Then we have evidences of wolverine taking worses damage and not being putt down.
Oh and then we have even evidences of logan been shot in the nuts and it not putting him down.
oh and as for punisher being able to replicate 5 trained shooters, blasting wolverine with machine guns for an untold amount of time, it not gunna happen.
First Logan let them shoot him.
second He stood there did not even attempt to dodge or move.
3rd. Punisher not going to have theses factors going for him, becuases Logan will be fighting back.
so that a rather irelevent example.
Originally posted by Etrigan
1. Could Logan dodge 5 concentrated machine-gun fire bursts anyway?
Originally posted by Etrigan
2. Same applies.
Originally posted by Etrigan
3. Punisher will have these factors going for him because he will have an hour of preparation before Logan starst fighting, let alone fighting back.\
How does an hour a prep time give him the factor’s of Logan not wishing to hurt him, not attempting to move or dodge but simply allowing him self to be hit.
An hour of prep time does not affect what Wolverine does decision-wise in any way at all. But it gives Punisher an hours' time to set up weaponry and planning before Wolverine starts fighting. And Punisher can set off such traps or weapons and spring plans before Wolverine can start fighting. Remember Wolverine has no prep.
And as for those scans, I think Punisher is probably a better shot than any of those men, as well as the fact that he will have tactics set up due to his prep and so will have a better idea than they did of where he is going to shoot, what he is going to aim for, and how he will lure Logan or weaken him.
Originally posted by Etrigan
An hour of prep time does not affect what Wolverine does decision-wise in any way at all. But it gives Punisher an hours' time to set up weaponry and planning before Wolverine starts fighting. And Punisher can set off such traps or weapons and spring plans before Wolverine can start fighting. Remember Wolverine has no prep.
wrong. Prep allows one to set plans up and gather weapons. It does not allow them the time to set up traps, nor enter the location of the fight prior to the match start.
Not to mention given all Logan training and senses traps would not be all that effective.
Originally posted by Etrigan
And as for those scans, I think Punisher is probably a better shot than any of those men, as well as the fact that he will have tactics set up due to his prep and so will have a better idea than they did of where he is going to shoot, what he is going to aim for, and how he will lure Logan or weaken him.
How does were he going to shot going to help him? lure him to what? He not going to have the ability to set traps, also what do you take wolverine for? He has far greater training in military tactics and experiences with them then even Frank.
Originally posted by Battlehammer wrong. Prep allows one to set plans up and gather weapons. It does not allow them the time to set up traps, nor enter the location of the fight prior to the match start.Not to mention given all Logan training and senses traps would not be all that effective.
Okay, I stand corrected on the prep thing. But the fact that Punisher has prep and Wolverine has not just means that Wolverine will simply not know what is coming. The senses would help, on that I agree with you. But they are not good enough to help him completely evade anything that Punisher has in store. This takes place in a warehouse; I would imagine this is a warehouse that is crowded with objects and obstacles. Punisher has black ops training that I would imagine just about rivals the training that Wolverine has. If Frank is prepared for Wolverine and Wolverine is not prepared for Frank, then I think that boosts the fact that Punisher has training way over Logan's. It would only take one well-placed explosive, sonic attack, or whatever to weaken Logan enough for Punisher to finish him off (KO, kill, what counts?) either with his remaining arsenal of weapons or with another similar attack.
Originally posted by BattlehammerHe is better, but he can not produces that amount of pure firer that 9 individuals can. Logan can dodge 9 people, ones not going to be no matter how skilled, that great of a threat.How does were he going to shot going to help him? lure him to what? He not going to have the ability to set traps, also what do you take wolverine for? He has far greater training in military tactics and experiences with them then even Frank. [/B]
Similar explanation goes for this; I think the fact Punisher has prep gives him a great advantage. What training does he have in comparison with Frank? Punisher's prep makes his training in both stealth, evasion, defense and offense count a whole lot more than Logan's.
Winter Soldier assaulted Wolverine with prep and help from a sniper. Even after getting the drop on Logan and handcuffing him, Wolverine beat a prepped Winter Soldier with his arms literally tied behind his back.
Sabretooth ambushed Wolverine at the weapon X facility after Logan had been put through the wringer by Lady Deathstrike and Omega Red. Wolverine didn't even have a healing factor at this point and even in his beaten stated and with Sabretooth's traps laid out Wolverine stalemated him.
Deadpool, recently prepped to beat Wolverine with multiple weapons and set ups, equiptment that wouldn't even be close to available to Punisher. Even with multiple set ups, tricks, weapons, AND his HF he only was able to stalemate Logan.
Fury met out to fight Logan with prepped equiptment enough to supposedly give Hulk a run for his money, Wolverine beat him up.
Zaran drugged Wolverine and then set out to ambush him on an island while drugged, Wolverine almost killed him.
All of these people had prep (some more than Frank would be able to aquire and set up in an hour) and are as threatening if not moreso than Punisher himself.
But Wolverine keeps coming out on top or at the very least even money.
As for doding gunfire from multiple attackers... Yeah, he can if he tries.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9949/bullets8ou1.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7831/groupbulletdodgeab7.jpg
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4418/groupbulletdodge2sj2.jpg
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3725/speedbarvw6.jpg
Finally for people saying that Wolverine being shot through the eye is okay on KMC for having happened in New X-men, Wolverine put his middle claw through Sabretooth's brain at a time that Sabretooth had an adamantium skull.. Should I then conclude that Wolverine can cut through adamantium with ease because a writer made a mistake?
Originally posted by Etrigan
Punisher has black ops training that I would imagine just about rivals the training that Wolverine has.
❌
Wolverine's been everything that Franks been since before Frank was born and THEN SOME, Wolverine's been a government operative for multitudes of orginizations that "don't exist", the weapon x training he had alone would dwarf Punishers. On top of that he's got training from multiple superhero teams and ninja.
Yeah, I suppose that's fair. Wasn't really thinking there, you got me on that one, jinzin.
But I still maintain that Frank's prep is going to give him the edge here. In an hour he can kit up with as much as he can in his general arsenal, which is a lot, more than enough for him to be able to shoot the hell out of Logan before Logan can get to him. Wolverine isn't very likely to use stealth to come at Frank; Punisher could slow him down with no trouble and then use that for the time required to beat Wolverine. Also, the scans of his bullet dodges are in open spaces; a street, a forest, open environments. This is a cluttered warehouse. There may be space in a warehouse, yeah, but I'm betting it would be a safer option for Logan to take cover than to dodge, in which case Punisher could just put explosives to use either to drive him out of cover or to beat him while he's in there.
Can I ask when the Deadpool prep attack on Wolverine happened? The stalemate, that is.
Originally posted by Etrigan
Okay, I stand corrected on the prep thing. But the fact that Punisher has prep and Wolverine has not just means that Wolverine will simply not know what is coming. .
.
Originally posted by Etrigan
This takes place in a warehouse; I would imagine this is a warehouse that is crowded with objects and obstacles. Punisher has black ops training that I would imagine just about rivals the training that Wolverine has. If Frank is prepared for Wolverine and Wolverine is not prepared for Frank, then I think that boosts the fact that Punisher has training way over Logan's. It would only take one well-placed explosive, sonic attack, or whatever to weaken Logan enough for Punisher to finish him off (KO, kill, what counts?) either with his remaining arsenal of weapons or with another similar attack.Similar explanation goes for this; I think the fact Punisher has prep gives him a great advantage. What training does he have in comparison with Frank? Punisher's prep makes his training in both stealth, evasion, defense and offense count a whole lot more than Logan's.
HAHAHAHAHA did you just say that Punisher has “training way over Logan’s”? Just stop you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about.
Punisher is a trained marine, special opts, Navy Seals. That’s quite impressive.
. Wolverine has been in the Canadian as well as the American army, he been trained in both American as well as Canadian special opts, he a train paratrooper, he train as CIS agent, he been a trained spy by the best (Black Widow adoptive Father who was thought of as the greatest Russian spy and spy in general), also trained by Weapon X and it shadow organizations train by and for Team X, train shield agent, train in French military, trained X-Men, Alpha Flight and Avengers. That’s not even all the organizations military and non military that he has been trained for.
Logan has vastly more training, vastly more experiences and your comments have been utterly ridiculous by the lack of knowledge you have displayed on wolverine.
Did you just say punisher stealth is better then wolverine? Are you kidding me? Logan has far greater stealth. He has snuck into the avengers tower, the Baxter building, shield bases ect. He snuck up on DD, feral and other individuals with superhuman senses. The guy has literallty vanished in front of night crawler, generation x and a number of other individuals and meta humans.
Did you just try and say punisher training and prep will make punisher evasion better then Wolverine who can has vastly more training, experiences, superhuman physical abilities such as reflexes and who has been stated to see bullets in slow motion.
You need to either stop responding or read up one wolverine or start re reading what you are posting to make sure you do not allow such utter ignorance’s be posted on your be haft.
I've just admitted that I wasn't thinking when I said that, jinzin already proved me wrong on that one.
I do not think that Punisher's stealth is at a higher level than Wolverine's, but I think that his prep will give it the edge over Logan's. And also I didn't mean that Logan won't know what's coming in terms of who he'll be fighting. He won't know what Punisher is going to spring on him. Punisher has done pretty well fighting him without prep, so with prep he would be able to beat him in the majority.
And as for the bullets thing, in an enclosed space such as a cluttered warehouse, Wolverine wouldn't be able to dodge Punisher's shots. When they fought in an open clearing in a forest/jungle setting before, Wolverine was shot by Punisher and didn't sense him in time to dodge, and after that Frank unloaded on him with a shotgun and almost got Wolverine, still managing to catch him with some of the buckshot. This was in a wide, grassy open space after a brief bout of hand to hand combat. So in a more claustrophobic setting amongst crates or such things, Wolverine would certainly be unable to manoeuvre away in time. Punisher could hit him square with a couple of accurate blasts.
Originally posted by Etrigan
I've just admitted that I wasn't thinking when I said that, jinzin already proved me wrong on that one.I do not think that Punisher's stealth is at a higher level than Wolverine's, but I think that his prep will give it the edge over Logan's.
Also Logan stealth>>>>>>>Punishers.
Again pleases read some one wolverine comic and stop with such responses.
Originally posted by Etrigan
And also I didn't mean that Logan won't know what's coming in terms of who he'll be fighting. He won't know what Punisher is going to spring on him.
Originally posted by Etrigan
Punisher has done pretty well fighting him without prep, so with prep he would be able to beat him in the majority.
Punisher with prep has also lost to a wolverine who was toying with him.
Originally posted by Etrigan
And as for the bullets thing, in an enclosed space such as a cluttered warehouse, Wolverine wouldn't be able to dodge Punisher's shots.
Second your assuming it small.
3rd if it was clutter it would make it a lot easier for wolverine to not be hit, by ducking behind items.
4th if clutter it give Logan far either time to uses his superior stealth it ambush punisher
5th wolverine did not need much spaces at all to evade those 9 shooters now did he?
Originally posted by Etrigan
When they fought in an open clearing in a forest/jungle setting before, Wolverine was shot by Punisher and didn't sense him in time to dodge,
So much for that.
Originally posted by Etrigan
and after that Frank unloaded on him with a shotgun and almost got Wolverine, still managing to catch him with some of the buckshot.
…………it was a machine gun which logan had cut in haft. Logan did not even attempt a dodge and they were a foot away from each others. Not to mention if the fight was not interrupted punisher would have died.
Originally posted by Etrigan
This was in a wide, grassy open space after a brief bout of hand to hand combat. So in a more claustrophobic setting amongst crates or such things, Wolverine would certainly be unable to manoeuvre away in time. Punisher could hit him square with a couple of accurate blasts.
The differences is in this confrontation Logan actually going after punisher not some one elses.
Also we have already seen that Logan does not need a lot of spaces to dodge bullets.
Also more objects around allow for Logan to duck away, uses stealth.
Also in the fight your referencing Logan was quite fine and punisher would have likely died had it not been stopped.
Also even if a view bullets hit him, he would not even be slowed.
How would Punisher have died if the fight had not been interrupted? I'm pretty sure it stopped with Punisher having the upper hand.
And when Punisher has done okay in fights with Logan before, it hasn't necessarily been Ennis. The one I'm referencing where Logan was shot in the leg was not Ennis.
I'm going to leave this argument alone for a bit, because I've got to respect that you know your facts pretty damn well. But I still support Punisher on this simply because I see more ways of him using his prep to take out Wolverine than Wolverine could use to take him out without prep.
I'm going with Wolverine all the way. I can't believe this thread got this long. Wolverine will dodged out of the way from any gun fire or take it. Hide somewhere then the battle turns into the Punisher looking for Wolverine while Wolverine to hunting him. And then out of nowhere. Wolverine gos in for the kill, game over.
Originally posted by Etrigan
Yeah, I suppose that's fair. Wasn't really thinking there, you got me on that one, jinzin.But I still maintain that Frank's prep is going to give him the edge here. In an hour he can kit up with as much as he can in his general arsenal, which is a lot, more than enough for him to be able to shoot the hell out of Logan before Logan can get to him. Wolverine isn't very likely to use stealth to come at Frank; Punisher could slow him down with no trouble and then use that for the time required to beat Wolverine. Also, the scans of his bullet dodges are in open spaces; a street, a forest, open environments. This is a cluttered warehouse. There may be space in a warehouse, yeah, but I'm betting it would be a safer option for Logan to take cover than to dodge, in which case Punisher could just put explosives to use either to drive him out of cover or to beat him while he's in there.
Can I ask when the Deadpool prep attack on Wolverine happened? The stalemate, that is.
The Deadpool fight is in both the Wolverine and Deadpool respect threads, it's in Wolverine origins beginning at 21 and lasting several books through.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion, and you at least have far more reasonable rationale for thinking Punisher wins that most people throwing him their vote on here so I can respect that.
But, I simply disagree.
To me, there seems to be too much that Punisher has to negotiate.
First he has to get himself safe at a distance so Logan doesn't get him within close quarters (which I think is pretty much Logan's fight anyway you look at it). the enclosed space works against Punisher as much as it could for him, he'll run out of room to run away should the situation call for it.
Then he's got to nullify Logan's senses, Logan's hearing is so good he can spot commandos breaking into a Werehouse 100 yards away.
His sense of smell so keen he could distinguish the difference of an AOA timeline character from a 616 counterpart on Ofactory sense alone. Hell his sense of smell is better than Daredevil's and was able to tell that 616 heroes weren't themselves when their bodies had been taken over by their dopplegangers during the infinity war. Logan's eyes take so many frames a second that his brain interprets bullets going by him in slow motion, and has stated that doding lasers is easy for him.
Then, Frank has to negotiate Wolverine's training, Wolverine being a student of mystical and physical ninja arts has been able to dissapear in broad daylight in front of nightcrawler, he was able to dissapear infront of the X-Force and sneak up on Feral (even with her animal keen senses), he was capable of dissapearing after being shot once by the sniper that Winter Soldier had hired (one moment he was in the scope the next he was gone). His stealth abilities are second to few. Coming into the werehouse Wolverine could easily turn the tables on Frank here, even if Frank gets first blood he might simply loose track of Logan.
Which brings us to Logan's speed, in spite of what Punisher fanboys want to have people believe Wolverine is fully capable of dodging and weaving through gunfire, it's true that he's been shot many many times in many many fights, but it's also true most of the time he's actually tried to avoid getting hit, he's succeeded in doing just that. The examples of Wolverine legitimately getting shot or hit with projectiles while trying to avoid them are few and far between, and absolutely overshadowed by what he HAS dodged. Wolverine's speed has had him moving faster than the human eye can register, faster than Psylocke's mind could follow, faster than Speed Demon or Speedball could defend against, covering 20 to 50 feet in the blink of an eye, and having Spiderman second guess his own attributes in speed. If Punisher could connect bullets or whatever else on Logan, would he be able to keep Logan from closing the distance long enough to drop him?
Which finally brings us to his healing factor. It's also important to remember that the majority of times Wolverine HAS been shot it's been because he made no attempt to avoid it, and on most occasions, it's because he knows he can take it just fine. His damage soak (even if it's slowed down due to recent story arcs) is still incredible. In the early 90's Wolverine was taking adamantium tipped exploding bullets to go on fighting Omega Red and his pheramones for almost 18 hours straight. There's a fairly decent possibility that if Logan was getting hit with what Punisher was throwing at him, it might not put him down anyways.
Punisher has to negotiate all of this and come out on top when people like Deadpool, Winter Soldier, and Zaran all failed.
Can Punisher beat Wolverine with prep? It's possible, it might be probably given some scenarios.... But can he do it here, with the recources he currently has and only an hour to prepare? I certainly don't think so.
Originally posted by EtriganNo there isn't. the only holes into the skull are nerve passage ways. the largest hole is where the spine would be, which means the vertebrae block the passage.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's a big bone hollow in the shelf of your jaw, so if Punisher could take Logan by surprise then he could knock him down with some explosives and then put a few shots in there. The bullets would get into Logan's brain that way.
Originally posted by Sado22Its a violation of the rules on the basis of the SMvsFL rule.
oh hell, don't tell me you think that logan can't be dropped by a shot to the eye.............when we've seen him getting dropped with it. you're wasting everyone's mr-i-can-take-a-bat-to-the-balls 😉
Also reported for trolling.
It's funny how the punisher side has to break KMC's rules in order to get a win.
Sorry but the shot to the eye is SMvsFL or at least PIS. Wolverine's skeleton is laced with adamantium. There is bone behind the eye.
"it happened" before only once. Just like Spiderman versus firelord where Spiderman knocked out Firelord. However using such showings is against the rules.
Face facts. Punisher is not going to be shooting Wiolverine directly in the brain.
Originally posted by Creshosk
No there isn't. the only holes into the skull are nerve passage ways. the largest hole is where the spine would be, which means the vertebrae block the passage.
I think he's referring to the rather small "openings" just under the cheek bones. Still though, not a way for a bullet to penetrate the brain.
Originally posted by batdude123
I think he's referring to the rather small "openings" just under the cheek bones. Still though, not a way for a bullet to penetrate the brain.
Wherever he's refering to wouldn't work. It's sudicide for Frank to even try.
Of course these are the Punisher equivilent to Storm's 2damnloud and Rutog.
Sado=2damnloud
Rutog=Phantom Zone.
One posts mostly just a few lines and is someone who's quick to insult.
One is more eloquent with his words, but dressed up shit is still shit.
