Originally posted by Ivalice
This is where you will have to prove up that malaks armor is saber resistant, Find an actual statement other than your own assumptions and speculations because i can simply argue that he was wounded but chose to engage bastila in a fight.
It is 100% clear from the cutscene in the KOTOR that the Bastilla's Light Saber got deflected by Malak's armor actually.
Now what do you think would have happened, if the Light Saber had penetrated Malak's armor? Would he be still active enough to charge towards Bastilla Shan?
From the G-canon sources, it is already clear that even a single cut from the Light Saber can immobilize a Jedi. Consider AOTC movie as an example.
Originally posted by Ivalice
Ok, so was vader who demonstrated incredible saber feats such as slaughtering an entire platoon of storm troopers who turned on him right before the officer in charge could even run to the door.And using the force to do telekenetical lightsaber combat when he killed 6 storm troopers with one swipe of his lightsaber.
And this quote here from wookiepedia(which is backed up by shadows of the empire)
Around 3.5 ABY, Vader had ordered ASP-19 droids, lightsaber combat droids based on the ASP-series droid, to be produced to fight him in sparring matches. They were faster and stronger than an ordinary man, and programmed with the knowledge of a hundred sword masters and a dozen fighting styles. Vader defeated them time and again, and thus ordered new, improved batches of them. As his finesse improved, they became too easy to defeat, even in a two-on-one match.
And Malak is also capable of using the force to perform telekinetical strikes with his Light Saber. He has demonstrated this ability in a cutscene of the KOTOR, killing a Jedi in the process.
And not to forget that his Light Saber is bigger than the standard ones, which is also an advantage.
Originally posted by Ivalice
So? Force attacks work on any one, even the strongest force users if you don't even attempt to resist or put up a defence.Ok, lets put it that malak can trap vader in his whirlwind, but what is there to say that vader can't unleash an even more devastating attack on malak? Such as a force wave which can send an opponent flying back so fast that the moment the thug crashed the wall, it would be safe to assume it breaks every bone in his body(Empire betrayals
And unlike that thug, Malak is a powerful Force user, who can defend himself against several kinds of Force attacks.
Originally posted by Ivalice
Onasi is a non force user, bastila is a weakling when compared to malak or vader and revan, well thats the only feat i give credit to malak.
Bastilla Shan might not be among the elite, but she was still among the best of her age. I have yet to see a single source, in which it has been stated that Bastilla Shan was not a capable fighter.
And add Revan in to the equation, you get 3 vs 1 scenario, which is unfair in logical sense, but Malak still won without the aid of any external help.
Originally posted by Ivalice
Nobody is denying that malak is a very good warrior but you have to acknowledge the fact that vader is also a very capable warrior and perhaps even greater than malak.
Originally posted by Ivalice
While being empowered by the star forge? Vader was shown to suspend 10 wild dogs half his size in the air and instantly break all their necks without any effort.
You want to see an example of Star Forge directly empowering a Sith? Than keep in mind, the Bastilla Shan vs Revan encounter on the Star Forge.
Originally posted by Ivalice
Also vader has choked xizor millions of lightyears in the bounty hunter wars but failed because emperor palpatine had stopped him from doing so.And there is another feat of vader where he could send his opponent(tark) into the air with TK smashing him hard enough in the star destroyer interior until it causes a massive dent
Or vader catching a bolt fired by a storm trooper and channels raw force energy into it and sends it flying back at the stormtrooper with enough force and power to completely rip his head off.
Originally posted by Ivalice
Ok, as for lightning vader has a lightsaber, as for force drain there is no proof that it would even kill him instantly or harm him as malak only demonstrated it on captive jedi which were in stasis while being empowered by the starforge.
And Light Saber is not always useful for blocking very powerful Force Lightning attacks.
Originally posted by Ivalice
And any jedi are vulnerable to tk based attacks, even malak would be vulnerable to vaders superior TK.
And my conclusion is that both these Sith Lords are a big threat to each other.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDUh you do know the lightsaber that malak hurled at a jedi in the starforge? Did that jedi appear to have been wounded as well? Does that mean his robes are saber resistant too? How come i don't see him being decapitated?
And the wounded Malak easily tooled Bastilla Shan?It is 100% clear from the cutscene in the KOTOR that the Bastilla's Light Saber got deflected by Malak's armor actually.
Again you must also consider the fact that games back then are not as detailed as todays DX10 games. What i'm saying is that the game itself is not advance to a point where it would show small details like cuts or wounds so weather or not malaks armour really IS lightsaber resistant has yet to be stated by any other out of universe external sources.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDVader had his arm hacked of and yet he still could pick up a lightsaber to attempt to kill the 3 remaining jedi. What would have happened? That he would have gotten wounded? Whats there to say bastila threw her lightsaber with enough force to even decapitate her opponent?
Now what do you think would have happened, if the Light Saber had penetrated Malak's armor? Would he be still active enough to charge towards Bastilla Shan?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDSee the above.
From the G-canon sources, it is already clear that even a single cut from the Light Saber can immobilize a Jedi. Consider AOTC movie as an example.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDBut to an extent where it seemingly creates a shield around you which killed a a group of storm troopers with one hit?And Malak is also capable of using the force to perform telekinetical strikes with his Light Saber. He has demonstrated this ability in a cutscene of the KOTOR, killing a Jedi in the process.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDSo?
And not to forget that his Light Saber is bigger than the standard ones, which is also an advantage.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDSo can vader for that matter.
And unlike that thug, Malak is a powerful Force user, who can defend himself against several kinds of Force attacks.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDWow malak deflected onai's shots then stuns him, that means he is a super warrior. I guess vader is god that he could deflect dozens of blaster fire while at the same time using TK to bend and alter their direction, catch a bolt ,turn it into raw energy and sent it flying back at the stormtrooper with enough force to completely rip his head off. Thats far more impressive than malak deflecting onasi bolts.
Onasi relies on guns to fight his enemies and his skills as a soldier are exceptional. He managed to fire on Malak within a couple of seconds with both of his guns, which is impressive. But Malak was so skilled that he easily deflected his fire from his Light Saber and Force stunned him, within 3 seconds.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDOk.
Bastilla Shan might not be among the elite, but she was still among the best of her age. I have yet to see a single source, in which it has been stated that Bastilla Shan was not a capable fighter.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYet he lost despite being empowered later on by the SF. Maybe theres also the possibilities that revan couldn't come to accept his true identidy and was at great grief which could have effected his performance tremendously.
And add Revan in to the equation, you get 3 vs 1 scenario, which is unfair in logical sense, but Malak still won without the aid of any external help.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDI would say most, such as showing incredible force mastery by ripping out entire bridges and using it as missles or choking an opponent millions of lightyears away.
Greater than Malak in some regards is more correct term. A Sith Lord, who is capable of unleashing powerful force attacks and control a huge artifact like Star Forge, cannot be any less of a warrior than Vader.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDUh the starforge was amplifying his powers all along as vjun did to dooku.
What empowerment do you speak of? I have told you before that it was only in the final battle, that he used the Star Forge for aid. Before that, there was no such external help and he relied on his own skills.
immediately prior to his defeat at the hands of Revan, Malak attempted to harness a heretofore ignored property of the Star Forge. Using Jedi captured from the destroyed enclave on Dantooine, Malak was able to incorporate them into the Star Forge itself, which was seemingly capable of harnessing the power of Force-sensitives and channeling the power into a particular subject – in this case, Malak himself. The Jedi in the Star Forge were unable to become one with the Force while in this state, and Malak could use the energy inside the nearly lifeless bodies to regain his strength. The drained Jedi were apparently killed in the process. Revan sabotaged the system during his battle with Malak on the Star Forge Viewing Platform and it was subsequently destroyed along with the rest of the Star Forge.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDSee the above please.
You want to see an example of Star Forge directly empowering a Sith? Than keep in mind, the Bastilla Shan vs Revan encounter on the Star Forge.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDOk, at least you don't downplay vader.
I have always praised OT Vader's skill with the Force. Hence, I used the term "although a master of the dark side."
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDRight, it will drain vader easily despite vader being nearly as powerful as the most powerful sith lord whom because of his connection the force has defences and very high natural resistance.
What Drain will do, is weaken Vader gradually during the duel by sucking his energy out. And Malak would be feeding on those energies as a result, which will help him in remaining active and not tire out, like Dooku did.
The stronger the opponent, the higher his resistance to such techniques.
Again this has only been demonstrated on captive jedi in stasis, if this technique was so powerful it would have killed revan would it not?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDThen whats up with "Revan can block emerald lightning with a lightsaber"?
And Light Saber is not always useful for blocking very powerful Force Lightning attacks.
Again how is malaks lightning that powerful without the aid of the star forge?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDI can agree to that.
Yes! Both Malak and Vader are vulnerable to TK attacks.And my conclusion is that both these Sith Lords are a big threat to each other.
immediately prior to his defeat at the hands of Revan, Malak attempted to harness a heretofore ignored property of the Star Forge. Using Jedi captured from the destroyed enclave on Dantooine, Malak was able to incorporate them into the Star Forge itself, which was seemingly capable of harnessing the power of Force-sensitives and channeling the power into a particular subject – in this case, Malak himself. The Jedi in the Star Forge were unable to become one with the Force while in this state, and Malak could use the energy inside the nearly lifeless bodies to regain his strength. The drained Jedi were apparently killed in the process. Revan sabotaged the system during his battle with Malak on the Star Forge Viewing Platform and it was subsequently destroyed along with the rest of the Star Forge
Where was this from Ivalice?
The thing is, both characters are extremely unique in their sense of fighting techniques. Malak is an assassin, which uses the force to strike from the shadows, and take his enemy by suprise (as proven at the betrayal of Revan). However, Darth Vadar is an extremely blunt type of fighter- he's one that would prefer to charge in head first with force powers to cripple his enemies. Really, the only thing that would make a difference between one wining and one losing is chance:
If Malak was able to sneak up upon Vadar, then I would say Malak would win.
If Vadar had Malak in his sights, Vadar would win.
As I said it's all about chance.
Originally posted by sanque'Kay, I'd like to know which version of KotOR you play. Malak is a 7 foot tall monster. Brutal and efficient is how HK-47 desribed him. No assassin would obliterate a planet from orbit, something Malak's quite proficient at. He's no assassin, just a backstabber (i.e. a Sith).
The thing is, both characters are extremely unique in their sense of fighting techniques. Malak is an assassin, which uses the force to strike from the shadows, and take his enemy by suprise (as proven at the betrayal of Revan). However, Darth Vadar is an extremely blunt type of fighter- he's one that would prefer to charge in head first with force powers to cripple his enemies. Really, the only thing that would make a difference between one wining and one losing is chance:
If Malak was able to sneak up upon Vadar, then I would say Malak would win.
If Vadar had Malak in his sights, Vadar would win.
As I said it's all about chance.
Originally posted by Man of Christ'Cuz you know, Malak would easily be Force-choked. And there's no way in Hell his lightning would do anything to Vader's incredibly durable system.
IMHOvader force chokes malak to his knees in agony then beheads him EASILY>
COMPARED TO SITH LIKE VADER AND SIDDIOUS, MALAK AND REVAN WERE CHUMPCHANGE!!!
Originally posted by Tangible God
'Cuz you know, Malak would easily be Force-choked. And there's no way in Hell his lightning would do anything to Vader's incredibly durable system.
true seeing as how vader was trained by siddious who had a way more rigorous training style and was the most powerful sith in history of whom vader was about 80% as powerful.
but getting to the points
1) vader can choke malak without lifting a finger so malak wont be aware of it until it's too late
2) i think after 20 years of sith training vader knows how to counter lightening (with his saber possibly)
3) malak is less likely (from seeing him work in the game) to use lightning as oppose to whipping out his blade and trying to batter his opposition down.
this strategy wont work against vader as he can do what he did to luke in ESB which is take the force and fling things at malak, knocking off his jaw and embrasing him then beheading him.
Originally posted by Man of ChristTrue, Malak's a brute. Unless he notices how frail Vader's system might be, he'll likely go charging in and get done out by Vader. But I don't think the Choke would be as effective as you think. I feel pretty confident in giving Malak a chance that he can dissipate the effect.
true seeing as how vader was trained by siddious who had a way more rigorous training style and was the most powerful sith in history of whom vader was about 80% as powerful.but getting to the points
1) vader can choke malak without lifting a finger so malak wont be aware of it until it's too late
2) i think after 20 years of sith training vader knows how to counter lightening (with his saber possibly)
3) malak is less likely (from seeing him work in the game) to use lightning as oppose to whipping out his blade and trying to batter his opposition down.
this strategy wont work against vader as he can do what he did to luke in ESB which is take the force and fling things at malak, knocking off his jaw and embrasing him then beheading him.