more impressive based on that.

So what did Thanos do, that was more impressive?

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not claiming you are showning bias at all -- i'm just saying that given the way things are set up, it's hard for b's feats to compare is all. because of that, i think it is relevent in this particular case, where direct feat comparison is unfair, to consider extraneous information. i'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, i'm just explaining my own rationale and why imo feats aren't necessarily a fair way to go when comparing these characters. 🙂

But imo,
if statements regarding a character start getting used, in place of 'solid proof' -- It will more than likely lead to someone saying, "Well Beyonder beats Thanos, cuz Shooter said he was teh Supreme!" dur

😛

But again,
Just MO.

Originally posted by leonidas

i'm not claiming you are showning bias at all -- i'm just saying that given the way things are set up, it's hard for b's feats to compare is all. because of that, i think it is relevent in this particular case, where direct feat comparison is unfair, to consider extraneous information. i'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, i'm just explaining my own rationale and why imo feats aren't necessarily a fair way to go when comparing these characters.

Beyonder's feats still trump anything Thanos did. 🙂

They're just being ignored, to give Thanos the win.

If I may give a Comment in this discussion...

Is it possible that the limit thing is meant as Beyonder limiting himself by giving himself a mortal form and mortal "needs", because Obviously when MM managed to channel the Beyonders Energy back into his own Dimension it was all of his Energy.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Is it possible that the limit thing
is meant as Beyonder limiting himself by giving himself a mortal form and mortal "needs"

No:

Originally posted by Mr Master

He literally limited his power,
in order to fit in with these Parameciums,
swimming in this drop of water known as the infinite Multiverse. 🙂

Btw. Ut. You shouldn't skip posts,
because this leads to circles,
and repetitive posting of scans that already answered you questions.

Originally posted by Utrigita

because Obviously when MM managed to channel the Beyonders Energy
back into his own Dimension it was all of his Energy.

Btw. It was later revealed that Beyonder allowed that,
(faking his own death)
to finally leave the Multiverse for good.

That's how he chose to depart.

Originally posted by Galan007

But imo,
if statements regarding a character start getting used, in place of 'solid proof' -- It will more than likely lead to someone saying, "Well Beyonder beats Thanos, cuz Shooter said he was teh Supreme!" dur

Originally posted by Mr Master

The statements made by the Writer and Editor in-chief of Marvel at the time,
only cements Beyonder as the ultimate Supreme being.

And I still call this a stalemate ... but ...

... We can debate their feats if you wish. 🙂

So what did Thanos do, that was more impressive?

Mr Master was the interview in marvel age annual 1?

Originally posted by Mr Master
No:

He literally limited his power,
in order to fit in with these Parameciums,
swimming in this drop of water known as the infinite Multiverse. 🙂

Btw. Ut. You shouldn't skip posts,
because this leads to circles,
and repetitive posting of scans that already answered you questions.

That was like at the very end, last Two pages of the series.

Btw. It was later revealed that Beyonder allowed that,
(faking his own death)
to finally leave the Multiverse for good.

That's how he chose to depart.

Sorry just wasn't ready to go over 6 pages what I think is long complicated post to look for one question.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your logic makes sense, but,

Beyonder's feats still trump anything Thanos did. 🙂

They're just being ignored, to give Thanos the win.

i agree 100% with this. don't forget, i'm of the opinion thanos did NOT absorb the 'omniverse'. so imo b's feats FAR exceed anything thanos ever did with the hoti. 🙂

i was looking at it from the pov of someone who DID think thanos absorbed the omniverse. even from that perspective, i can still understand why you'd think beyonder would win. 😉

and galan -- i understand the reluctance to stray from on-panel. but just as we need to use logic at times to decide what is or isn't pis on-panel, we can also use logic at times to decide when on-panel feats are or are not enough.

s'all's i'm sayin. 🙂