Brain dead man recovers, doctors stumped...

Started by Robtard10 pages
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
😆 I knew you would go there. So tell me, reverend, what are your thoughts on why God "allows" war, AIDS and poverty? hmm? Why has he "allowed" the world HE created to go to shit?

My personal beliefs: I don't think God is the "all watchful and caring guy in the sky".

I do believe in God though, as a beginning to everything, I just don't think God keeping tabs on us.

Edit: In other words, I belive the Bible and every other religious text was written/dictated by man.

What's your excuse?

Some people want supernatural help in their lives, and they will seek it out anywhere.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Good question. However, it leads to a conclusion that I think you would not like.
Try me.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Try me.

We are on our own.

Originally posted by Robtard
My personal beliefs: I don't think God is the "all watchful and caring guy in the sky".

I do believe in God though, as a beginning to everything, I just don't think God keeping tabs on us.

Edit: In other words, I belive the Bible and every other religious text was written/dictated by man.

What's your excuse?

Sounds like Albert Einstein's view on god.

Einstein believed in a god that doesn't interact with humans, doesn't interfere with human affairs, doesn't answer prayers, and doesn't take sides during wars.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Sounds like Albert Einstein's view on god.

Einstein believed in a god that doesn't interact with humans, doesn't interfere with human affairs, doesn't answer prayers, and doesn't take sides during wars.


He also didn't believe in an individual god.

Re: Brain dead man recovers, doctors stumped...

Originally posted by sithsaber408
By Mike Celizic
TODAYShow.com contributor
updated 7:23 a.m. PT, Mon., March. 24, 2008

Zack Dunlap doesn’t remember much from the day he died, but he does remember hearing a doctor declare him brain-dead. And he remembers being incredibly ticked off.

“I’m glad I couldn’t get up and do what I wanted to do,” the strapping Oklahoman said in a soft drawl in an exclusive appearance on Monday on TODAY in New York.

And what would he have done, asked TODAY’s Natalie Morales, who has followed Dunlap’s miraculous recovery from a Nov. 17 ATV accident that left him with a catastrophic head injury.

“Probably would have been a broken window they went out,” the 21-year-old said with a hint of a smile.

He’s been through months of rehab, and he’s getting better, but he still has issues with memory and emotional issues.

“I feel pretty good, but this is hard,” he said of all the excitement of being in New York and on national television. He is getting better, he agreed, but said the process is frustrating.

“I just ain’t got the patience,” he said quietly.

He was accompanied by his parents, Pam and Doug Dunlap, and his younger sister, Kacy, who are more than happy to wait while he recovers.

“He’s been doing amazingly well,” Pam Dunlap said. “He does still have a lot of memory issues. It just takes a long time for the brain to heal after such a traumatic injury. It may take a year or more before he completely recovers. But that’s OK. It doesn’t matter how long it takes. We’re just thankful and blessed that we have him here.”

‘There was no activity’

Doctors have no explanation for why Dunlap is alive.

He had been riding his souped-up ATV with some friends on that fateful Saturday, less than a week before Thanksgiving. They had participated in a parade that morning, popping wheelies and impressing the crowd, and then they had gone out riding on their machines. He did not wear a helmet.

Dunlap fell behind his friends on a highway just outside of Davidson, Okla., not far from his home in the ranching town of Frederick and near the Texas border. He gunned his machine to catch up, doing another wheelie on the back wheels. When he dropped the front wheels back to the pavement, he saw that he was going to crash into a friend’s machine that had stopped a short way up the road.

Dunlap tried to swerve, but flipped his machine and went flying, smashing headfirst and facedown on the asphalt. He remained there motionless, unresponsive to his friends, who quickly called 911.

Taken first to a local hospital, he was airlifted 50 miles away to United Regional Healthcare System in Wichita Falls, Texas, where there was a trauma unit that might be able to treat the severe damage he had done to his brain.

But 36 hours after the accident, doctors performed a PET scan of his brain and informed his parents, along with other family members who had gathered to keep vigil at the hospital, that there was no blood flowing to Zack’s brain; he was brain-dead.

Doctors showed the scan to Zack’s parents, and, Doug Dunlap told Morales, “There was no activity at all. No blood flow at all.”

‘They said he was brain-dead’

The devastated parents were faced with the horrible decision of either keeping their son hooked up to life-support equipment or pulling the plug and letting his body follow his brain into death.

“We didn’t want him as a vegetable,” Doug Dunlap said. “We didn’t know what he was going to be like. They said he was brain-dead and there would be no life, so we were preparing ourselves.”

Zack had declared on his driver’s license that he wanted to be an organ donor, so his parents gave permission for doctors to keep his body alive until the organs could be harvested.

“Zack has always been a giver. He always wanted to make sure everybody had things going their way,” Doug Dunlap continued. “He didn’t want to give up, and we didn’t want his organs to give up, either. And he didn’t, either.”

The decision made, there remained only a wait of several hours while an organ-harvesting team flew in by helicopter. The family spent the time saying goodbye.

During her time with him, Zack’s grandmother, Naomi, prayed. Her request was straightforward — “just a miracle,” she told Morales. “He was too young for God to take him.”

Some four hours after doctors declared Zack dead, a nurse began to remove tubes from Dunlap. His cousins, Dan and Christy Coffin, both of whom are nurses, were also in the room. Something about Zack’s appearance made them think that he wasn’t as dead as the doctors said.

On a hunch, Dan pulled out his bone-handled pocket knife and ran the blade up the sole of one of Zack’s feet.

‘Our son is still alive!’

The foot yanked away, but the other nurse said it was a reflex action.

So Dan Coffin then dug a fingernail under one of Zack’s nails. Zack yanked his arm away and across his body, and that, the other nurse agreed, wasn’t a reflex action. It was a sign of life.

“We went from the lowest possible moment to, ‘Oh, my gosh, our son is still alive!’ ” said his mother. “That was the most miraculous feeling. We had gone from the lowest possible emotion that a parent could feel to the top of the mountains again. We were still very guarded, because we weren’t sure what his prognosis would be, but just to hear the words that he was back with us is something we’ll remember forever.”

Doctors warned the family that Zack could have profound brain damage that would prevent his leading anything resembling an active life. But within five days he opened his eyes, and 48 days after the accident, he walked out of a rehab center and returned home, where the entire town gave him a hero’s welcome.

He’s working to regain his memories and to control his emotions, and he’d like to go back to his job as a warehouse worker. He also wants to get his driver’s license back.

“I’ve been wanting to drive [from] about the day I was back from rehab,” he said.

At Morales’ request, Zack reached in the pocket of his jeans and pulled out the pocket knife his cousin had used to prove he was still alive. Dan Coffin had given it to him as a gift and a memento.

“It makes me thankful that they didn’t give up,” Zack said, turning the knife over in his hand. “Don’t let the good die young.”

Link: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23775873/?GT1=43001

Obviously I italicized the part about the grandma, and for good reason. How many times is it gonna be "just a coincidence" when people are healed, brought back from the dead, and other miraculous things happening that doctors can't explain?

(see my testimony thread in the religion forum for the story of little 2 year old Jesse, who fell from a 2nd story balcony, had a ruptured spleen and internal bleeding, and was taken by helicopter from Roseville Sutter Hopsital to UC Davis Medical Center, and as his grandmother prayed during the flight, the child was healed completely and no tear on the spleen, nor internal bleeding.)

I find it interesting, when in the regular news there are so many occurrences that point straight to God... that people can continue to turn a blind eye and call it "coincidence, phenomena, etc.." when even the best professionals in the field can't explain it.

And every time? Somebody praying for that healing, praying for that miracle. When does the law of averages step in and say that these people praying are obviously tapped in to something because the prayers are being answered?

Mmm... I smell an X-File...

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Hey, I am only going with what I have been told by some of the atheists I have spoken to. Some of them actually do blame God when something goes wrong, or, more likely, says some shit like "Where was God when this happened" just to get their point across. Its not my fault the ones I have spoken to are idiots.

No, but it's your fault for believing that a case study acts as a representative sample, then perpetuating the false (and offensive) stereotype.

Also, someone bothered to call atheists f*gs (Zeal). Um...ok. Reported for bashing.

😬

Re: Re: Brain dead man recovers, doctors stumped...

Originally posted by Grinning Goku
Mmm... I smell an X-File...

not X-Files....

He has Claire's ability.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
No, but it's your fault for believing that a case study acts as a representative sample, then perpetuating the false (and offensive) stereotype.

Also, someone bothered to call atheists f*gs (Zeal). Um...ok. Reported for bashing.

😬

It was a bit over the top....wasn't it? I'm surpised he hasn't earned a perma ban yet.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
By Mike Celizic
TODAYShow.com contributor
updated 7:23 a.m. PT, Mon., March. 24, 2008

Zack Dunlap doesn’t remember much from the day he died, but he does remember hearing a doctor declare him brain-dead. And he remembers being incredibly ticked off.

“I’m glad I couldn’t get up and do what I wanted to do,” the strapping Oklahoman said in a soft drawl in an exclusive appearance on Monday on TODAY in New York.

And what would he have done, asked TODAY’s Natalie Morales, who has followed Dunlap’s miraculous recovery from a Nov. 17 ATV accident that left him with a catastrophic head injury.

“Probably would have been a broken window they went out,” the 21-year-old said with a hint of a smile.

He’s been through months of rehab, and he’s getting better, but he still has issues with memory and emotional issues.

“I feel pretty good, but this is hard,” he said of all the excitement of being in New York and on national television. He is getting better, he agreed, but said the process is frustrating.

“I just ain’t got the patience,” he said quietly.

He was accompanied by his parents, Pam and Doug Dunlap, and his younger sister, Kacy, who are more than happy to wait while he recovers.

“He’s been doing amazingly well,” Pam Dunlap said. “He does still have a lot of memory issues. It just takes a long time for the brain to heal after such a traumatic injury. It may take a year or more before he completely recovers. But that’s OK. It doesn’t matter how long it takes. We’re just thankful and blessed that we have him here.”

‘There was no activity’

Doctors have no explanation for why Dunlap is alive.

He had been riding his souped-up ATV with some friends on that fateful Saturday, less than a week before Thanksgiving. They had participated in a parade that morning, popping wheelies and impressing the crowd, and then they had gone out riding on their machines. He did not wear a helmet.

Dunlap fell behind his friends on a highway just outside of Davidson, Okla., not far from his home in the ranching town of Frederick and near the Texas border. He gunned his machine to catch up, doing another wheelie on the back wheels. When he dropped the front wheels back to the pavement, he saw that he was going to crash into a friend’s machine that had stopped a short way up the road.

Dunlap tried to swerve, but flipped his machine and went flying, smashing headfirst and facedown on the asphalt. He remained there motionless, unresponsive to his friends, who quickly called 911.

Taken first to a local hospital, he was airlifted 50 miles away to United Regional Healthcare System in Wichita Falls, Texas, where there was a trauma unit that might be able to treat the severe damage he had done to his brain.

But 36 hours after the accident, doctors performed a PET scan of his brain and informed his parents, along with other family members who had gathered to keep vigil at the hospital, that there was no blood flowing to Zack’s brain; he was brain-dead.

Doctors showed the scan to Zack’s parents, and, Doug Dunlap told Morales, “There was no activity at all. No blood flow at all.”

‘They said he was brain-dead’

The devastated parents were faced with the horrible decision of either keeping their son hooked up to life-support equipment or pulling the plug and letting his body follow his brain into death.

“We didn’t want him as a vegetable,” Doug Dunlap said. “We didn’t know what he was going to be like. They said he was brain-dead and there would be no life, so we were preparing ourselves.”

Zack had declared on his driver’s license that he wanted to be an organ donor, so his parents gave permission for doctors to keep his body alive until the organs could be harvested.

“Zack has always been a giver. He always wanted to make sure everybody had things going their way,” Doug Dunlap continued. “He didn’t want to give up, and we didn’t want his organs to give up, either. And he didn’t, either.”

The decision made, there remained only a wait of several hours while an organ-harvesting team flew in by helicopter. The family spent the time saying goodbye.

During her time with him, Zack’s grandmother, Naomi, prayed. Her request was straightforward — “just a miracle,” she told Morales. “He was too young for God to take him.”

Some four hours after doctors declared Zack dead, a nurse began to remove tubes from Dunlap. His cousins, Dan and Christy Coffin, both of whom are nurses, were also in the room. Something about Zack’s appearance made them think that he wasn’t as dead as the doctors said.

On a hunch, Dan pulled out his bone-handled pocket knife and ran the blade up the sole of one of Zack’s feet.

‘Our son is still alive!’

The foot yanked away, but the other nurse said it was a reflex action.

So Dan Coffin then dug a fingernail under one of Zack’s nails. Zack yanked his arm away and across his body, and that, the other nurse agreed, wasn’t a reflex action. It was a sign of life.

“We went from the lowest possible moment to, ‘Oh, my gosh, our son is still alive!’ ” said his mother. “That was the most miraculous feeling. We had gone from the lowest possible emotion that a parent could feel to the top of the mountains again. We were still very guarded, because we weren’t sure what his prognosis would be, but just to hear the words that he was back with us is something we’ll remember forever.”

Doctors warned the family that Zack could have profound brain damage that would prevent his leading anything resembling an active life. But within five days he opened his eyes, and 48 days after the accident, he walked out of a rehab center and returned home, where the entire town gave him a hero’s welcome.

He’s working to regain his memories and to control his emotions, and he’d like to go back to his job as a warehouse worker. He also wants to get his driver’s license back.

“I’ve been wanting to drive [from] about the day I was back from rehab,” he said.

At Morales’ request, Zack reached in the pocket of his jeans and pulled out the pocket knife his cousin had used to prove he was still alive. Dan Coffin had given it to him as a gift and a memento.

“It makes me thankful that they didn’t give up,” Zack said, turning the knife over in his hand. “Don’t let the good die young.”

Link: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23775873/?GT1=43001

Obviously I italicized the part about the grandma, and for good reason. How many times is it gonna be "just a coincidence" when people are healed, brought back from the dead, and other miraculous things happening that doctors can't explain?

(see my testimony thread in the religion forum for the story of little 2 year old Jesse, who fell from a 2nd story balcony, had a ruptured spleen and internal bleeding, and was taken by helicopter from Roseville Sutter Hopsital to UC Davis Medical Center, and as his grandmother prayed during the flight, the child was healed completely and no tear on the spleen, nor internal bleeding.)

I find it interesting, when in the regular news there are so many occurrences that point straight to God... that people can continue to turn a blind eye and call it "coincidence, phenomena, etc.." when even the best professionals in the field can't explain it.

And every time? Somebody praying for that healing, praying for that miracle. When does the law of averages step in and say that these people praying are obviously tapped in to something because the prayers are being answered?

I find it interesting, unnecessary comma, that when I saw yuo wrote this thread I thought, "some more god shit" and I was right!

Well, no more threads from me.

I'm gonna say this though: God doesn't cause pain and hurt and death. That's in response to all of the: "Why does God allow bad stuff, then?" questions.

It's a result of our own sinful nature in the world, and the direct work of demons. Yup, hoogety boogetys. Not kiddin' either.

God is good, devil bad.

"The enemy comes to kill, steal, and destroy. But I came that you may have life, and live life abundantly."

We're in New Testament living now, New covenant.

People put alot of stuff on God that He doesn't do. He allows us to go our own way, and if we're not with Him, not under cover, then we're out there in the devil's world. And he'll jack you up.

Those that are saved, are praying, and prayers are answered all the time.

Missed diagnosis or not, the boy was called brain dead, and less than a few hours from being killed by having his organs harvested. Grandma prayed, and lo and behold, the nurses "on a hunch" decide to run a knife on his heel. With no reason to, with a conclusive PET run already, they just got the instinct, or urge to do it.

That's God at work to me.

And it happens all the time, in plenty of situations. (some of which I've described in this and other threads.)

But it's always blown off as "coincidence" of a false diagnosis or whatever. The family member or friend that prays for the healing just happened to be there when what they just happened to be praying for happens.

Ok, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Personally, I sleep better knowing that I pray effective prayers that the living God hears.

And apparently some others in the news feel that way too.

If you cannot see the simple logic that says that the fact that there are many, MANY times people have uttered simiular prayers and come unanswered means that your basic supposition is flawed says little for you.

Also if you cannot see that the simplest and most straightforward answer is a misdiagnosis then that is simply the atittude of a fool.

Human error before miracles, I am afraid.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

It's a result of our own sinful nature in the world, and the direct work of demons. Yup, hoogety boogetys. Not kiddin' either.

Just to be sure. Who created sin, demons and the devil again?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Just to be sure. Who created sin, demons and the devil again?

God created sin. 😐

There are cases in which people are pinned between life and death. Some live others just don't....how did they survive? Who knows.....they are indeed mysteries in our world.

Also, I have a problem with the misdiagnosis comments. How can something as severe and deadly as brain damage could be misdiagnose? Having heart burn and thinking it's a heart attack is self diagnose. A doctor performing X-rays and a MRI and blood samples is a diagnosis....

Whatever happen to this guy...I'm sure his family is very thankful for it.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
There are cases in which people are pinned between life and death. Some live others just don't....how did they survive? Who knows.....they are indeed mysteries in our world.

Also, I have a problem with the misdiagnosis comments. How can something as severe and deadly as brain damage could be misdiagnose? Having heart burn and thinking it's a heart attack is self diagnose. A doctor performing X-rays and a MRI and blood samples is a diagnosis....

Whatever happen to this guy...I'm sure his family is very thankful for it.

If a diagnosis is wrong it is called a misdiagnosis.

Originally posted by Bardock42
If a diagnosis is wrong it is called a misdiagnosis.

Thank you Dr. Bardock42.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Thank you Dr. Bardock42.
Welcome.

They didn't diagnose brain damage, they said brain damage after such a thing was very likely. Note likely, not inevitable.

Misdiagnosis that he was brain dead is not only possible but... evidently 100% so in this situation.

And it's not even that fair to call it human error because the fact remains that we are still not scientifically sure what the literal point of death is, we can only make informed guesses. That's why it is not always right.

But a hundred years ago, with much less sensitive instruments, we were even less right. Plenty of people would have been called dead then which we wouldn't diagnose so now. Some of those people would have got up and walked away after being prayed for.

By sithsaber's logic, they would have all been miracles and put down to God. But if the same cases had happened today they simply would not have been called dead in the first place- so no miracle, no God held responsible. The only difference? Our ability to diagnose. This clearly marks out sithsaber's logic as preposterous.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if heaven is going to be full of people like sithsaber and JIA - I'll opt for going to hell.