EVANGEL94's Final Slugfest Tournament: Round 1-5; King Kandy vs id369

Originally posted by id369
At the end of the of issue 75 he activated his full power.

And BFR is a wasted move. Sure I cant remove you from the battlefield. But nothing implies I cant return to the battlefield. And Shaman X-Man is vary good at teleporting across realities.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Actually it's up to you to prove he CAN return, I don't need to prove a negative. Until you prove he can return from BFR, we assume he cannot.

Very good. But when he's in an unfamiliar dimension will he be able to just return home like that? Especially since he's bound by the crimson bands of Cytorrak which will prevent him from teleporting, and I could also "lock" the dimension and prevent him from leaving.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Very good. But when he's in an unfamiliar dimension will he be able to just return home like that? Especially since he's bound by the crimson bands of Cytorrak which will prevent him from teleporting, and I could also "lock" the dimension and prevent him from leaving.

He can effortlessly come back to the reality he just left. There is no point in locking up the dimension, since I use my own means to breach through dimensional barriers or the fabric of time/space that divides realities.

You need to actually locate me first, yet the bands of Cytorrack where bested by Namor, Hulk (IRRC), and recently a Skrull. I dare say Shaman X-Man alone could break free, let alone my current amalgam character.

I should be resting, to get ready for work. Mind you I only had 2 hrs of sleep.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't need to clock it because it's specified in the KMC RULES. If you really want, I could try and find that Thor scan where he outraces telepathy.

The rules specify speed of thought, clocked on human standards. There is no human with motor function skills capable of atomizing matter instantly. Let alone physcic energy waves being clocked.

And it serves no purpose to dodge them since it will eventually spread out and effect the entire arena. So you are arguing a moot point.

Besides, energy speed in comics differ from person to person.
In here Nate reacts, and out lashes Jean psi attack when Jean took the pre-emptive strike.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Anyway, my point wasn't that Jaf>Phoenix, my point was that she has low showings as well as high ones, and you only acknowledge the high ones.

Originally posted by id369
He can effortlessly come back to the reality he just left. There is no point in locking up the dimension, since I use my own means to breach through dimensional barriers or the fabric of time/space that divides realities.

Originally posted by id369
You need to actually locate me first, yet the bands of Cytorrack where bested by Namor, Hulk (IRRC), and recently a Skrull. I dare say Shaman X-Man alone could break free, let alone my current amalgam character.

So, here's what happens in our fight:

We both go to the battlefield, I locate you instantly with my Eye of Aggamoto, then watch for a second as what appears to me as a snail-speed TK wave starts emitting from your body.

So then I decide to bind you with the Crimson bands of Cytorrak, attack you with hundreds of Demons, blast you with concussion bolts, and throw you into another dimension when you're about 1/100th of the way done with your first attack. Then I lock the dimension just in case, and send in my demons to help keep you from escaping, and this WHOLE time you are still bound by the bands that will keep you from doing anything. And your attack has still not been completed.

Then I sit around having some fun, or maybe I place a handy little magic-bomb in the dimension that blows you to shit (also before the you are done with your first attack.)

And then if by some bizarre, universe shaking cosmic quirk, you escape, I just run up and gore you with my vibrating hand while your neurons are just beginning to transmit energy to your head, and maybe I also slam you against the forcefield at 100x lightspeed with the winds of watoomb and blow you to atoms. Or perhaps I will disintegrate you with my Eye of Aggamoto. This is all before you can do anything.

Originally posted by id369
I should be resting, to get ready for work. Mind you I only had 2 hrs of sleep.

Originally posted by id369
The rules specify speed of thought, clocked on human standards. There is no human with motor function skills capable of atomizing matter instantly. Let alone physcic energy waves being clocked.

And it serves no purpose to dodge them since it will eventually spread out and effect the entire arena. So you are arguing a moot point.

Originally posted by id369
True however, you are ideally picking low end feats and disregard specifics. At this time Nate himself is much more mature and skilled in wielding his powers; as to a Jean Grey who now functions properly and is more self aware of her actions as the Phoenix then her former self in the Phoenix Saga. And Jean at the moment was worn out and inexperienced. These specifics make all the difference.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Maybe that's why you're making such Strange claims.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Maybe that's why you're making such Strange claims.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Oh well, it won't make a difference since you aren't getting Phoenix's powers, as I have proven. No use trying to make a psychic link when there's nothing to link to.
[/B]

But nice try.

Originally posted by King Kandy
😕... That's kind of the REASON I would lock the dimension, to PREVENT you from leaving. You think i'm just doing it for the hell of it? What if I locked you in "the dimension of no return" (I think that's what it's called) from which it is impossible to escape?

I find it hard to believe, I wouldn’t. With my current power level and harnessing the Phoenix Omniscient. Since it carries cosmic knowledge from the beginning of time.

Any how to finish up, the way I see things.

The Rapture now harnesses Omniscience, and Psi Powers that rival the Phoenix Force.
Like I mentioned earlier, the isolated TK freeze was to be set off at the start of the match. And I am so far from slow. Those demons where nothing but footers, and are dispatched or left in suspended animation.

I also have gained TK Godhood. In short I am aware where you are, as if you where right in front of me.
Incidentally while you where taking things easily in your prep or strat thinking I was a light weight. I took things dead serious, and with you located and in a state of suspended animation. I attacked aggressively.

By the looks of it, my set up and set of actions caught you completely of gourd and favors my course of events.

As for some pending issues.
Telepathy: [ Mind Swipe ] - Though I am counting that my telepathy is backed up with much more, than all of the earth telepaths combined. [ Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix #4 ]
You remember reading this? Total hyperbole? I think not. Psionic backlash affected several key characters across the world (Pre Shaman Nate btw).

However like I stated, in am counting on that fact the Psi potential matches the Dark Phoenix. Which means potentially harnessing Universal level of TP.

And yet, the best Dr. Strange can refute is not falling Warlock seduction. Not a telepathic attack or mind control mind you. >_<

I could go on, but you have the first page to reference back (which goes in detail to explain and source all my claims).

Originally posted by id369
Completely disagree, the purpose is to establish a mind link. I have the vessel, I have her power, I have her memories, and I have her psi signature (and intimately know it). Nothing but a poor excuse to deduct my reasons, and explanations.

But nice try.

Nate in Jean's Body
Some wispy memories that probably don't involve Phoenix

You don't have her power, and you don't have her mind... the funny thing is that it's the amalgamation that PREVENTS this plan from working.

Originally posted by King Kandy
A mind link without a mind to link to... good luck with that one. What you have, is this:

Nate in Jean's Body
Some wispy memories that probably don't involve Phoenix

You don't have her power, and you don't have her mind... the funny thing is that it's the amalgamation that PREVENTS this plan from working.

All the recipes to cook up the plan is their. Only your strong denial, to prevent my ascendance starting from not acknowledge his full power, to claiming he could not unleash it. Its not up to me to make you believe, or more that you choose to ignore the abilities a high end TP has and can use to work with.

But alas one final piece of evidence that I don’t NEED Jeans mind just the psi signature to perform a mind link and reform your conscious. Previously in X-Men #126 Jean broke Xaver ENTIRE conscious (did I get that through), in millions of pieces across Earth. She had no mind to work with, only Cassandra Nova mind in Xavier body. She goes on to reclaim all those pieces and merges them back (lol look no conscious in the Xavier body, just Cassandra Nova OMFG!@#!#!).

Okay, so that is your perspective on the match. It's full of misconceptions and I will now point them out.

Originally posted by id369
To me it means, you open up a portal, send me their, and close it. In which case (like I stated earlier) I have my own means to escape.

Originally posted by id369
I find it hard to believe, I wouldn’t. With my current power level and harnessing the Phoenix Omniscient. Since it carries cosmic knowledge from the beginning of time.

Originally posted by id369
The Rapture now harnesses Omniscience, and Psi Powers that rival the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by id369
Like I mentioned earlier, the isolated TK freeze was to be set off at the start of the match. And I am so far from slow. Those demons where nothing but footers, and are dispatched or left in suspended animation.

Originally posted by id369
I also have gained TK Godhood. In short I am aware where you are, as if you where right in front of me.

Originally posted by id369
Incidentally while you where taking things easily in your prep or strat thinking I was a light weight. I took things dead serious, and with you located and in a state of suspended animation. I attacked aggressively.

Originally posted by id369
By the looks of it, my set up and set of actions caught you completely of gourd and favors my course of events.

Originally posted by id369
And yet, the best Dr. Strange can refute is not falling Warlock seduction. Not a telepathic attack or mind control mind you. >_<

In summary:

IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW POWERFUL HIS TELEPATHY IS, IT CANNOT HARM ME! It is too slow, and... it's TP. Boy, it's a good thing that I have the eye of Aggamoto that slices through TP like nothing, and speed that makes your psychic waves look like little snails.

That being said, this is in no way a concession that he will be achieving the sort of Phoenix level TP he is attributed with. No, for that to work several strange assumptions need to be bought into:

1. Nate can mind-link with Jean Grey even though her mind does not actually exist.
2. Mind linking with Jean Grey will give him omniscience even though she does not actually possess the phoenix.
3. Omniscience + Nate Grey = Phoenix.
4. He can achieve the Phoenix state even though he does not actually possess the Phoenix Force.

If ANY ONE of those claims is false, his plan simply does not work. Now, I don't think there's cause for anyone to believe that even ONE of those claims is true, let alone all four. Number one and two are particularly suspect.

Now, I have shown in recent posts that I have the following ways of defeating him (but am by no means limited to just those techniques listed.)

1. Disemboweling him with Zoom's Vibra-hand.
2. BFR into the dimension of no return.
3. Crimson Bands of Cytorrak for the ten-minute count.
4. Hordes of demons to rip him apart.
5. Magic Bomb ftw!
6. Disintegration with Eye of Aggamoto.
7. Blown to atoms by being smashed against forcefield with Winds of Watoomb.

Now, any one of these methods could probably give me the victory, but to be safe i'll try a bunch of them at once. I will probably start off with a combo of 2,3,4, and 5. Then 6 and 1 if those fail, and then 7 as a surefire last resort. But there's no reason to believe my initial attack will not curbstomp him. I can execute these attacks easily since my opponent is basically a statue compared to me, though it would not be any trouble to use the same attacks on an enemy with similar speed.

In summary, I have given numerous simple, foolproof ways to defeat my opponent, and my opponent has offered one long, complex, poorly supported plan that won't defeat me even if it works, because of the massive speed difference.

So question:

This match was started at 12 CST. Which would mean 12 CST tomorrow (1 EST) is the stopping time. But we have the time change tonight for daylight saving's, and thus lose an hour.

Does the match end at 12 CST or 1 because of this?

Originally posted by King Kandy

No, I mean I will seal the universe away, and prevent anyone from escaping like Dr. Strange once contemplated doing to the Beyonder (a few steps higher then Phoenix.)

Originally posted by King Kandy

You've never supported you getting omniscience, your plan for getting it involved mind-linking with a mind that doesn't actually exist. You basically tried to read the mind of a rock.

And the so called tried to read the mind of a rock. It worked in New X-Men 126, when Xavier no longer had his memories in his body. And yet Jean proceeded to merge them back from millions of pieces. I think you need to get smart, and read more about how telepathy works on the higher orders.

Originally posted by King Kandy

No omniscience, and Nate only rivaled a host and not the force itself. But he's not going to be able to use that power anyway.

Originally posted by King Kandy

The "Isolated TK Freeze" may be fast to you, but to me it moves at a plodding 30 m/s, from my perspective I could go and take a one day vacation, come back and the attack still would not have engulfed the asteroid. You are far from slow (30 m/s is pretty fast) but it's just not up there with the Flashes and Zoom.

Originally posted by King Kandy

You cannot get TK godhood without the Phoenix state, and you have shown shit-all in the way of proof that your ill-conceived mind link to nowhere will work. But the really hilarious part is that your TK Godhood, if it worked, would only allow you to sense things you've controlled with your TK... and guess what? Your TK will affect me at 30 m/s.

We are on the Astroid M. Nate TK crushes entire Cities with a thumbs down.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Took things easily? Did you read my posts? I have over the course of the battle offered about ten ways of defeating you, all used at once even though any individual one could get me the victory.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Are you freaking kidding me?! I knew that I was at no risk from the moment you chose your characters. If there's one thing Dr. Strange/Zoom can defeat without effort, it's TP. The Eye of Aggamoto combined with my speed will enable me to nullify any TP/TK attack you could possibly conceive of. If anything, YOU failed to account for just how much faster I am then you.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Eh? Warlock was playing tricks on Strange's mind, and Strange saw through them in less then a page. He fought off the IG's telepathy in less then a page (with assistance from his Eye of Aggamoto.)

Like I stated:
I have effectively unleashed Nates Full potential.
I am by no means slow at all, if you think my perception/action of light speed is slow.
And the Psi is stated to rival the Dark Phoenix, a cosmic entity who has shown universal telepathy.

At the start of the match, I set forth to isolate enemy movements. And set them in suspended animation
I unleashed an omni-directional bombardment of TK, Psi, and TP.
BFR - is not an options since I teleport from reality to reality, let alone the fact that I can shatter dimensional barriers.

No effort was placed to find me, it is now being set forth as a contingency or a follow up plan.
And I have a series of defenses, to protect myself.

Like I stated earlier, if you have vast TK powers. You can obtain TK Godhood with out, being involved with the Phoenix.

Nate was aware of the psi inhibitors the moment he came into mansion with out applying telepathy. And he effectively dismantles them, in the processes. This is because when you vastly expand you control and power over TK. It also happens to expand your senses.

Need more proof that he can expand the senses through TK? This nun plucked out her eye sockets, yet she is able to “SEE”, thanks to Nate. And no he is not apply telepathy as the nun ask’s and Nate calmly replies.

Voting for id369

I didn't buy Kandy's claim that psi powers move at 30m/s (but, not being a participant, I won't say why). I think id's amalgam is not an unreasonable creation even if it might be a stretch and I think given time, which he would seem to have, it can take out Kandy's.

Great fight and brilliant work by both of you. This was a tough pick.

Good fight gents.

I never bought id's premise, and Speed Limit will be too hard to touch and can react with any of Strange's spells almost instantaneously. id doesn't have Pheonix-Jean, but presumably would "heal" her into having it with Nate's tp. But to do that multiversal-level feat by combining parts of the pheonix consciousness, he'd need to unlock the potential that he says he'll only have once he has the pheonix might bolstering his powers.

The fact that he doesn't have Jean's mind is also problematic, because if he can piece together Jean's pheonix-consciousness without her mind, the implication is that just Nate, sans any sort of body switch or upgrade, could do it himself...quite a stretch. The psychometry tried to make up for it, but it's still grasping in eh dark at multiversal strands of consciousness.

The 30 meters per second was amusing, but a moot point imo. I admire Kandy for using the forum rules thing, but it's clear that to do some of the things Nate (or any telepath) has done, thought would need to travel far faster. Scans > rules, since it's just a guidepost for reference.

Also, there was an over-reliance for id on scans saying what Nate is capable of, but hasn't actually done. "This should extinguish stars!"...then we'd have a scan of Cable attacking that concert hall thing Austrailia. That's only 1 example among at least 3-4.

Voting for Kandy.

Okay id I am sick of you claiming that I have never tried to locate you. I have pointed out how I locate you in EVERY summary post i've ever made. I didn't need to elaborate because you never once offered a defense against it.

At the start of the fight, I locate you with the eye of Aggamoto, which will melt through all your illusions and the like. You have no way of hiding from it. Don't need to elaborate beyond that because that's just how simple it is.

Voting for Kandy I just don't think Id39's team could handle speed limits speed

Who was the mind in Kandy's amalgam?