Last time, I swear...maybe

Originally posted by roughrider
Your last statement is very important, because it reflects the 'ownership' issues many fans seem to have with the saga; I've been hearing it since the Special Editions came out in 1997. Fans who think Lucas doesn't have the 'right' to make changes or additions to his films -

Ah but see there you are making an assumption about why I want him to leave the movies alone. I feel this way about a whole bunch of movies that are remade. Prime example the upcoming True Grit. There is no reason that movie needs to be re-made it was excellent when it came out and it still is. However the powers that be in Hollywood feel the need to re-do. And THAT mentality is precisely what I have an issue with. So you see its not me ragging on Lucas or feeling a sense of ownership. I just dont see the need to continually monkey around with films that are so great in their first telling.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The progression of technology to make the films, makes it seem that the empire was more advanced in the past then in the future. There is never any attempt to explain this.

Don't ask. It'll only prompt Mr. Lucas to make up some cockamamy story of reverse engineering and his childhood and telling everyone around him how smart he is and generally assy to mouth babble. Queeq is right. The prequels are poorly written. These films are little more than a showcase for what Lucas can do with his effects stdios -little more than a 6 hour commercial for ILM.

People use the "Hey Lucas can do what he wants! They're his films!" bullshit to justify their own love for these films when faced by people who dislike them. So, it's pretty much just as lame as spending ten years bitching about the prequels. For me, the prequels simply don't exist. It took me ten years to drill them out of my head, but these days I have a hard time remembering some character's names.

So, Queeq is right about the story, simply not about them being worth the time or effort.

Phantom Menace? Was alright, podrace and duel make it really good.

Attack of the Clones? The love scenes = lame. Nice battle at the end and the Yoda and Dookue duel make it sooo good that I can forget that only two plot points were introduced in the 2 or so hours of it.

Revenge of the Sith? Darth Vader without the suit AND with the suit. General Grievous( 🙂 ). Dooku. Palps and his manipulating. His duel with Yoda, showing how badass Yoda can be. I love ROTS. Just sayin'.

When I look at the PT this way...I love the PT. So, this is the way I look at it.

What movie doesn't have flaws? Focusing on the flaws of something just makes you not like it, no matter what it is. Focus on the flaws of the OT and I assure you that you won't like it anymore, either.

EDIT: I do agree, however, that they totally could have been better.

Sure every movie has flaws... but good films outshine their flaws by a lot of good stuff. I don't think the PT as a whole does. And it's not just sentiment, there's a lot of stuff that absolutely makes no sense in these movies.

Take AOTC for instance... I have said this several times before, but it's a valid point I think.

When AOTC came out I liked it a lot better than TPM which I thought was wooden, slow and had an awkward angle (taxation of trade routes... WTF???). It had good bits but it simply lacked content. AOTC however was interesting: a detective story (although OB1 is not much of a detective), the introduction of a sinister Syfo Dyas as the mysterious Jedi that ordered the CLone Army whcih in turn would lead to the infamous Clone Wars (finally!!), the appearenace of Count Dooku. and the love story that would lead to Anakin's fall... It sounds interesting...

However... all the leads in AOTC lead nowwhere when ROTS came out: the whole business with Jango, the bounty hunters, the 'detective story', Syfo Dyas.... it all vanished... Jango was mere exposition of Boba (boring and completely obsolete), Syfo Dyas disappeared from the face of the earth and Dooku was killed off right away... it made AOTC, though it looks lovely, completely nonsensical: it tells us nothing we need to understand the Clone Wars or Luke's story or whatever... That makes it eye candy.

Who cares HOW the cloe army came about... it's not crucial to understand the Skywalker story and actually... we still don't know how it came about since Syfo Dyas was no longer an issue...

The only crucial element, the one we really need to understand and feel along with the rest of the saga, in AOTC the Love Story of Anakin and Padme... and that, AGAIN: the only relevant plot point from AOTC, was so badly done, it's totally incredible and lends no backing to OB1's remark in ROTJ about the 'good man that was once your father'. When was that??? When he was ten??? OMG....

That makes AOTC mere eye candy. It even makes TPM better even though it still is quite wooden and boring...

Leaves us with ROTS: many good things, pacing, humor, plot turns... all pretty good.... up to THE moment the prequels were all about: Anakin's fall.... Rushed, incredible, messy build up and a pretty lame OB1/Padme/Anakin scene on Mustafar...

These are arguments that IMHO transcend liking it or not... These failures make the difference between the classic that the OT was, with strking moments like the 'I am your father' scene... and the okay-prequels of the Star Wars saga... It misses out on the crucial moments.

Originally posted by queeq

These are arguments that IMHO transcend liking it or not... These failures make the difference between the classic that the OT was, with strking moments like the 'I am your father' scene... and the okay-prequels of the Star Wars saga... It misses out on the crucial moments.

QFT

Thanks, babe...

Originally posted by queeq
lends no backing to [any of] OB1's remark[s] in [The Original Trilogy]

This is what I got from the PT. It didn't have anything to do with the originals. There were some familiar names, but none of the character depth or emotion. Rather than writting a story that connected the new movies to the old ones, he just peppered in a few familiar names and characters like Jabba the Hutt, the Droids, Chewbacca, etc to serve as a link to the past. These movies were purposely written to justify more action figures, video games and money. In the process of turning out these poorly-written and lazy scripts, we have an entire generation who has come to age watching these movies and thinking the originals are cheezy. This is why Lucas won't stop screwing with the originals; he keeps placing new technology and new story angles in front of new generations of kids so he can keep them spending their parent's money on it. But, Mr. Lucas seems to find the originals just as cheezy as the kids he thinks he has to change them for to keep them cracking wallets. He is smart in understanding that most kids these days are visual, rather than intellectual. The hardcore fans who feel the most burned by the modern SW efforts are those who appreciate the story and the mythology found in the originals. I'll simply never understand why he couldn't have gotten both trilogies to flow with one another while also marketing to the visual appeal of todays kids.

Well, the answer to that is prolly that he was never happy with what he could achieve with the OT. Now he can so he made the PT. If he'd had that technology at the time, the OT would be like that as well. So YAAAAYYYY for limitations...

Originally posted by queeq
Well, the answer to that is prolly that he was never happy with what he could achieve with the OT. Now he can so he made the PT. If he'd had that technology at the time, the OT would be like that as well. So YAAAAYYYY for limitations...

But why change certain elements of the OT for no good reason, like Greedo shooting first? Why barely skirt the edge of the original story in the PT, like Yoda being Ben's master? Anakin a good man? Ben getting knowledge from Qui-Gon about appearing after death and Anakin being able to do so after knowing him for a matter of days? I agree, limitations benefitted certain things, but being without limits for the PT doesn't excuse the writting or intentional ignoring of what had already been established in the OT. If he wasn't happy with the OT, then he kept pumping them out for money. I don't fault him for that, simply that this motivation is a far cry from the notion that he ever had a 3, 6 or 9 part epic in mind decades ago.

I have no answers to your questions... I do share your frustrations however...