Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes.In a weird twisted way, isn't that the purpose of religion anyway?
I also subscribe to atheism when it suits me as well.
Oh well, I will continue with my doubts and beliefs for both sides and just do without labels.
Religion is extremely self-serving. Religion in a human response to super-huamn issues. But, you have said that the Book of Mormon is the true, revised covenant between god and human-kind, so how does that at all represent a default to situation-serving atheism?
Originally posted by Devil King
Where do you hear me complaining?
In thread after thread after thread.
Originally posted by Devil King
Yet, I'm the only one you are addressing.
I was not addressing anyone. If I were only addressing you, I would PM you.
Last I checked this was an open forum. If you don't want people interjecting into your conversations, then I suggest you move them to PM's.
Originally posted by Devil King
But, you have said that the Book of Mormon is the true, revised covenant between god and human-kind, so how does that at all represent a default to situation-serving atheism?
I could be a douche bag and ask you to quote me on that, but I won't. 😉
The Book of Mormon is the word of God and it was translated by the great latter day prophet, seer, and revelator, Joseph Smith Jr...but sometimes I doubt if there is a God and, therefore, I feel that religion is a waste of time. That's how it works. It happens, or at least it should happen, to anyone who has to rely on faith.
I have a question for you...I was thinking about this earlier today when I was responding to inimilist in the homeschool thread....
Were you indoctrinated, or rather, did your teachers in private school force religion on you or at least tried to expose you to their ideals at any opportunity? No doubt that you received a great education. I am wondering because I hate it when people try to preach religion to me...I am sure you are the same way. Regardless, it was worth it to you, I am sure. (ya rich bastard 😛)
P.S.....if feels like I have asked you this before.
Originally posted by dadudemonya know its funny u mention preaching cause mormons are the preachiest people ever. im buyin a shotgun, and you may start to notice your converters dying off. ya know, just sayin
I could be a douche bag and ask you to quote me on that, but I won't. 😉The Book of Mormon is the word of God and it was translated by the great latter day prophet, seer, and revelator, Joseph Smith Jr...but sometimes I doubt if there is a God and, therefore, I feel that religion is a waste of time. That's how it works. It happens, or at least it should happen, to anyone who has to rely on faith.
I have a question for you...I was thinking about this earlier today when I was responding to inimilist in the homeschool thread....
Were you indoctrinated, or rather, did your teachers in private school force religion on you or at least tried to expose you to their ideals at any opportunity? No doubt that you received a great education. I am wondering because I hate it when people try to preach religion to me...I am sure you are the same way. Regardless, it was worth it to you, I am sure. (ya rich bastard 😛)
P.S.....if feels like I have asked you this before.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
In thread after thread after thread.I was not addressing anyone. If I were only addressing you, I would PM you.
Last I checked this was an open forum. If you don't want people interjecting into your conversations, then I suggest you move them to PM's.
Then I would ask why you only quote me when you post your accusations and rollyeyes smilies.
Originally posted by chickenlover98
ya know its funny u mention preaching cause mormons are the preachiest people ever. im buyin a shotgun, and you may start to notice your converters dying off. ya know, just sayin
Do you "hear" me preaching?
aaand don't go killing any Mormons: you will make them martyrs and that would convert more of 'em. 😉
Also, you may have a hard time killing the Mormons if they are wearing their magic underwear. 😆 😆 😆 (I thank Shaky for that one...good stuff.)
Originally posted by dadudemon
I could be a douche bag and ask you to quote me on that, but I won't. 😉The Book of Mormon is the word of God and it was translated by the great latter day prophet, seer, and revelator, Joseph Smith Jr...but sometimes I doubt if there is a God and, therefore, I feel that religion is a waste of time. That's how it works. It happens, or at least it should happen, to anyone who has to rely on faith.
I have a question for you...I was thinking about this earlier today when I was responding to inimilist in the homeschool thread....
Were you indoctrinated, or rather, did your teachers in private school force religion on you or at least tried to expose you to their ideals at any opportunity? No doubt that you received a great education. I am wondering because I hate it when people try to preach religion to me...I am sure you are the same way. Regardless, it was worth it to you, I am sure. (ya rich bastard 😛)
P.S.....if feels like I have asked you this before.
If I could remember which thread it was in, I would certainly post it. Perhaps it was the mormon thread or the 3;16/4;16 thread.
In your second statement, you said that a book serves as the word of God. The fact that you believe there is a book that lays out the word of any god denies you the anility to express the idea that you have atheist tendancies of any kind. I mean, I know you don't want to do the labels thing, but that's really just the only way to explain it.
When you hear the word "God" or the phrase "word of God", what do those terms mean to you? If you believe god is limited in any way, then he isn't much of a god and if his word isn't absolute and easily dismissed when it suits your purpose, then what is the purpose of considering it the word of a 2nd rate deity that isn't really God?
I went to a catholic high school. The first 2 years, we studied under a lay person who was a Catholic and explained the bible through his own interpretation and encouraged us to answer his questions from our own understanding. Then is was a half year studying under a nun on the subject of general catholic theology and the second half of the year was taught by the same nun who explained the catholic perspective on other religions. The fourth year was taught by a lay person who was catholic and taught the study of world religions, but always managed to work in her own catholic-bias when explaining other religions. Even the nun awarded credit for critical thinking. The senoir year teacher awarded no credit for thinking differently than she did, period. The hounour list students played the game and answered word for word as she stated in the class room, but I barely graduated from her class because she hated me for arguing with her in class and not writing down the answers she thought ran parallel to her perosnal beliefs, which she taught in the classroom as gospel truth.
So, I would consider that 3 years of non-indocrination teaching and 1 of total indoctrination. Catholic middle school was a different story. It was pretty much all indoctrination.
Originally posted by Devil King
Then I would ask why you only quote me when you post your accusations and rollyeyes smilies.
What I say to you is real and not some kind of manipulation. I look at the conversation, and put my 2 cents in. I quote a lot of people. I point things out that I believe to be wrong to whoever is making the claims. There is nothing personal on the open forum. This is a debate, and I agree with dadudemon on more things then I do with you. But that does not mean I single you out. Just ask JIA or Tim Rout. I relentlessly argue with them, but they are still my friends.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What I say to you is real and not some kind of manipulation. I look at the conversation, and put my 2 cents in. I quote a lot of people. I point things out that I believe to be wrong to whoever is making the claims. There is nothing personal on the open forum. This is a debate, and I agree with dadudemon on more things then I do with you. But that does not mean I single you out. Just ask JIA or Tim Rout. I relentlessly argue with them, but they are still my friends.
In your criticism of the combative aspects of my interaction with queeq you have quoted only me. Your entire post history is not in question, only that you have directly addressed only one of the two people involved in dispute. Quoting and directing your statements at only one of the people involved in a condemnation of actions is the definition of singling out an individual. That you agree more with them is fine, but if your comments were on-topic, you would address my on-topic statements; but you are not, you're addressing only the off-topic discourse. Manipulation is not an issue.
Originally posted by Devil King
In your criticism of the combative aspects of my interaction with queeq you have quoted only me. Your entire post history is not in question, only that you have directly addressed only one of the two people involved in dispute. Quoting and directing your statements at only one of the people involved in a condemnation of actions is the definition of singling out an individual. That you agree more with them is fine, but if your comments were on-topic, you would address my on-topic statements; but you are not, you're addressing only the off-topic discourse. Manipulation is not an issue.
So, I am only addressing the off-topic discourse. I'm glad to see you did get my point. I guess, I blame you for the off-topic discourse. It is just my opinion; I could be wrong.
[QUOTE=]Originally posted by chickenlover98
ya know its funny u mention preaching cause Mormons are the preachiest people ever. im buyin a shotgun, and you may start to notice your converters dying off. ya know, just sayin [/QUOTE] Not so sure about that one.
Ive had more Jehovah Witness's try to preach Gods word to me then Mormons.
Originally posted by Devil King
In your second statement, you said that a book serves as the word of God. The fact that you believe there is a book that lays out the word of any god denies you the anility to express the idea that you have atheist tendancies of any kind. I mean, I know you don't want to do the labels thing, but that's really just the only way to explain it.
oh no...man, you are right. I AM a Mormon. I will not deny that. When I said way back when that I was pretty damned close to being atheist...I meant that. Pretty much anything I do in my life, I do it from an atheistic perspective. I approach science almost always from an atheist perspective.(Is there a better way?) Money? The same. (And that is about a third of a person's life right there.) Conflict with others? Same. Introspection? Almost always atheistic. I even criticise my own Mormon beliefs from an atheistic perspective. What do I really do that is religious? Well, I go to church once a week, I say prayers with my son(indoctrination 😄), I read the word of God every now and then (2-5 times a week.), and I talk about religion almost always if it is brought up by another.(That last phrase was hard to make sense out of...bare with me.)
Originally posted by Devil King
When you hear the word "God" or the phrase "word of God", what do those terms mean to you?
Creator of the universe.
Originally posted by Devil King
If you believe god is limited in any way, then he isn't much of a god and if his word isn't absolute and easily dismissed when it suits your purpose, then what is the purpose of considering it the word of a 2nd rate deity that isn't really God?
I had this same exact argument with a Baptist minister. He argued that God could not do whatever he wanted. I argued that that was a backwards perspective. He said that God could not kill a righteous man if he promised him he could live. I told him that God CAN do whatever he wants and always does whatever he wants. I told the minister that the restriction was in his head and not in God's. God does NOT necessarily want to do all things that we humans do. To address your point, sure we can place human limitations on him with our logic an call his powers dammed. 👆 I don't see why not.
When I think of God as omnipotent...I don't think of it as most people....I think of it as a relative term to humanity. He is so much more powerful than we are that for all intents and almost all purposes, he is omnipotent. Omnipresent? No...why do we need the Holy Ghost if he has omnipresence?😉 Omniscient? Absolutely.
I don't feel that I properly addressed you comment. Please let me know if I have failed to do so.
Originally posted by Devil King
I went to a catholic high school. The first 2 years, we studied under a lay person who was a Catholic and explained the bible through his own interpretation and encouraged us to answer his questions from our own understanding. Then is was a half year studying under a nun on the subject of general catholic theology and the second half of the year was taught by the same nun who explained the catholic perspective on other religions. The fourth year was taught by a lay person who was catholic and taught the study of world religions, but always managed to work in her own catholic-bias when explaining other religions. Even the nun awarded credit for critical thinking. The senoir year teacher awarded no credit for thinking differently than she did, period. The hounour list students played the game and answered word for word as she stated in the class room, but I barely graduated from her class because she hated me for arguing with her in class and not writing down the answers she thought ran parallel to her perosnal beliefs, which she taught in the classroom as gospel truth.So, I would consider that 3 years of non-indocrination teaching and 1 of total indoctrination. Catholic middle school was a different story. It was pretty much all indoctrination.
Very interesting. I guess part of my curiosity stems from being too poor to be put in private school. Also, the honor student thing is pretty common, however, I suspect that it may be worse in a private school. Do you feel that you were at, even if slight, disadvantage because you didn't buy into the hocus pocus of religionism? From reading your post, it seems obvious that you were not in a fair situation, however, I know you are grateful for you education. (As it was probably better than the vast majority of the US.)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, I am only addressing the off-topic discourse. I'm glad to see you did get my point. I guess, I blame you for the off-topic discourse. It is just my opinion; I could be wrong.
Your opinion is not in question, your descision to only hold one party responsible is. This is represented by your choice to criticize only one of the parties involved.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Bad behavior does not justify bad behavior. You are a tremendous hypocrite.
I agree that bad behavior does not justify bad behavior, but telling someone that they are being disruptive, is a different kind of off-topic then attacking someone personally because of what they believe.
Originally posted by Devil King
Your opinion is not in question, your descision to only hold one party responsible is. This is represented by your choice to criticize only one of the parties involved.
That is your opinion. I am not a mod. I just want the conversation to move on. I am reading it, you know. I find some of the parts to be informative and entertaining, but then it gets bogged down.
Originally posted by dadudemon
oh no...man, you are right. I AM a Mormon. I will not deny that. When I said way back when that I was pretty damned close to being atheist...I meant that. Pretty much anything I do in my life, I do it from an atheistic perspective. I approach science almost always from an atheist perspective.(Is there a better way?) Money? The same. (And that is about a third of a person's life right there.) Conflict with others? Same. Introspection? Almost always atheistic. I even criticise my own Mormon beliefs from an atheistic perspective. What do I really do that is religious? Well, I go to church once a week, I say prayers with my son(indoctrination 😄), I read the word of God every now and then (2-5 times a week.), and I talk about religion almost always if it is brought up by another.(That last phrase was hard to make sense out of...bare with me.)Creator of the universe.
I had this same exact argument with a Baptist minister. He argued that God could not do whatever he wanted. I argued that that was a backwards perspective. He said that God could not kill a righteous man if he promised him he could live. I told him that God CAN do whatever he wants and always does whatever he wants. I told the minister that the restriction was in his head and not in God's. God does NOT necessarily want to do all things that we humans do. To address your point, sure we can place human limitations on him with our logic an call his powers dammed. 👆 I don't see why not.
When I think of God as omnipotent...I don't think of it as most people....I think of it as a relative term to humanity. He is so much more powerful than we are that for all intents and almost all purposes, he is omnipotent. Omnipresent? No...why do we need the Holy Ghost if he has omnipresence?😉 Omniscient? Absolutely.
I don't feel that I properly addressed you comment. Please let me know if I have failed to do so.
Very interesting. I guess part of my curiosity stems from being too poor to be put in private school. Also, the honor student thing is pretty common, however, I suspect that it may be worse in a private school. Do you feel that you were at, even if slight, disadvantage because you didn't buy into the hocus pocus of religionism? From reading your post, it seems obvious that you were not in a fair situation, however, I know you are grateful for you education. (As it was probably better than the vast majority of the US.)
Being a mormon isn't in question, being an atheist is. But your refusal to dismiss your self-identification with mormonism is the line you will not cross. Not only because of your refusal, but because you default to their teachings. Stating that you dismiss your religion when it comes to those things that religion condemns is not taking a little from column A and column B, much less is it logical to assume that one can arbitrairily turn off their religion simply because it runs contrary to their momentay goals. Money is widely criticized by Jesus. Introspection is derailed because religion expects you to default to it's teaching. Science doesn't attempt to explain away god, despite what many will claim.
Yes, there is a much better way to approach science: from a totally subjective perspective.
I'm not completely unawares that you can't be dim enough to ask what you do that is religious and then follow it up with multiple examples of how totally and consciously removed from the concept of atheism you truly are.
i do not think god does what he wants; god has no want.
as you once said to me, the definition of a word does not change simply because you say it does. Despite your accusation being wrong in regards to my statement at the time, the logic of your assumed accusation applies.
No, I don't think I was disadvantaged in my education. Like anyone, my education was what I made of it. According to the numbers, I might have been at a disadvantage in regards to the teacher my senior year, but she was not an unfair influence on my perspective, she only served to illustrate how biased she was, not a religion thata can be widely interpreted. She was just th one with the red pen in that specific situation.