Originally posted by stormfront13
that malestrom wasn't created by storm,and could be from a completely different nature. with his wings flash-frozen he will be limited flight wise, even if he can fly without them. crawler, you said that it only speculation as to whether he has TK, so we can't use that as proof. he may have been in cold waters, but the cold waters didn't have a mind of their own, and they weren't even trying to freeze him. if storm can accidental break concrete, then she can freeze namorin an ice statue as she did to omega red. she wasn't even really trying to freeze red, but she did so if she tries she can do it to namor. also namor will be fighting while not being able to breath. and whoever said it takes a long time to do tornado's, well then read my post in the first few pages. in fact I'll post it again.***** she did it to phoenix(jean grey using the code-name) instantly and jean was so surprised that she couldn't focus her powers to attack storm. then there was the time during the dark phoenix saga where she instantly created a tornado around dark phoenix and the attack was so strong it blew phoenix away and she put her hands over face for cover. also the time where a member of gene-nation had a gun to her head, storm created a tornado to blow him away. there are literally tons of times, but these are off the top of my head. also storm, has the speed advantage here. also storm could flash-freeze namors wings grounding him, then lift him in the air and he would be at her mercy.*****namor isn't faster than the speed of thought which is all it takes to take flight. all the time storm instantly summons a force of wind to keep up with all the flying x-men. a while ago storm accelerated faster than cannonball who can supposedly go from 0 to 100 in a second. the only advantages namor has in this are strength and durability, which as galactic has pointed out can be overcome by storm. sun lasers will definitely do damage, dehydrating him will be affective, and whirly the link you said is the most reliable source on the Internet said he only has enhanced reflexes while he is in water, he doesn't have them out of water.
That Maelstrom was multiple times stronger then anything Storm can do. Namor, with his Class 100 strength, durability and the fact he doesn't need winds for flying, can wade through it. Tell me one guy/gal who was class 100 with ability of flight who Storm pinned down. Phoenix doesn't apply, she was still in fragile body of Jean Grey, winds strong enough would have ripped her into shreds. Namor doesn't have same problem. Namor's bio actually says that his body is developed to withstand freezing temperatures, so the flash freeze may not work. Namor isn't concrete. Namor is more durable then Omega Red. Omega Red or concrete are not specifically designed to withstand freezing temperatures.
And how can Storm even flash freeze him when he is moving with blinding velocity? She doesn't have lock-on system similar to Iron Man? Because even he has trouble getting concentrated on Namor. Namor as 12 year old accelerated so fast that he reached an German fighter that was flying in few seconds. You keep saying that he isn't faster then speed of thought. Thought is all that Storm needs to get in flight. Well, that's all that Namor needs. And as he can react faster then Storm (Similar to two guys, one is professional runner and one is normal guy. Which one of them starts running earlier?) he will get in flight before she can and has great chance of getting to her before she can crate tornadoes, sun lasers and other things. Even if the tornado appears in instant, it may not be strong enough to hold Namor in place when it is first created. Taken on account Namor's flight speed and durability, Namor might not be inside it when it is strong enough to hold him. And like I have said, Namor is fast enough to dodge the sun lasers.
Originally posted by stormfront13
that malestrom wasn't created by storm,and could be from a completely different nature. with his wings flash-frozen he will be limited flight wise, even if he can fly without them. crawler, you said that it only speculation as to whether he has TK, so we can't use that as proof. he may have been in cold waters, but the cold waters didn't have a mind of their own, and they weren't even trying to freeze him. if storm can accidental break concrete, then she can freeze namorin an ice statue as she did to omega red. she wasn't even really trying to freeze red, but she did so if she tries she can do it to namor. also namor will be fighting while not being able to breath. and whoever said it takes a long time to do tornado's, well then read my post in the first few pages. in fact I'll post it again.***** she did it to phoenix(jean grey using the code-name) instantly and jean was so surprised that she couldn't focus her powers to attack storm. then there was the time during the dark phoenix saga where she instantly created a tornado around dark phoenix and the attack was so strong it blew phoenix away and she put her hands over face for cover. also the time where a member of gene-nation had a gun to her head, storm created a tornado to blow him away. there are literally tons of times, but these are off the top of my head. also storm, has the speed advantage here. also storm could flash-freeze namors wings grounding him, then lift him in the air and he would be at her mercy.*****namor isn't faster than the speed of thought which is all it takes to take flight. all the time storm instantly summons a force of wind to keep up with all the flying x-men. a while ago storm accelerated faster than cannonball who can supposedly go from 0 to 100 in a second. the only advantages namor has in this are strength and durability, which as galactic has pointed out can be overcome by storm. sun lasers will definitely do damage, dehydrating him will be affective, and whirly the link you said is the most reliable source on the Internet said he only has enhanced reflexes while he is in water, he doesn't have them out of water.
*****That Maelstrom was multiple times stronger then anything Storm can do*****
^^exactly lol, you just proved my point. the malestrom was so strong it was like swimming through water. now if storms is weaker, then it will be different.
*****Tell me one guy/gal who was class 100 with ability of flight who Storm pinned down*****
^^as far as I'm aware of she has never had the chance, but if she did, she could.
*****Namor as 12 year old accelerated so fast that he reached an German fighter that was flying in few seconds*****
^^and as never explained they only go 400 mph, and storm does that speed for fun.
*****Phoenix doesn't apply*****
^^so storm actually hurling a god that could have killed namor in a second, hurling her around doesn't count because she was in a fragile body?
*****Namor's bio actually says that his body is developed to withstand freezing temperatures, so the flash freeze may not work. Namor isn't concrete. Namor is more durable then Omega Red. Omega Red or concrete are not specifically designed to withstand freezing temperatures. *****
^^and I'm not doubting he can't withstand freezing temperatures, but he has no way from stopping storm from encasing him in an ice statue which will immobilize him even more.
*****She doesn't have lock-on system similar to Iron Man*****
^^yeah she kinda does, she can sense him through the wind, she can sense his bio-electric field, and she can shift her senses to see his heat signature.
****And as he can react faster then Storm*****
^^^still debatable, the site that everyone said was the most accurate on the Internet said he only had enhanced reflexes when he is in water. he may have good reflexes due to experience and training, but I doubt enhanced. storm has avoided gunfire from highly trained assassins from behind, does that mean that she has enhanced reflexes?
******Sun lasers?When she used them?*****
^^storm VS gene nation # 2
*****Storm can accelerate faster than Cannonball just cause she has done it once?Pure assumptions.*****
^^so is namor swimming through a tornado, yet you seem to account for it.
*****Namor pick up a piece of metal from a building and throw it at Storm full force, with Namor's strength the piece will pass through her and reach Coney Island and Storm will be dead.*****
^^namor's body will telegraph he is throwing something, so storm will have time to create a pressure dome, or summon lightning to the piece of metal of course, or simply dodge it.
"""" Its thickening becoming nearly solid.....We are lost unless I can swim through the thickened ether.""""
"semi liquid swirl" " Like swimming up a waterfall"
These are all terms used to describe the maelstrom both by Namor and the captions themselves. It was basically like being caught up in a Whirlpool, the matter of the maelstrom had become liquid-like therefore Namor with his Atlantean heritage was the best equipped to swim through the ether. As he says himself were it not for the liquid nature of the maelstrom then he would have met his end. Despite his flight capabilities which in such a vortex were nullified. Namor had to rely on his strength which due to the nature of the vortex was the only thing that would work. In one of Storms hurricanes he wouldnt nearly be so lucky.
That is the difference between this maelstrom and the hurricane that storm would mentally direct at Namor. Water is a far denser medium than air, caught up in a hurricane Namor would not be able to swim his way through. There would me nothing for him to apply his strength to rendering that attribute useless. Unlike this malestrom which was directed at all living things, all of the defenders, storms hurricane will be focused solely on Namor. Big difference. Caught up in such a vortex Namors subsonic flight is no use as you can see from your own proof. He was not flying through the vortex he was swimming through. Despite him being able to fly he said were it not for the liquid like state which enabled him to swim through it then he would be lost. If storm focused a hurricane on Namor then both his strength and his flight would be useless. A natural hurricane force wind blowing in one direction then a capable flier with enough speed could navigate through at a dramatically slowed down pace, however under Storms mental direction the hurricane would adapt to his struggles. He would be constantly spun around , kept off balance and Storm could just strike him with sun lasers, flash freeze his wings to make him totally defenceless against the vortex, or she could just slam him around into the scenery until he is knocked unconscious.
There is no evidence of Namor having self telekinesis. You can not go by theories and present them in here as if they are god spoken truth. Thats not good enough DC. Also even if he did have self tk to fly caught up in a hurricane it would be rendered useless as it was in your evidence on page 4. Jean Grey one of the strongest telekinetics on the face of the planet, was left grounded when caught up in one of storms hurricanes which wasnt even directed at her, but at Legion in the near vicinity. Jean soon fainted from the effort of staying anchored against the winds. Namors self telekinesis(if it even exists) is laughable in comparison. Therefore i conclude that in Storms winds Namors strength and his flight would be rendered useless. DC he would not be able to remain stationary (via self tk) against such force because he doesnt have the power, he would not be able to wade his way through because it is a vortex directed solely at him, for him to do that it would have to be blowing in one direction, but that would not be the case. That is not the nature of a vortex. He would be spun around helplessly, kept off balance. Theres a picture on this thread of Namor resisting some wind like force which is blowing in one direction. First id like to note that he isnt airborne but he's grounded because if he let go he would be swept up helplessly as ive been trying to tell you he would be. Also the wind is blowing in one direction and Namor is crawling on the ground desperately forcing his way slowly against. What do you think would happen if the wind changed direction and blew at him from the side. Exactly. He would get swept away.
All this talk of reaction time is pointless because it would only really matter if they were fighting h2h. As they are not it really doesnt factor into it and doesnt give Namor any real advantage when you consider all of his powers require him to get up close to Storm to apply them effectively and given that she's faster in the air than he is and that her winds render his strength and flight useless his apparently faster reflexes just dont come into it.
Storm can fly faster than him and all of her powers are psionically activated. Her energy attacks manifest almost instantaneously while a hurricane manifests after a second or two. Given that Storm is faster in the air than him, the fact that she would keep her distance from him throughout the fight with her long range powers enabling her to, Namor having faster reflexes really doesnt factor in. I emphasise the fact that they are not fighting h2h. 🙄
Storm wins.
Originally posted by stormfront13^^exactly lol, you just proved my point. the malestrom was so strong it was like swimming through water. now if storms is weaker, then it will be different.
How it will be different? If he is strong enough to go through the maelstrom with strain, then he is strong enough to go through everything Storm can make. Have you ever been on car with window open? Next time you are, put your hand out from it. You can clearly feel the wind. If you wouldn't try, the wind would throw your hand around. But you can force it through it. Now, if you would be in hurricane, you couldn't do anything for it. But for Namor, who is thousand times more stronger, and more durable then you are, the hurricane would be like putting your hand out and forcing it through the wind. He could wade through it. Now, for someone like Hulk, it isn't as easy, simply because he can't move himself unless he has anything to grasp. But Namor can lift himself from the ground with will, it is much more easier for him.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^as far as I'm aware of she has never had the chance, but if she did, she could.
Oh yeah. She has never done it but she could. Namor has never defeated Silver Surfer, but mark my words, he could do it. 🙄
Prove your point next time.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^and as never explained they only go 400 mph, and storm does that speed for fun.
Namor does that speed for fun too. As 12 year old. He went that speed EASILY as twelve year old. Now, think about it. How fast he can go as adult? And for your information, maximum speed of Messerschmitt Me 262, one of German fighter planes, was 540 miles per hour.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^so storm actually hurling a god that could have killed namor in a second, hurling her around doesn't count because she was in a fragile body?
God that could kill Storm in second, too. With one thought. God that weighs 110 lbs. Namor could easily throw her around too, with one finger, if given a chance. Like you said, she took Dark Phoenix by surprise. In real fight, do you seriously think that Storm would last even second against Dark Phoenix? If you do, you have serious delusions.
No, it doesn't count.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^and I'm not doubting he can't withstand freezing temperatures, but he has no way from stopping storm from encasing him in an ice statue which will immobilize him even more.
I'm sorry, but doesn't that cold air he needs to be in has to hit him, thoroughly? I have the issue where she freezes the concrete. It takes her about eight seconds to freeze the concrete. Now imagine how long it takes her to freeze Namor, who is fifty times stronger then concrete, and is designed to be extremely resistant to cold. Quite longer. And Namor isn't going to be in that one place as long.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^yeah she kinda does, she can sense him through the wind, she can sense his bio-electric field, and she can shift her senses to see his heat signature.
Namor has still stay in one place for her to do her tricks. He isn't going to. And Namor can sense her too, he has the radar sense of cave-fish. If everything else fails, he can throw her with something.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^^still debatable, the site that everyone said was the most accurate on the Internet said he only had enhanced reflexes when he is in water. he may have good reflexes due to experience and training, but I doubt enhanced. storm has avoided gunfire from highly trained assassins from behind, does that mean that she has enhanced reflexes?
Example: Namor does the same shit Spider-Man does, regulary, with even better success. You aren't going to argue that Spider-Man doesn't have super-reflexes? It's really straightforward.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^storm VS gene nation # 2
There's comic like that? I haven't found any records of it...gimem a link, and I can dowload it.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^so is namor swimming through a tornado, yet you seem to account for it.
Namor has swimmed through lot of things quite many times...air is close to water, especially if it is in tornado form.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^namor's body will telegraph he is throwing something, so storm will have time to create a pressure dome, or summon lightning to the piece of metal of course, or simply dodge it.
You realize it took her at least ten seconds to do the pressure dome? And it knocked her out? I have the issue right here, I can post the scans if you wish. As Namor can move with speed enough to dodge Mach 1 attacks from close range, he can throw it fast enough for Storm not being able to react. And Storm isn't going to dodge something that comes 5000 mph at her. No matter how much you like her.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
"""" Its thickening becoming nearly solid.....We are lost unless I can swim through the thickened ether."""""semi liquid swirl" " Like swimming up a waterfall"
These are all terms used to describe the maelstrom both by Namor and the captions themselves. It was basically like being caught up in a Whirlpool, the matter of the maelstrom had become liquid-like therefore Namor with his Atlantean heritage was the best equipped to swim through the ether. As he says himself were it not for the liquid nature of the maelstrom then he would have met his end. Despite his flight capabilities which in such a vortex were nullified. Namor had to rely on his strength which due to the nature of the vortex was the only thing that would work. In one of Storms hurricanes he wouldnt nearly be so lucky.
That is the difference between this maelstrom and the hurricane that storm would mentally direct at Namor. Water is a far denser medium than air, caught up in a hurricane Namor would not be able to swim his way through. There would me nothing for him to apply his strength to rendering that attribute useless. Unlike this malestrom which was directed at all living things, all of the defenders, storms hurricane will be focused solely on Namor. Big difference. Caught up in such a vortex Namors subsonic flight is no use as you can see from your own proof. He was not flying through the vortex he was swimming through. Despite him being able to fly he said were it not for the liquid like state which enabled him to swim through it then he would be lost. If storm focused a hurricane on Namor then both his strength and his flight would be useless. A natural hurricane force wind blowing in one direction then a capable flier with enough speed could navigate through at a dramatically slowed down pace, however under Storms mental direction the hurricane would adapt to his struggles. He would be constantly spun around , kept off balance and Storm could just strike him with sun lasers, flash freeze his wings to make him totally defenceless against the vortex, or she could just slam him around into the scenery until he is knocked unconscious.
There is no evidence of Namor having self telekinesis. You can not go by theories and present them in here as if they are god spoken truth. Thats not good enough DC. Also even if he did have self tk to fly caught up in a hurricane it would be rendered useless as it was in your evidence on page 4. Jean Grey one of the strongest telekinetics on the face of the planet, was left grounded when caught up in one of storms hurricanes which wasnt even directed at her, but at Legion in the near vicinity. Jean soon fainted from the effort of staying anchored against the winds. Namors self telekinesis(if it even exists) is laughable in comparison. Therefore i conclude that in Storms winds Namors strength and his flight would be rendered useless. DC he would not be able to remain stationary (via self tk) against such force because he doesnt have the power, he would not be able to wade his way through because it is a vortex directed solely at him, for him to do that it would have to be blowing in one direction, but that would not be the case. That is not the nature of a vortex. He would be spun around helplessly, kept off balance. Theres a picture on this thread of Namor resisting some wind like force which is blowing in one direction. First id like to note that he isnt airborne but he's grounded because if he let go he would be swept up helplessly as ive been trying to tell you he would be. Also the wind is blowing in one direction and Namor is crawling on the ground desperately forcing his way slowly against. What do you think would happen if the wind changed direction and blew at him from the side. Exactly. He would get swept away.
“Next time you are, put your hand out from it. You can clearly feel the wind. If you wouldn't try, the wind would throw your hand around. But you can force it through it. Now, if you would be in hurricane, you couldn't do anything for it. But for Namor, who is thousand times stronger, and more durable then you are, the hurricane would be like putting your hand out and forcing it through the wind. He could wade through it. Now, for someone like Hulk, it isn't as easy, simply because he can't move himself unless he has anything to grasp. But Namor can lift himself from the ground with will; it is much easier for him.”
Namor can fly through the hurricane. If he only uses his wings, it would be impossible for him to fly. He doesn’t have hollow bones, and it would be impossible for him to fly in space. What if he is already accelerated when Storm makes the tornado? It isn’t strong enough to hold him. Storm can’t make tornadoes that swirl around 1000 mph instantly (And top speed for tornadoes is 300 mph). She isn’t reality manipulator. The wind has to form take shape and then gain more rotation speed. Like I have said, he is strong and fast enough to fly through the tornado when it’s forming. He accelerated from 0 to 300-400 mph in few seconds when he was young, he is fast enough.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All this talk of reaction time is pointless because it would only really matter if they were fighting h2h. As they are not it really doesnt factor into it and doesnt give Namor any real advantage when you consider all of his powers require him to get up close to Storm to apply them effectively and given that she's faster in the air than he is and that her winds render his strength and flight useless his apparently faster reflexes just dont come into it.Storm can fly faster than him and all of her powers are psionically activated. Her energy attacks manifest almost instantaneously while a hurricane manifests after a second or two. Given that Storm is faster in the air than him, the fact that she would keep her distance from him throughout the fight with her long range powers enabling her to, Namor having faster reflexes really doesnt factor in. I emphasise the fact that they are not fighting h2h. 🙄
Storm is faster in air, but with his faster reflexes and reaction time enables Namor to get in air faster. As Storm rises in air, she needs to form the tornado, take care of her own flight, make sure she stays in speed that is enough for keeping away from Namor, and meanwhile take care that Namor can’t follow her. She isn't computer, she can't take care of all that in one second. Namor needs to fly straightforward and hit her in the face. Simple. Faster reflexes also mean that Namor has lot more better maneuverability in air. Tornado forming? Quick turn to the right. Laser coming? Turn to the left. I doubt that the lasers move any faster then the ones he has dodged for years with ease. It takes two seconds for the tornado to form. By that time, Namor has gained enough speed to avoid it in midair. You seriously underestimate his skill in air. Storm can fly faster, granted, but Namor has been avoiding aerial attacks for hundred years by now, he isn’t taken down with ease, as you think. Storm isn’t able to keep up her speed while the same time trying to take Namor. Namor flies forward, dodging everything Storm hits him with. Also, he is strong enough to absorb the attacks that hit him. Namor wins.
*****How it will be different*****
^^the malestrom was stronger and in a liquid state, storms won't be in a liquid state. he will be trying to swim through air.
*****Oh yeah. She has never done it but she could. Namor has never defeated Silver Surfer, but mark my words, he could do it.
Prove your point next time. *****
^^iron man admitted that storm would take him down if he were in the air. that's why he never tried.
*****And for your information, maximum speed of Messerschmitt Me 262, one of German fighter planes, was 540 miles per hour. *****
^^unless you have proof that he was racing one of those, it's not proof. if you have it then I stand corrected.
*****God that weighs 110 lbs. Namor could easily throw her around too, with one finger, if given a chance.*****
namor would never had the chance to do anything to her. you asked for an example of storm pinning someone that can lift one hundred tons and can fly, well I gave you one, but because it proves a point you ignore it.
*****Namor has still stay in one place for her to do her tricks*****
^^to say that you know nothing of storm, seriously, that is a ridiculous assumption.
*****There's comic like that? I haven't found any records of it...give me a link, and I can download it. *****
or seeing as I have given you an issue number you could look it up yourself.
*****You realize it took her at least ten seconds to do the pressure dome? And it knocked her out? I have the issue right here, I can post the scans if you wish*****
just out of curiosity, could you post scans, I have never seen them.
*****And Storm isn't going to dodge something that comes 5000 mph at her. No matter how much you like her.*****
^^ if he even has the chance to throw something in hurricane winds, his body will telegraph what he is doing allowing storm to prepare.
*****And top speed for tornadoes is 300 mph*****
^^storm can break the laws of nature, so she could make a tornado with speeds of mach 1 and such. also namor will have to fight while not being able to breath which means he will tire quicker and his concentration will be of as will his reaction time and reflexes.
namor isn't winning this, no matter how much you like him
also crawler, go look at your own wolverine VS namor thread. there are pictures of wolverine suprising namor, jumping on namor, namor being slashed by wolverines claws. for someone with enhanced reflexes and reaction time do you honestly think wolverine would have done that. and he aint that inculnerable if he was cut by wolverines claws. a jagged piece of metal would clearly hurt namor flying at 300 mph. if wolverine can suprise namor, then there should be no reason storm can't seeing as according to wolverine storm is as fast as him and in uncanny x-men the issue where betsy is brought back i believe(i may be wrong) that it says storm has a speed advantage over wolverine. so wolverine who was fast enough to get the drop on namor, if wolvie was fast enough then storm is to.
Originally posted by stormfront13
also crawler, go look at your own wolverine VS namor thread. there are pictures of wolverine suprising namor, jumping on namor, namor being slashed by wolverines claws. for someone with enhanced reflexes and reaction time do you honestly think wolverine would have done that. and he aint that inculnerable if he was cut by wolverines claws. a jagged piece of metal would clearly hurt namor flying at 300 mph. if wolverine can suprise namor, then there should be no reason storm can't seeing as according to wolverine storm is as fast as him and in uncanny x-men the issue where betsy is brought back i believe(i may be wrong) that it says storm has a speed advantage over wolverine. so wolverine who was fast enough to get the drop on namor, if wolvie was fast enough then storm is to.