Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
The novel clarified the fact that Mace contacted Yoda before engaging Sidious; I see no reason he did not do the same while on the shuttle. After all, he would be extremely dumb to not tell anyone... and I'm pretty sure he consulted Yoda before moving on to arresting Sidious. Who, I'm sure they knew, would be far stronger than any they faced before. They were right, weren't they?And I somewhat agree with Superboy Prime... during the beginning, he was gong all out, but when the fight mvoed to the ledge, he dropped his speed and ferocity.
iv just checked the novel sidi-boy, and ur right. he did tell yoda what was going on. i guess the movie just misses out parts.. but it also explains why Yoda said to Obi-Wan "Strong enough to face this Lord Sidious you will never be. Die you will and painfully.." even though Yodas never fought him.. because this is what happened to Mace.. so why would Obi-Wan fair any better.. also they knew mace, kit, kolar and tiin toghether failed to defeat Sidious.
and based on that Obi-Wan actually says to Yoda "even together we wuldnt stand a chance.." both of them against Sidious that is.. then yoda says something like "but seperately we might."
Originally posted by DARTH POWERand based on that Obi-Wan actually says to Yoda "even together we wuldnt stand a chance.." both of them against Sidious that is.. then yoda says something like "but seperately we might."
i never understood that last line of logic really? thoughts on it? isn't 2 generally stronger than 1? at least, that's what we assume in every one of these threads.
Obi-Wan sucks in two vs. one fights, despite the fact he was the only character in the saga to be involved in them; the first time, he got ass-kicked about three seconds into the fight, the second time, he was incapable of using his abilities to their fullest.
Why is that? Because Obi-Wan is a defensive fighter. His offense is limited, at best, and specializes in taking out a target's vital area swiftly in one strike; he cannot use long combos in Soresu, which has no preemptive strikes. As such, Obi-Wan would stand a better chance if his opponent's attacks are directed at him.
Oh, and I liked novel Sidious' fights a lot better than in the movie ^_^. Especially Mace vs. Sidious... Sidious vs. Yoda was awesome, but it felt like a taste of Sidious' lightsabers skills rather than a real fight. If it was a 5 minute long pure lightsaber fight, it would've been a lot better... especially if it still ended with the lightning... but oh well.
Sometimes 1 vs. 1 is better than 2 vs. 1. Obi-Wan would just get in Yoda's way fighting Sidious. That's assuming Sidious doesn't fry him two seconds into the fight...
that's true, Yoda had already failed to kill Dooku TWICE because he had to save obi-wan and anakin. mebbe he just didn't want the B team member around when he went after sidious. Doesn't make sense why he wouldn't say " Okay, i'm going to go try to kill the emporer, and if i get that done, then you just hold on, and i'll come kill Vader, cause you might get killed trying. You go ahead and try to kill vader later, if i get killed"
i loved the novelization of those lightsaber fights, all 3 from ROTS. I read it before the movie came out, which was stupid, and i regret to this day, so when i actually saw the movie, i was pretty disappointed. especially with the 4 masters against Sids, that sucked SO much after reading the book.
was just reading loads of the novel last night, and cant get enough of it! Yoda vs. Sidious was awsome... i love the line "hes the avatar of light, the Grand Master of the Jedi Order.. the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever faced... and it wasnt enough.."
this made it clear that no one could have defeated Sidious at that point. The Sith had been preparing for this for 1000years, and adapting to the ways and weaknesses of the jedis. whilst Yoda realised his mistake in trying to make this new jedi order like the old one from 1000years back which wasnt as relevant for today. he should have been more open in how to apply jedi training for the modern day.
he should have listened to Qui-Gon more, and even tells Qui-Gon you were always a Great Jedi Master, but I just did not see it. and then he becomes Qui-Gons apprentice. Really cool. they should have included that scene with Qui-Gon and Yodas conversation in the movie, because it explains a lot. While most people think Qui-Gon was on the wrong path and should have followed the Jedi Council, it was actually the other way around, which is a big part of what lead to the destruction of the Jedis.
I guess the New Jedi Order under Luke Skywalker has learned from the old ones mistakes. So I guess that would make the NJO far superior to the old one.
Originally posted by truejedi
i never understood that last line of logic really? thoughts on it? isn't 2 generally stronger than 1? at least, that's what we assume in every one of these threads.
yeah i was a bit confused about that myself.. I think the actual line was "but both of us apart a chance we might create." not sure about the logic, but what they did know is that Mace had 3 jedis as back up and that didnt help.. maybe seperate they can both go all out, and just by one of them succeding a chance would have been created.
also maybe together it would have been more difficult for them to even reach Sidious without a load of guards noticing and interfering. Yoda just kind of sneaked in on his own. but like i showed in my above post.. it didnt make a difference. he culdnt be defeated.
even Mace says in the novelisation and the comic adaptation "Anakin help me. Hes too strong for me." this was mace accepting he cant defeat him either. The only hope was with the Chosen One and family.
like Lucas himself says "Anakin could have done had it" had Obi-Wan not messed him up... as he was already almost as Strong as Sidious, and was still getting stronger. Now the only hope was those 2 twins at the end of the movie.
Originally posted by Faunus
It kind of is. Mace had absolutely no information to go on when making his decision, and somehow four of the best duelists the Jedi Order had ever produced weren't enough to handle Palpatine. Anakin, again, knew Obi-Wan inside and out. He had no excuse.On that note, the novel's depiction of the Mace vs. Palpatine battle was about a thousand times better than the movie's. It actually explained why Sidious was able to take out Agen, who appears to have been the best duelist on the team behind Windu.
It appears you were right Faunus.. I should have read the novel before jumping to conclusions. Mace Windu did warn Yoda, and he warned the Jedi Temple, even telling the padawans to take up arms. when he went to face Sidious he took all the Council members who were available. and Kit Fisto kept saying "Id feel a lot better if Yoda was here." the simple fact is Sidious couldnt be defeated. That becomes clear when reading the novel.
So I do Apologise.
XD this is turning into a Sidious power analysis lol. Tho I like those, it's still Obi-Wan vs. Mace, isn't it? But w/e... this is fun too.
Oh, Yoda vs. Sidious was awesome in the movie, too... you could really see how in every phase of the fight, Sidious began to gradually intensify his powers. Beginning arrogant, and than using more power... for example, in Phase One, he forced lightning'd Yoda, and rather than killing him there, he went on to laugh and taunt Yoda. Next second, he's getting pushed and decides it's not wise to fight Yoda... then comes the saber fight. At the beginning, Sidious simpyl saberlocks with him numerous times while laughing; then they get up, Sidious beginning at medium-speed levels, and after the first saberlock, actually going crazy with his intensity and striking extremely quickly and viciously. Then comes the pods laughing thing and then intense lightning...
Very good, finally reveals Sidious for the nutcase he is ^^.
yeah i change my vote to Mace. iv been convinced.. by the way in the ROTS novel The Council does point out that Obi-Wan is the most cunning warrior on the Council.
but then Mace has Shatterpoint. so Mace has more advantages here. but im hoping people will at least aknolwedge that Obi-Wan doesnt go down easy.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
yeah i change my vote to Mace. iv been convinced.. by the way in the ROTS novel The Council does point out that Obi-Wan is the most cunning warrior on the Council.but then Mace has Shatterpoint. so Mace has more advantages here. but im hoping people will at least aknolwedge that Obi-Wan doesnt go down easy.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
yeah i change my vote to Mace. iv been convinced.. by the way in the ROTS novel The Council does point out that Obi-Wan is the most cunning warrior on the Council.but then Mace has Shatterpoint. so Mace has more advantages here. but im hoping people will at least aknolwedge that Obi-Wan doesnt go down easy.
Agree on this matter I must.
Accurate every word is.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Theres no point, it really isn't a debate any longer. Mace wins.
Did you completely ignore the points I've been making all along? Read before you jump to conclusions.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
yeah i change my vote to Mace. iv been convinced.. by the way in the ROTS novel The Council does point out that Obi-Wan is the most cunning warrior on the Council.but then Mace has Shatterpoint. so Mace has more advantages here. but im hoping people will at least aknolwedge that Obi-Wan doesnt go down easy.
Thank you very much ^^.
So, it is agreed that Mace > Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan's tactical knowledge of strategy, environmental usage, Sokan, etc will allow him to have a very good chance of winning in a non-flat terrain such as the senate?