Yoda versus Dumbledore (the Force versus Hogwarts magic)

Originally posted by quanchi112
We all know vader was greater than obi but obi still bested him.

We see in the film windu was on his level hell even better. We don't see yoda best dooku. We don't see yoda best palpatine so I have no idea where you are getting your information. The evidence suggests otherwise. I go by what I see. Yoda didn't beat anyone of note in the films.

You speculate sidious would win but that doesn't override the fact windu won.

Yes vader was greater than OIB wan I agree he was just arrogant and didn't play as smart as he should have. So the duel with dooku vs yoda was just what, a stalemate. That was a clear yod win with dooku fleeing having to distract him. Even with a huge amp dooku still couldn't defeat yoda. Dooku is on windus level as proved. No we don't see yoda best palpatine so they are equals with the exception of the force palpatine gains a slight edge. He beat dooku what did you see in AOTC.

Please. Dooku vs yoda. Yoda won. They fought again with dooku having an amp and yoda still won. This proves yoda is better than dooku. Windu is thought to be on dooku said level with dooku IMO being slightly better. Sidious went toe to toe in sabers and almost overwhelmed yoda in the force so this proves that on a. Normal day he'll take out windus anger Sidious is a greater duelist than Windu.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I've come to the conclusion that you know F all about Star wars or any combat really.

Let me own you yet again.

you claim Mace wouldn't be able to use Vaapad against Dooku because he's so calm and doesn't get angry. This is false and Mace could feed off of him. This is explicitly shown when Yoda outright says he sense the Darkside in him. His force lighting would again be Darkside energy. This is confirmed in the ROTS novelization describing the super conducting loop when Sids was firing lighting at mace and he was feeding off of it and sending it back at Palps. So you're totally wrong that Mace wouldn't be able to feed off of Dooku.

You keep saying Mace never bested Dooku in sparring. That isn't how things work. You should change your name to Logical Fallacy. Absence of proof isn't proof. They never once stated mace could never beat Dooku. That doesn't prove your case that he never beat him. The narration simply reads... The only person besides Yoda to best Mace in saber combat is Dooku. That statement doesn't mean Dooku always won, nor does it mean Mace never won. It simply means what it says, Dooku was able to beat him (maybe once, who knows) in saber combat. Nothing more.

Again, Sids was TWICE disarmed and overpowered in direct Saber combat by Yoda and Mace. They both punked him in direct saber combat. That's just the reality of what happened bud and you need to accept it and move on. Sids is simply not quite as good as Yoda or Mace in saber combat.

He did use a force push and Mace countered it... found Sids shaterpoint about the slippery floor and exploited it. End of story. But this scene ONLY REINFORCES in CLEAR PRESENTATION that Sids tried to kill Mace. Not only are we explicitly told this during Saber combat. We see it again when the novel outright STATES that Sids tried to push him out of the window and windu barely countered it before falling out. Answer me something Shoes, how do you throw a fight when you AGAIN (just like with sabers) try and push somebody out the window to their death. The novel explicitly states that is what he tried to do and windu was barely able to counter. This is mounds and mounds of proof on my side that Sids never threw the fight.

We see this explicitly stated again when Sids fires lighting at Mace and says no YOU WILL DIE.. DIEEEEEE. Yet another example of Lucas and Stover explicitly stating and REAFIRMING what they had said numerous times before.. Sids tried to kill mace and instead got beaten and overpowered. Game set match

As the comics are not cannon or not valid on this forum only the movie novelizations sometimes I actually do know about Star Wars and I don't watch boxing or wrestling.

I didn't say vaapad wouldn't work, it just won't be enough to be a game changer to where Windu wins 10/10 battles. If those two fight again then Windu would have to rely on the other styles because vaapad will not win him this match. He sensed the dark side in him this doesn't mean that he can just get the same amp that he got against Sidious or even a close enough amp to where it's a game changer. Dooku is a calm person and his styles shows this. Windu can take some energy but not enough to get an automatic win. So you believing that Windu can win with just vaapad is wrong. You may know about Star Wars but you take things out of proportion.

Again I didn't say mace couldn't beat dooku what do you think ?#/10 means. I'd say if the two fought who ever wins its going to be a 6-7/10 win for the victor. A slight majority as neither is just greatly more skilled than the other. The only supreme edge dooku has that Windu can't say anything about are there weapons. All else is close with slight victors. Windu has the physical edge but physicality nor the weapon grant either a significant unbeatable edge. I understand why you say Windu wims but I believe dooku wins. You believing Windu wims due to vaapad is wrong. Ok so with that that places dooku above Windu as if they only fought once and dooku won for that time yes dooku is superior. After years of making vaapad perfecting force powers and the other styles he brings so,etching better to dooku to challenge but nothing that grants him an unbeatable edge.

Ok. Something that never made it to the Big Screen or the Deleted Scenes or the Novelizations. It's in the script but if all you do is watch the movies you don't know. You don't know what happened to Sidious lightsbaer. There are different things that could have happened. I admit that yoda disarming him is possible however it is possible that since neither could overpower the other as scene in the movie they are even as in sabers. Let me ask you a question. If you believe Windu is a better duelist than Sidious. So someone who has 3x there normal power vs someone who uses there on power and is said to stalemate him. You believe Windu is better. If the two fought again Windu would not have the anger he had with in himself and with that Sidious is the superior duelist.

As of the novelization. As. Of the movie Sidious never used his force powers throughout the majority of the duel. Sidious could have killed him with his force powers any time he wanted. Also Lucas says he faked weakness and then with that the novel says that Sidious was bending his lightsaber and Windu was choking on ozone. This proves if he would have kept going he could have killed mace. Now if Lucas says that he faked weakness than why didn't he kept going and just take him out if he didn't throw the fight. He wanted anakin to kill him so he could turn him to the dark side. Dooku was a Sith Windu was not. So killing dooku showed him he was worthy and had the stomach to kill. Killing Windu sealed it. Also since you want to quote palpatine. Why did he shout out POWER UNLIMITED POWER if according to you he wasn't faking and was throwing the fight.

You need to stop. Stop thinking that whatever you say is the only thing that goes. George Lucas says more than just what you say. You need to have an open mind about what your opponent says. You need to accept others views. Work on that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
oh please I'm sure you copied my original stance on this topic from months ago.

Haha I like your new picture. Haha.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
As the comics are not cannon or not valid on this forum only the movie novelizations sometimes I actually do know about Star Wars and I don't watch boxing or wrestling.

I didn't say vaapad wouldn't work, it just won't be enough to be a game changer to where Windu wins 10/10 battles. If those two fight again then Windu would have to rely on the other styles because vaapad will not win him this match. He sensed the dark side in him this doesn't mean that he can just get the same amp that he got against Sidious or even a close enough amp to where it's a game changer. Dooku is a calm person and his styles shows this. Windu can take some energy but not enough to get an automatic win. So you believing that Windu can win with just vaapad is wrong. You may know about Star Wars but you take things out of proportion.

Again I didn't say mace couldn't beat dooku what do you think ?#/10 means. I'd say if the two fought who ever wins its going to be a 6-7/10 win for the victor. A slight majority as neither is just greatly more skilled than the other. The only supreme edge dooku has that Windu can't say anything about are there weapons. All else is close with slight victors. Windu has the physical edge but physicality nor the weapon grant either a significant unbeatable edge. I understand why you say Windu wims but I believe dooku wins. You believing Windu wims due to vaapad is wrong. Ok so with that that places dooku above Windu as if they only fought once and dooku won for that time yes dooku is superior. After years of making vaapad perfecting force powers and the other styles he brings so,etching better to dooku to challenge but nothing that grants him an unbeatable edge.

Ok. Something that never made it to the Big Screen or the Deleted Scenes or the Novelizations. It's in the script but if all you do is watch the movies you don't know. You don't know what happened to Sidious lightsbaer. There are different things that could have happened. I admit that yoda disarming him is possible however it is possible that since neither could overpower the other as scene in the movie they are even as in sabers. Let me ask you a question. If you believe Windu is a better duelist than Sidious. So someone who has 3x there normal power vs someone who uses there on power and is said to stalemate him. You believe Windu is better. If the two fought again Windu would not have the anger he had with in himself and with that Sidious is the superior duelist.

As of the novelization. As. Of the movie Sidious never used his force powers throughout the majority of the duel. Sidious could have killed him with his force powers any time he wanted. Also Lucas says he faked weakness and then with that the novel says that Sidious was bending his lightsaber and Windu was choking on ozone. This proves if he would have kept going he could have killed mace. Now if Lucas says that he faked weakness than why didn't he kept going and just take him out if he didn't throw the fight. He wanted anakin to kill him so he could turn him to the dark side. Dooku was a Sith Windu was not. So killing dooku showed him he was worthy and had the stomach to kill. Killing Windu sealed it. Also since you want to quote palpatine. Why did he shout out POWER UNLIMITED POWER if according to you he wasn't faking and was throwing the fight.

You need to stop. Stop thinking that whatever you say is the only thing that goes. George Lucas says more than just what you say. You need to have an open mind about what your opponent says. You need to accept others views. Work on that.

You’re not understanding something very basic here… he DID try force powers against mace and they failed. In fact, each and every time they faield to kill hiim, yet he was described as trying to do so in each instance.

Think about your stance, are you ACTUALLY claiming that Sids faked the whole saber fight… So all those saber strikes he was throwing weren’t actaully meant to kill himi? That is so illogical it’s not even funny. He literally just killed 3 acclaimed Jedi right before and caem at Windu with blurring speed to kill him. The novel straight out says he attacked windu trying to kill him. Not a SINGLE mention of throwing a fight. Maybe, just mabye, if they said nothing.. you could have a slight argument. Only they didn’t say nothing, they in fact said the exact oppostie of what you’re claiming numerous times.

So he tried to kill him via sabers and failed and got diarmed for his troubles. You say he didn’t try force powers, that is an absolute lie. He was using his force powers to amp his speed. Why would you amp your speed if you’re throwing a fight? Do you see how many things DIRECTLY and with NO ambiguity claim the exact opposite of him throwing a fight? They are numerous. Sids tried a force push to AGAIN try and kill Windu.. This is directly stated in the novel. Windu had to use a defensive force powers to prevent him from being flung out the windu.

Then after all that failed and he was diarmed.. Lucas commetns that he tried to KILL mace with his lighting. This is no ambiguity in that statement. Nor is there in the book. Very clear, and yet another example of them DIRECTLY stating he tried to kill mace. With no mentino, not one of him throwing a fight. Lucas even has Sids say NO!! you will DIE.. DIE!!! as he fires his lighting. Very clear and beyond any conjecture. That also didn’t work and he got disformed in the process. No, he didn’t look like that, yes he had a “mask” on and looked different anyways, but it disformed him more. Proving he was trying to kill himi. That failed and he was getting fried for his troubles.

Think about this… you’re saying he didn’t use his force powers when that is EXACTLY what he used. He used most every force power we generally see used… Speed boost… skills with a saber.. force push.. force lighting. They all failed. Period. and end of story. Yet you claim that all these times Lucas himself and has others say he tried to kill Mace is what? just a rouse to hide the alternative secret agenda they never bothered to mention that directly contradicts what they’ve said over and over? That makes logical sense to you? It doesn’t, and it’s painfully obvious.

I’ve stated numerous times, Sids was feigning that he was completely deprived of energy. He wasn’t. However, we can only speculate what would’ve happened had he continued. He was in bad shape and in a bad position. Nobody can say for certain. However, he only attempted that because he was vulnerable and disarmed. He always wanted to turn Anakin, but it didn’t need to be then. Yet when he had his back to the wall, being smart and creative he thought, well… it’s now or never. So he pretneded to be weaker than he was. That doesn’t’ change the fact that he tried to kill Mace previously and failed.

is any of this registering?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yes vader was greater than OIB wan I agree he was just arrogant and didn't play as smart as he should have. So the duel with dooku vs yoda was just what, a stalemate. That was a clear yod win with dooku fleeing having to distract him. Even with a huge amp dooku still couldn't defeat yoda. Dooku is on windus level as proved. No we don't see yoda best palpatine so they are equals with the exception of the force palpatine gains a slight edge. He beat dooku what did you see in AOTC.

Please. Dooku vs yoda. Yoda won. They fought again with dooku having an amp and yoda still won. This proves yoda is better than dooku. Windu is thought to be on dooku said level with dooku IMO being slightly better. Sidious went toe to toe in sabers and almost overwhelmed yoda in the force so this proves that on a. Normal day he'll take out windus anger Sidious is a greater duelist than Windu.

There is no need for abc logic when we see the fights play out. Yoda lost and windu beat palpatine.