The John 3:16 & 4:16 flaw?

Originally posted by anaconda
oh really Christianity are those who follow ther word of this alleged jesus christ, among them you find the catholics, they are just one of numerous denominations. It says more about the religion as a whole when you see how many followers of it it has and how many who really have a differnt doctrine on the same word

* don't you get it? they are fake christians... Christ preached about love and commanded never to kill any person, yet look what Catholics did? millions of people died in their hands, and you still associate them with Christianity? you still consider them Christians? think about it... true Christians are written in the Bible, they are good, not evil...

Originally posted by anaconda
so who is the ones YOU would say are the ones that practice christianity then

* those who practice the law of Christ in the Bible... never can you find a Christian in the Bible who murders people, worship idols and do evil things...

Originally posted by Da Pittman
😆

* you can laugh all you want... we have different beliefs... you might be right, i may be wrong... but there's always a possibility that i may be right and you might be wrong...

Originally posted by Robtard
Peejayd, you do realize that everything (or just about) you say is only supported by the "because the Bible tells me so" mindset?

* i do, because i believe in the Bible... same as Da Pittman, if you don't believe in it, we have no point of argument...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are confusing belief with proof. Proof would be like dropping an apple and having it hit the ground. A Christian, a Muslim and a Buddhist can all drop an apple and the apple will fall to the ground regardless of the persons religion.

* it's not as simple as that... we have different beliefs so proofs will depend on how each person accepts a certain proof...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then you did not understand my premise to begin with.

* i understand...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How do you know that? They may have been very stupid.

* it is very wrong to immediately conclude something like that... the fact that Jesus never specified anything, He knows His disciples understood what He commanded...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You seem to misunderstand most everything I say to you. As a Christian, you should have your faith in god and not in the people who wrote the bible.

* faith in God, true... so how will someone have faith in God? how will you distinguish God from idols? there should be a basis... and my basis is the Bible...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Again you did not get my point at all.

* i'm not trying to squeeze myself in that conversation... i just cleared up something...

What...I am not a mention? LOL

Originally posted by peejayd

* i do, because i believe in the Bible... same as Da Pittman, if you don't believe in it, we have no point of argument...

The majority of the people you debate with in here do not believe that the Bible = God's law.

Originally posted by peejayd
* you can laugh all you want... we have different beliefs... you might be right, i may be wrong... but there's always a possibility that i may be right and you might be wrong...

Originally posted by peejayd
* it's not as simple as that... we have different beliefs so proofs will depend on how each person accepts a certain proof...

You are still confusing belief with proof. You can find anything, no matter how strange it is, and call it proof to support a belief, but that does not mean it qualifies as proof.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i understand...

What do you understand?

Originally posted by peejayd
* it is very wrong to immediately conclude something like that... the fact that Jesus never specified anything, He knows His disciples understood what He commanded...

There is no real proof one why or the other. If you are going to speculate one way, then I have every right to speculate the other.

Originally posted by peejayd
* faith in God, true... so how will someone have faith in God? how will you distinguish God from idols? there should be a basis... and my basis is the Bible...

True faith would not need anything. After all, Jesus said with the faith of a mustard seed you could move a mountain.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i'm not trying to squeeze myself in that conversation... i just cleared up something...

The only thing that was made clear to me is the fact I have to work harder at explaining my ideas to you.

those who practice the law of Christ in the Bible... never can you find a Christian in the Bible who murders people, worship idols and do evil things...

"* don't you get it? they are fake christians... Christ preached about love and commanded never to kill any person, yet look what Catholics did? millions of people died in their hands, and you still associate them with Christianity? you still consider them Christians? think about it... true Christians are written in the Bible, they are good, not evil..."----peejayd

Actually, the literal translation of the Commandment is that you should not commit murder. The Bible does not say it is wrong to kill in self-defense or defense of one's country. Uh, yeah, I consider Catholics Christians. Anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior is a Christian. They've messed up over the years, as everyone has. You can't judge a religion by its believers. The Koran strictly forbids alcohol, yet Bahrain has bar after bar. Some Orthodox Jews might call other Jews fake because they do not follow all the rules of the Torah. The Bible specifically makes the point that humans have a sinful nature and we are prone to make mistakes and deserve hell, yet through Jesus we are saved. You really ought to stop stereotyping every Catholic that's ever lived. My husband and his family are Catholic and they have never hurt anyone.

What are your ideas of a "true" Christian as mentioned in the Bible? Moses? He killed an Egyptian and then tried to hide the body. Noah? He condemned one of his sons to slavery for seeing him drunk and naked. Ruth? She curled up in bed next to a guy she wasn't married to. I think you should familiarize yourself with the Christian ideology that "all have fallen short of the glory of God."

Moses, Noah and Ruth were Jews. But your point is valid, as all the Catholics I know haven't killed or persecuted anyone to my knowledge.

He's just another "my Christianity is better than yours" Christian. Wait, didn't Jesus say something about casting stones?

Well, if you want to go with actual followers of Christ...Peter denied knowing Jesus 3 times.

Originally posted by anaconda
and today that would be...............?

How are "they" hypocrites?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are still confusing belief with proof. You can find anything, no matter how strange it is, and call it proof to support a belief, but that does not mean it qualifies as proof.

* and you are confusing proof with belief... Christians, Muslims and Buddhists all have different beliefs, so it would be very logical that it also depends on what kind of proof they will accept... simply because they have different beliefs...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no real proof one why or the other. If you are going to speculate one way, then I have every right to speculate the other.

* there is... that's why Jesus did not specify anything...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
True faith would not need anything. After all, Jesus said with the faith of a mustard seed you could move a mountain.

* and where did you get that "Jesus said"-thing? where did you get that "mustard seed"-thing? your argument will not be relevant if you don't count the Bible as basis...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The only thing that was made clear to me is the fact I have to work harder at explaining my ideas to you.

* don't worry, same here...

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Actually, the literal translation of the Commandment is that you should not commit murder. The Bible does not say it is wrong to kill in self-defense or defense of one's country. Uh, yeah, I consider Catholics Christians. Anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior is a Christian. They've messed up over the years, as everyone has. [b]You can't judge a religion by its believers. The Koran strictly forbids alcohol, yet Bahrain has bar after bar. Some Orthodox Jews might call other Jews fake because they do not follow all the rules of the Torah. The Bible specifically makes the point that humans have a sinful nature and we are prone to make mistakes and deserve hell, yet through Jesus we are saved. You really ought to stop stereotyping every Catholic that's ever lived. My husband and his family are Catholic and they have never hurt anyone.[/B]

* i did not judge a religious organization by its believers... their believers are only misled... i'm after the wrong doctrines... they all claim to use the Bible as their basis but their doctrines disagree with it...

Originally posted by willofthewisp
What are your ideas of a "true" Christian as mentioned in the Bible? Moses? He killed an Egyptian and then tried to hide the body. Noah? He condemned one of his sons to slavery for seeing him drunk and naked. Ruth? She curled up in bed next to a guy she wasn't married to. I think you should familiarize yourself with the Christian ideology that "all have fallen short of the glory of God."

* Christians are the disciples of Christ in the New Testament...

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Well, if you want to go with actual followers of Christ...Peter denied knowing Jesus 3 times.

* if Christ forgave Peter for what he did, why can't you?

Originally posted by Robtard
Moses, Noah and Ruth were Jews. But your point is valid, as all the Catholics I know haven't killed or persecuted anyone to my knowledge.

He's just another "my Christianity is better than yours" Christian.

* i did not judge a religious organization by its believers... their believers are only misled... i'm after the wrong doctrines... they all claim to use the Bible as their basis but their doctrines disagree with it...

Originally posted by Robtard
Wait, didn't Jesus say something about casting stones?

* John 7:53-8:11 is not included in the original manuscript of the Bible...

Originally posted by peejayd
* John 7:53-8:11 is not included in the original manuscript of the Bible...

In the story of the adulteress and the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," the Pharisees neglected to bring forth the man who was in adultery with her, and it is likely that they set her up in a trap in order to try to outwit Jesus.

"* if Christ forgave Peter for what he did, why can't you?"---peejayd

Who said I didn't forgive him? My point was that all Christians are imperfect people. Peter is a perfect example of a fallible person who still managed to retain his faith and do some really great things.

"* and where did you get that "Jesus said"-thing? where did you get that "mustard seed"-thing? your argument will not be relevant if you don't count the Bible as basis..."----peejayd

It's in the Bible. Most scholars agree that Jesus at least walked the earth and was a real person. What's debated is whether or not he is God, so why are you arguing about petty statements? Even most nonbelievers agree that Jesus was overall a positive force in the world, preaching love, and that any "evil" that has stemmed from Christianity has come from misinterpretation or over-zealousness.

"* i did not judge a religious organization by its believers... their believers are only misled... i'm after the wrong doctrines... they all claim to use the Bible as their basis but their doctrines disagree with it..."---peejayd

The church I grew up in, the church I attend now, and my own belief system concentrate mainly on the Bible, so how do church doctrines go against what is in the Bible? The Bible can be interpreted many ways, literally, figuratively, etc. So if one church does one thing differently than another, that's not necessarily going against doctrine. They are using the Bible as their basis. Look at the big picture. Consider baptism. Every Christian church I know of believes in baptism. However, some churchs sprinkle water, others completely immerse you...the small things like that don't matter and if you ask the church leaders and congregation why they do it the way they do, they'll tell you it's how they interpret the passages in the Bible regarding baptism.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
How are "they" hypocrites?

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
In the story of the adulteress and the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," the Pharisees neglected to bring forth the man who was in adultery with her, and it is likely that they set her up in a trap in order to try to outwit Jesus.

Those crafty Jews... boy, were they in for a surprise, messing with God and all.

Originally posted by peejayd
* and where did you get that "Jesus said"-thing? where did you get that "mustard seed"-thing? your argument will not be relevant if you don't count the Bible as basis...

I never said the bible wasn't a book that could be quoted from. In my bible, and yes I have a bible, the best parts are in red. I think quoting Jesus is more acceptable then quoting Paul. The only point about the bible that I have consistently made was that the bible is just a book, and not the word of any god.

"They preach love, but do the opposite."---deja vu

I wish you would stop generalizing. Every church I have attended and every fellow Christian (Protestants and Catholics alike) I have had the privilege of being friends with have never been aggressive, belligerent people. They are friendly people and when it comes to their faith, they are more than happy to explain it and invite you to church with them, but it goes no further than that. If you are citing examples from history, you should look at what empires and establishments other than "Christian" ones did to the world. Oh, and because someone says they are a Christian doesn't mean they truly are. In the past, especially in Europe, a person often went to church and spoke of religious motives as a means of propaganda and justification.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Who said I didn't forgive him? My point was that all Christians are imperfect people. Peter is a perfect example of a fallible person who still managed to retain his faith and do some really great things.

* in the Bible, if you are forgiven, you really are forgiven... a Christian might commit a sin unwillfully or due to any uncertain circumstance but when he is forgiven, no sin will be imputed on him...

Originally posted by willofthewisp
It's in the Bible. Most scholars agree that Jesus at least walked the earth and was a real person. What's debated is whether or not he is God, so why are you arguing about petty statements? Even most nonbelievers agree that Jesus was overall a positive force in the world, preaching love, and that any "evil" that has stemmed from Christianity has come from misinterpretation or over-zealousness.

* if the basis is Bible, Jesus is divine...

Originally posted by willofthewisp
The church I grew up in, the church I attend now, and my own belief system concentrate mainly on the Bible, so how do church doctrines go against what is in the Bible? The Bible can be interpreted many ways, literally, figuratively, etc. So if one church does one thing differently than another, that's not necessarily going against doctrine. They are using the Bible as their basis. Look at the big picture. Consider baptism. Every Christian church I know of believes in baptism. However, some churchs sprinkle water, others completely immerse you...the small things like that don't matter and if you ask the church leaders and congregation why they do it the way they do, they'll tell you it's how they interpret the passages in the Bible regarding baptism.

* that's the point... where in the Bible can you find sprinkling of water as baptism? it's not how they base their in the Bible, but how they misinterpret the Bible...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I never said the bible wasn't a book that could be quoted from. In my bible, and yes I have a bible, the best parts are in red. I think quoting Jesus is more acceptable then quoting Paul. The only point about the bible that I have consistently made was that the bible is just a book, and not the word of any god.

* way out of line there... however, your post still tends to go on my favor... you can never have faith without basis... because faith without basis is either stupidity or zealousness or blindness... and if you find Jesus' words in the Bible acceptable as basis of faith, then that's good, because we're on the same page...

Originally posted by Deja~vu
They preach love, but do the opposite.

* that's the problem... people tend to generalize... people tend to immediately conclude... but why? because there are false prophets and preachers who always give Christianity a very bad name... how? by misinterpreting the Bible, particularly the words of God, Jesus, apostles and prophets - for personal and financial benefits... and those people (false prophets and preachers) and their religious organizations are the ones i am calling fake Christians...