Originally posted by Da Pittman
I understand this, but when has the base level really meant anything in any Hulk fight? My point is that it is still the same Hulk that has unlimited strength so referring to Hulk as WWH or Classic really doesn’t make a difference unless it is going to be in the very first seconds of the fight before he can get mad.
it's like two cross-country runners having exactly the same personality and strategy and the same general stats but one being given a mile's head start. no matter how well the other one runs, so will he, but he will retain that 1 mile advantage.
Originally posted by janus77If WWH got madder faster which in turn gave him greater strength at a much improved rate I can see that as being a power boost but I haven’t seen anything from WWH that said that he got madder faster only that he just started off mad. If this is so then I can see this as being an “incarnation” but by your example it is still the same Hulk just that his anger is greater. Before he was shot off into space he was just the normal Hulk, only after the series of events did he become the WWH. Did something change to his biology that I’m not aware of?
true but, different base-levels do matter when in direct comparison.
say if Prof. Hulk fought WWH. both would get stronger as they got 'madder'/stressed/frustrated/frightened but one would get stronger at a far faster rate, the exponentially rising strength working from a higher base level.it's like two cross-country runners having exactly the same personality and strategy and the same general stats but one being given a mile's head start. no matter how well the other one runs, so will he, but he will retain that 1 mile advantage.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
If WWH got madder faster which in turn gave him greater strength at a much improved rate I can see that as being a power boost but I haven’t seen anything from WWH that said that he got madder faster only that he just started off mad. If this is so then I can see this as being an “incarnation” but by your example it is still the same Hulk just that his anger is greater. Before he was shot off into space he was just the normal Hulk, only after the series of events did he become the WWH. Did something change to his biology that I’m not aware of?
as I said, it's like twin cross-country runners, in competition, only with one given a mile advantage. doesn't matter that they are essentially the same mentally and physically, it's the advantage that decides who is going to win.
in direct comparison, other Hulks just won't be able to get stronger than WWH, if both are amping, although neither will ever reach a limit (infinite potential).
Originally posted by janus77I know what you are saying and I understand all of it, my issue is that people keep referring to WWH as an “incarnation” or a different Hulk in regards to his power level. While I can see difference in fighting ability and mentality in the other versions which would give a great advantage in the fight but their strength levels are the same. To me there is no difference between saying WWH and a pissed off Classic Hulk in regards to power level. People normally don’t bring up these differences when talking about Hulk fights, just that WWH is the strongest “incarnation” of him. Plus I don’t see this as being a base level, was he this strong before he was shot into space? His base level was lower because he wasn’t ticked off so he was just the “regular” Hulk before he became WWH.
no, I'm not saying he gets madder faster, just that even if he gets stronger at the same rate as previous versions, he still holds the advantage (in direct comparison) because of his greater base-level.as I said, it's like twin cross-country runners, in competition, only with one given a mile advantage. doesn't matter that they are essentially the same mentally and physically, it's the advantage that decides who is going to win.
in direct comparison, other Hulks just won't be able to get stronger than WWH, if both are amping, although neither will ever reach a limit (infinite potential).
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I know what you are saying and I understand all of it, my issue is that people keep referring to WWH as an “incarnation” or a different Hulk in regards to his power level. While I can see difference in fighting ability and mentality in the other versions which would give a great advantage in the fight but their strength levels are the same. To me there is no difference between saying WWH and a pissed off Classic Hulk in regards to power level. People normally don’t bring up these differences when talking about Hulk fights, just that WWH is the strongest “incarnation” of him. Plus I don’t see this as being a base level, was he this strong before he was shot into space? His base level was lower because he wasn’t ticked off so he was just the “regular” Hulk before he became WWH.
I think we're in agreement on the idea that nothing WWH did is theoretically/plausibly outside of the scope of a regular Savage Hulk, just that the narrative chose to highlight the pronounced difference in base-levels and in the speed with which WWH reached that godly level of strength and endurance, as compared to what we've seen from Savage Hulk. Thus making him the "strongest hulk ever"... because all the other Hulks would have struggled more to achieve the same effect.
we're not talking about the sum total of their powers, for that never changes, just the relative effective outputs and how easily they are realised.
another way of looking at it would be to compare say the infinity of Hulk's power to that of a being like Galactus. both have 'infinite' power, but does Hulk compare? of course not, for at every stage of Hulk's 'infinite' power, Galactus' dwarfs it.
like two infinite series of numbers, just Galactus' series is made up of a ^10000000 of Hulk's numbers (and no negative numbers nor the number 1, series starts from 2 😛).
Maybe we have a different opinion of base level. I don’t see WWH as being a base level because he was already in an agitated state from the events that happened before. During the war you could say that that was his base level for the war but it didn’t stay after the fight was over and his anger subsided and returned to his normal state before the war.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
Maybe we have a different opinion of base level. I don’t see WWH as being a base level because he was already in an agitated state from the events that happened before. During the war you could say that that was his base level for the war but it didn’t stay after the fight was over and his anger subsided and returned to his normal state before the war.
If ur talking about the war on sakaar I think he became "world war hulk" after sakaar was nearly destroyed by the ship and he held the panet together. At that point his anger i believe was actually greater than it was throughout the sakaar war. I also think that this could be taken as his base level of strength as world war hulk because it was this detruction of sakaar that fueled all of his activities on earth. Just my opininon
Originally posted by Da Pittman
That is what I just said, for the duration of the War he was mad but after it was over he calmed down and reverted back to normal. For me a base level of a character is at a rested state so WWH is not a base level for the character.
So base level to you is Banner?
Right...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
That is what I just said, for the duration of the War he was mad but after it was over he calmed down and reverted back to normal. For me a base level of a character is at a rested state so WWH is not a base level for the character.
Savage has a higher base-level than Fixit, Grey has a lower one than Professor ... WWH is just yet another point on the mental-map of Hulk-Banner... a point where the Banner aspect was more or less in-tune with the Hulk aspect, and he freely swapped out personae with no drop in power or anger.
in fact, this had been coming all throughout the 300s, for instance when Banner KO'd abomination (that's right, Banner), with a sort of general meeting of the 'minds' inside of Hulk/Banner.
so now, with the increased incentive, Hulk/Banner just opened up the tap on that infinite energy a little more, and the result is that his base level is well beyond anything any prior Hulk had. though, as said earlier, the potential for them all remains the same.
Originally posted by MindsetIn the strictest of terms yes, but I don’t think anyone would consider Banner to be the “Hulk”. After he first transforms then that would be his base level, when I say a rested state I don’t mean complete calm and falling asleep but with no added stimulant. Even with Banner there is a point of anger that will trigger the change which remains constant but if the stimulant is great enough that triggered the change such as Betty getting killed before his eyes then when he transform he would be at a higher level when he becomes the Hulk. So by the very nature of the character the base level would flux but the level that WWH was at was far beyond any base level of any version of the Hulk.
So base level to you is Banner?Right...
Originally posted by janus77While I see you point I don’t see it as a base level per say but more of an upgrade or power boost. To me is like Iron-Man having his Hulk Buster armor, he is the same person with the same abilities but upgraded to a more powerful version of himself. To me it is like saying that Havok is sun dipped, he is the same as he has always been but needed and outside force to stimulate him to the uber levels, such as Hulk need the death of his world and mate to stimulate and make him angry enough to reach his level for the war.
effectively there are different base-levels to different incarnations of Hulk, even though they are ultimately the one being.Savage has a higher base-level than Fixit, Grey has a lower one than Professor ... WWH is just yet another point on the mental-map of Hulk-Banner... a point where the Banner aspect was more or less in-tune with the Hulk aspect, and he freely swapped out personae with no drop in power or anger.
in fact, this had been coming all throughout the 300s, for instance when Banner KO'd abomination (that's right, Banner), with a sort of general meeting of the 'minds' inside of Hulk/Banner.
so now, with the increased incentive, Hulk/Banner just opened up the tap on that infinite energy a little more, and the result is that his base level is well beyond anything any prior Hulk had. though, as said earlier, the potential for them all remains the same.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
In the strictest of terms yes, but I don’t think anyone would consider Banner to be the “Hulk”. After he first transforms then that would be his base level, when I say a rested state I don’t mean complete calm and falling asleep but with no added stimulant. Even with Banner there is a point of anger that will trigger the change which remains constant but if the stimulant is great enough that triggered the change such as Betty getting killed before his eyes then when he transform he would be at a higher level when he becomes the Hulk. So by the very nature of the character the base level would flux but the level that WWH was at was far beyond any base level of any version of the Hulk. While I see you point I don’t see it as a base level per say but more of an upgrade or power boost. To me is like Iron-Man having his Hulk Buster armor, he is the same person with the same abilities but upgraded to a more powerful version of himself. To me it is like saying that Havok is sun dipped, he is the same as he has always been but needed and outside force to stimulate him to the uber levels, such as Hulk need the death of his world and mate to stimulate and make him angry enough to reach his level for the war.
Originally posted by janus77I didn’t say that it went away for him, for this version of the Hulk what you describe would be an “upgrade” then previous version because the ability to tap into each other effectively increases the rate and level at how strong he gets. While the other version may have been able to do this on a lesser level doesn’t mean that it is not an improvement. This level is not the normal level for him in this current version, in effect it is like he is charging up for the battle to come such as Havok being dipped in a star. This was always there but needed something to “amp” him up and in this case it is anger and the “tapping” into thing that you described.
umm yes and no... the 'yes' being that he needed to be sufficiently provoked in order to let it happen. the no being that it is neither an upgrade nor something that goes away/is removed once the initial cause is dispensed with (ie once the Illuminati were dealt with), it just remains with him... because he allows himself to be that strong. it was just an accommodation, an understanding, between his Banner and Hulk aspects. and as such, it could hold indefinitely or it could break or worse (the World Breaker).