Originally posted by stormfront13
what? and if you are saying what i think you are saying then you should read pages 1 and 2, both crawler and I admitted that it is 50/50 that both storm and namor are both capable of winning.
I'm honestly not really against Storm, nor am I against Namor. I just don't think that was very cool of you to say is all.
I, too, think, more often than not, that this match will be 5/10.
*****Wolverine surprising Namor, it wasn't even a fresh out of water Namor, his durability decrease as his strenght the more he's far from water.*****
^^I know all of that, and she could easily dry him out to make it like he was out of the water for a long time. the fact is still that he was taken by suprise by someone who has less speed than storm.
*****I just don't think that was very cool of you to say is all.*****
^^say what? and if it sounded offensive it wasn't meant to be.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^the malestrom was stronger and in a liquid state, storms won't be in a liquid state. he will be trying to swim through air.
Air that is dense enough to lift really heavy things. Tornado is like cyclone of water. Namor is able to fly through it. He has gained enough speed by the seconds it takes for the tornados appear, especially if he went for flight before Storm. Namor isn’t staying on the same place enough for the tornado to suck him in it.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^iron man admitted that storm would take him down if he were in the air. that's why he never tried.
Iron Man isn’t Namor. Namor has more experience, maneuverability and skill in flying.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^unless you have proof that he was racing one of those, it's not proof. if you have it then I stand corrected.
I just fixed the assumption that WWII fighter’s top speed was 400 mph…
Originally posted by stormfront13
namor would never had the chance to do anything to her. you asked for an example of storm pinning someone that can lift one hundred tons and can fly, well I gave you one, but because it proves a point you ignore it.
Phoenix? She was taken by surprise. Iron Man? Neither of them isn’t Namor. Iron man is slower then he is. Phoenix is still in body of Jean Grey. She shielded her face because it couldn’t take it…
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^to say that you know nothing of storm, seriously, that is a ridiculous assumption.
How come?
Originally posted by stormfront13
or seeing as I have given you an issue number you could look it up yourself.
Googled it. Nothing came out.
Originally posted by stormfront13
just out of curiosity, could you post scans, I have never seen them.
She clearly can't make it before Namor's projectile hits him.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^ if he even has the chance to throw something in hurricane winds, his body will telegraph what he is doing allowing storm to prepare.
When his body is moving with speeds enough to dodge Mach 1 attacks, I doubt it.
Originally posted by stormfront13
^^storm can break the laws of nature, so she could make a tornado with speeds of mach 1 and such. also namor will have to fight while not being able to breath which means he will tire quicker and his concentration will be of as will his reaction time and reflexes.
namor isn't winning this, no matter how much you like him
Tell me one time she has made tornado with Mach 1 speeds. Namor can hold his breath pretty damn long, too. Namor is winning this at least 5/10.
"Tornado - A dark, funnel-shaped cloud containing violently rotating air that develops below a heavy cumulonimbus cloud mass and extends toward the earth. The funnel twists about, rises and falls, and where it reaches the earth causes great destruction. The diameter of a tornado varies from a few feet to a mile; the rotating winds may attain velocities of 200 to 300 mi (320–480 km) per hr, and the updraft at the center may reach 200 mi per hr. The Fujita scale is the standard scale for rating the severity of a tornado as measured by the damage it causes. A tornado is usually accompanied by thunder, lightning, heavy rain, and a loud “freight train” noise. In comparison with a cyclone or hurricane, a tornado covers a much smaller area but can be violent and destructive. The atmospheric conditions required for the formation of a tornado include great thermal instability, high humidity, and the convergence of warm, moist air at low levels with cooler, drier air aloft." - World Dictionary.
The Maelstrom that Nomor "swam" up was a tornado x 10. That is why it was so thick and ether like. So thick that Surfer nor Strange could move. All Hulk could do was hold on at the bottom. A regular tornado by no means would toss nor hold Namor down. Therefore Storm would have to conjure up one that is faster, stronger enough to keep Namor engulfed inside. Like ive stated before, she cant created a tornado that is stronger than that. Unless someone can prove otherwise.
Someone mentioned Wolvewrine sneaking up on Namor and his reflexes were somewhat sub-par. In all actuality, As soon as Wolverine jumped out of the tree, Namor spotted him. When Wolverine landed on Namor, He was greeted with a punch in the face. Also like was stated, Namor was on land for a while and wasnt at peak strength, stamina, reflexes etc.
But on the otherhand while battling Mimic, he moved and hit Mimic so fast that he barely saw Namor coming to punch him. Storm on the other hand was totaly unaware of Northstar when he hit her.
Storm sucking all the water out of Namor is a good tactic, but shed have to get a good lock on him to drain enough. But if hes wearing the water suit(black), its not happening.
ornado - A dark, funnel-shaped cloud containing violently rotating air that develops below a heavy cumulonimbus cloud mass and extends toward the earth. The funnel twists about, rises and falls, and where it reaches the earth causes great destruction. The diameter of a tornado varies from a few feet to a mile; the rotating winds may attain velocities of 200 to 300 mi (320–480 km) per hr, and the updraft at the center may reach 200 mi per hr. The Fujita scale is the standard scale for rating the severity of a tornado as measured by the damage it causes. A tornado is usually accompanied by thunder, lightning, heavy rain, and a loud “freight train” noise. In comparison with a cyclone or hurricane, a tornado covers a much smaller area but can be violent and destructive. The atmospheric conditions required for the formation of a tornado include great thermal instability, high humidity, and the convergence of warm, moist air at low levels with cooler, drier air aloft." - World Dictionary
Wouldn't that make Namor a bit stronger? I remember when Namor was under massive tons of ice. The few water drops that came from the ice made him so strong that he was able to smash through it with one blow.
*****Iron Man isn’t Namor. Namor has more experience, maneuverability and skill in flying. *****
^^you just asked for at least one person who is class 100 and can fly, i gave you 2- iron-man and dark phoenix. though the human torch isn't class 100, storm easily held him down.
*****How come?*****
^^ because well for me at least, i thought it was basic knowledge, and in x-treme (i think) she tracked cannonball through energy detecting or something like that.
*****Googled it. Nothing came out*****
^^um.....srry i don't have a scanner, so try uncannyxmen.net and look under issue summaries.
*****She clearly can't make it before Namor's projectile hits him.*****
^^thanks for the scans, i appreciate it, and that dome was to contain a nuke, she needs a very small one to block some rocks, shouldn't be a stretch seeing as one gust of wind will take them off course.
*****When his body is moving with speeds enough to dodge Mach 1 attacks, I doubt it. *****
^^she'll still be able to sense him through the wind. and he'll have to take aim to hit on target.
*****Tell me one time she has made tornado with Mach 1 speeds*****
^^her powers allow her to do it by breaking the laws of nature
*****Namor is winning this at least 5/10*****
^^this is at least one thing we kind of agree on.
*****The Maelstrom that Namer "swam" up was a tornado x 10. That is why it was so thick and ether like. So thick that Surfer nor Strange could move. All Hulk could do was hold on at the bottom. A regular tornado by no means would toss nor hold Namor down. Therefore Storm would have to conjure up one that is faster, stronger enough to keep Namor engulfed inside. Like ive stated before, she cant created a tornado that is stronger than that. Unless someone can prove otherwise.*****
^^the malestrom was also in a part liquefied state giving namor something to swim in. go back and look at the scan, it even says liquefied state.
*****Storm on the other hand was totally unaware of Northstar when he hit her.*****
^^storm had also just stopped an out of control storm created by talisman. it was the size of north America, and it was the first time she has ever done it. she as exhausted and ready to faint, and could barley walk, of course she would be taken out, also he hit her from behind.
******Storm sucking all the water out of Namor is a good tactic, but shed have to get a good lock on him to drain enough. But if hes wearing the water suit(black), its not happening.*****
^^while he can't fly and he is suspended in the air, she could do it. so now we have to give namor benefits to let him win? hardly sounds fair.
Originally posted by stormfront13^^storm had also just stopped an out of control storm created by talisman. it was the size of north America, and it was the first time she has ever done it. she as exhausted and ready to faint, and could barley walk, of course she would be taken out, also he hit her from behind.
Size of North America? I don't think so...I have the issue...
"""""""""""“Next time you are, put your hand out from it. You can clearly feel the wind. If you wouldn't try, the wind would throw your hand around. But you can force it through it. Now, if you would be in hurricane, you couldn't do anything for it. But for Namor, who is thousand times stronger, and more durable then you are, the hurricane would be like putting your hand out and forcing it through the wind. He could wade through it. Now, for someone like Hulk, it isn't as easy, simply because he can't move himself unless he has anything to grasp. But Namor can lift himself from the ground with will; it is much easier for him.”
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DarkCrawler, you're very young so i'll excuse that poor example. For a star when you're in a car and you move your hand through the wind, is the wind focused solely on you or are you in the vicinity of that particular weather pattern? Precisely. If Jean Greys telekinesis cant withstand Storms hurricanes then Namor has no chance. In that scan he said himself were it not for the liquid nature of that maelstrom then all would have been lost, despite his flight. He was sent flying all over the place until he realised he could swim through the maelstrom. His flight had nothing to do with it. He made his way through that maelstrom through his strength and he could only do that because of the maelstroms liquid nature. In one of storms hurricanes he wouldn’t stand a chance. If Jean couldnt do it nor could Namor.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Namor can fly through the hurricane. If he only uses his wings, it would be impossible for him to fly. He doesn’t have hollow bones, and it would be impossible for him to fly in space. What if he is already accelerated when Storm makes the tornado? It isn’t strong enough to hold him. Storm can’t make tornadoes that swirl around 1000 mph instantly (And top speed for tornadoes is 300 mph). She isn’t reality manipulator. The wind has to form take shape and then gain more rotation speed. Like I have said, he is strong and fast enough to fly through the tornado when it’s forming. He accelerated from 0 to 300-400 mph in few seconds when he was young, he is fast enough.
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Someone said already and quite recently on a thread talking about Namor that he has been preveted from flying by an enemy grasping his wings. You're the big Namor fan DC can you verify this? Anyone? I'll ask around myself but Namors wings have always been shown to be what he uses to fly. He is the only Atlantean who can fly and he is the only one with wings. If he did have telekinesis he wouldnt need the wings to steer. As for how would he fly in space, how do mutants exist? How does storm create winds in space? Its Marvel its not a science journal. You also need to think about that point when referring to Storm and her powers. Namor would not be able to fly through a hurricane. Dont link his physical strength to his flight capabilities. Namor cant resist wind with his class 100 strength. He would if he could do so with his flight capabilities be they self tk or via his wings. However as you've seen was the case with that maelstrom in such a vortex because of the rotational motion flight capabilities are greatly hindered if not rendered futile and storms winds under her mebtal control would adapt with a thought to namors movements. Unless Namor can grab hold of something and hang on then he cant fly out and escape it because of its spinning motion. If it was blowing in one direction then he could slowly fly against it, but that’s not the case with a vortex. As you’ve seen through your own evidence, it wasn’t his flight that saved him, it was his strength and even then , his strength could only be applied because of the liquid nature of the maelstrom. Otherwise like he said he would have been lost.
Let me emphasise this again. You cant link his physical strength to his flight capabilities. It doesn’t work like that. Why are you asking for examples of class 100 people who can fly who storm has restrained? In flight anyone of siginificant strength finds that strength useless unless they have something to apply it to. Be it ground to cling on to, or a skyscraper to grab as they’re sent hurtling past it. Being class 100 doesn’t make anyone better able to navigate through a hurricane DC. To do that all they can rely on is their flight capabilities and we’ve seen how well Namor does in a vortex directed at the Defenders, against a hurricane directed solely at him, adapting to his struggles he wouldn’t stand a chance. Especially when being bombarded with sun lasers, or having his wings flash frozen to render him completely helpless. Its only a matter of slamming him into the scenery repeatedly to render him unconscious.
For a reflex, reaction time is the time from the onset of a stimulus until the organism responds. As for all this reflex talk, it only really factors in when characters are engaging direct physical activities. All of Namors attacks are based on direct physical contact so if he was fighting against someone of normal reflexes hand to hand then he would have a major advantage however all of storms attacks, all of her powers are psionically operated so reflexes don’t really factor too much in this fight. Especially when Storm is faster in the air than Namor and her tactic against such an opponent would be to fight at a distance which her long range powers would accommodate for. So while Namor would respond by his brain thinking and sending an electrical signal to his muscles to act, Storm with her psionic based powers would think and then her weather powers would soon manifest. Virtually instantaneously for energy projections while a hurricane level wind takes a second or two to manifest. However as previously mentioned in a long distance battle and with storm being faster in the air than Namor and also when you consider being caught up in a hurricane would render his physical abilities useless, his enhanced reflexes really don’t matter.
Yeah...I understand it now...
But if Namor has gained enough speed, which he can gain in few seconds, isn't he moving fast enough to escape the hurricane when it is forming around him? If Storm's going to really make Mach 1 hurricane, it's not going to appear in milliseconds. She needs to concetrate on winds. She can create hurricanes that take out weaker enemies that can't fly, but Namor can fight against massive tides and such, her normal hurricanes aren't pinning him down with ease. Now, I might be wrong, but I have seen Namor spin his body with massive speeds, wouldn't that be used to escape the hurricanes?
*****But if Namor has gained enough speed, which he can gain in few seconds, isn't he moving fast enough to escape the hurricane when it is forming around him?*****
^^possibly, but I doubt it when his wings are frozen.
*****but I have seen Namor spin his body with massive speeds, wouldn't that be used to escape the hurricanes?*****
^^if he is spinning while in a tornado(if he could), then he is only adding to the wind speed.
*****If Storm's going to really make Mach 1 hurricane, it's not going to appear in milliseconds. She needs to concetrate on winds*****
^^storm just needs to command the wind to do it, the rest is by wind and a regular tornado she has formed in a second. if she can accelerate very, very fast then accelerating the wind speed of a tornado to reach mach 1 shouldn't be a stratch or take that long.
What if he spins in opposite way? I think he has used it to escape similar things before...I have to look for it. Superman does things like that many times, that I know. Now, I'm not saying that he's Superman, but he is not THAT far from Superman's strength and durability, but I think he only needs to spin faster then the tornado, which wouldn't be strecht, he once spinned fast enough to drive through miles of sea rock in few moments. On the other hand, I haven't seen Storm ever make an tornado that spins with Mach 1...
how exactly does he spin? if he uses his wings, then he won't be able to spin. if he purely uses muscle, then there is a small chance that he can, but that is very small. storm will be able to sense that he is spinning the other way, and can either make the air spin harder in the other direction, or suddenly go his way which will more than likely fling namor around and leave him open to attack. and if storm tries to go the other way, while he is spinning he leaves himself open to attack(sun laser). and now you want to give him a trident? really guys, lets not try to twist the fight so namor stands a chance at winning more.
Originally posted by stormfront13
how exactly does he spin? if he uses his wings, then he won't be able to spin. if he purely uses muscle, then there is a small chance that he can, but that is very small. storm will be able to sense that he is spinning the other way, and can either make the air spin harder in the other direction, or suddenly go his way which will more than likely fling namor around and leave him open to attack. and if storm tries to go the other way, while he is spinning he leaves himself open to attack(sun laser). and now you want to give him a trident? really guys, lets not try to twist the fight so namor stands a chance at winning more.
He uses his muscles, similar to Superman. You know that there isn't much difference between Namor's and Superman's strenght level? Only about 50,000/90, 000 tons, if that. And what if Namor makes his spinning quick enough so Storm can't change the direction in time? He basically gained enough speed to drill through that rock in moments. With his body moving with speeds of Mach 1 or better, I think he will escape that Tornado.
