Originally posted by Tangible God
Believe what you want, that doesn't make him right. Get to know Noobaris. He can debate here, but he'd suck Bane's cock in a flash meanwhile Bane's pulling a moon from orbit to crush Sidious. He's a fanboy. And while skywalker833 may not be a fanboy, he should be careful of who he claims can beat who, because this a forum of Star Wars nerds, and many of us know what we're talking about.
I got a good laugh out of this. Mine if I profile it?
Originally posted by Tangible God
he should be careful of who he claims can beat who, because this a forum of Star Wars nerds, and many of us know what we're talking about.
Originally posted by Tangible God
Believe what you want, that doesn't make him right. Get to know Noobaris. He can debate here, but he'd suck Bane's cock in a flash meanwhile Bane's pulling a moon from orbit to crush Sidious. He's a fanboy. And while skywalker833 may not be a fanboy, he should be careful of who he claims can beat who, because this a forum of Star Wars nerds, and many of us know what we're talking about.
Lol... this actually got me laughing. Who's this 'Noobaris'? I trust that not his real name?
And yeah. If someone says something you think is wrong, disprove him via proof rather than by telling him he's biased... that's just the easy path, which leads to the dark side. 😎
Originally posted by Tangible God
It's bias and potential fanboyism when someone states something that goes against the general consensus.
By that logic, all of the Obi-Wan fanboys could gather together for a picnic, invite the most objective person in the world along, have a debate on Star Wars, and if said objective person were to accurately gauge Obi-Wan's ability, and disagree with the general consensus on the matter, he's the biased one.
Tangible God's logic FTW!
Originally posted by FarfallaLol, fanboys tend not use logic in the first place, that's why they're fanboys. Said objective person is the voice of reason here. And if the general majority of these fanboys is too dumb or biased to see his accuracy, then... well it's already been said, they're fanboys, noone's expecting them to do that.
By that logic, all of the Obi-Wan fanboys could gather together for a picnic, invite the most objective person in the world along, have a debate on Star Wars, and if said objective person were to accurately gauge Obi-Wan's ability, and disagree with the general consensus on the matter, he's the biased one.Tangible God's logic FTW!
I tend to summarize too much, so by general majority, I'm talking about here in these forums, I can't vouch for all Star Wars fandom. But if it's been proven(using logical, sourced debates) that one character>another... well, forgive us, but when someone else comes along and says "Well I feel the fight is a 50/50 chance," then you must understand where the ire is coming from. There's debates here where, despite the hotheadedness of some, actual facts and sources are used. And maybe it's not anymore granted, but the member population here used to be logical debaters.
Originally posted by Farfalla
By that logic, all of the Obi-Wan fanboys could gather together for a picnic, invite the most objective person in the world along, have a debate on Star Wars, and if said objective person were to accurately gauge Obi-Wan's ability, and disagree with the general consensus on the matter, he's the biased one.Tangible God's logic FTW!
Originally posted by Tangible God
Lol, fanboys tend not use logic in the first place, that's why they're fanboys. Said objective person is the voice of reason here. And if the general majority of these fanboys is too dumb or biased to see his accuracy, then... well it's already been said, they're fanboys, noone's expecting them to do that.I tend to summarize too much, so by general majority, I'm talking about here in these forums, I can't vouch for all Star Wars fandom. But if it's been proven(using logical, sourced debates) that one character>another... well, forgive us, but when someone else comes along and says "Well I feel the fight is a 50/50 chance," then you must understand where the ire is coming from. There's debates here where, despite the hotheadedness of some, actual facts and sources are used. And maybe it's not anymore granted, but the member population here used to be logical debaters.
yeah but general consensus is not really a reliable source here, basically because we are all Star Wars "fanboys"... and if the majority of fanboys here are Mace fanboys and just a few Obi-Wan fanboys then obviously the "consensus" would favour Mace.
and uv sed about people saying 50/50 chance are just Obi-Wan fanboys.. fair enough.. but on the other hand when people are saying Mace whoops Obi-Wans b** every single time.. 10/10.. Obi-Wan doesnt stand a chance, then forgive me for calling those people Mace fanboys.
when I ask people whove seen the movies but are not avid fans, they seem to agree Mace seems stronger, but Obi-Wan smarter, so Obi-Wan certainly has a fair chance.
Tangible God, look at your signature, please. "A person is smart, but people are dumb, panicky animals and you know it." Wise words... that means that the general opinion of the 'public' does not have anything to do with what is right and what is wrong.
I don't want to argue with you about fanboyism and such, but instead of calling someone a 'fanboy', a logical debate would be better. Just my two cents, and I'm done with rambling. xD
Anyway. Do we all agree that Mace is stronger/greater swordsmen, but Obi-Wan stands a fighting chance because of his superior intelligence, creativity, and environmental manipulation skills?
yes i agree Mace is a stronger/greater swordsman. now lets see if any of the mace supporters can admit that Obi-Wan is the smarter, more efficient fighter.
nd id say Obi-Wan has more than just a slight chance.. smarts and resourcefulness gets you far in a fight. and his mastery soresu will help him to put up a good long fight when he loses.
i sed it a few pages back.. id give Obi-Wan at least 3/10. on a good day 4/10. and iv honestly thought about both characters strengths and feats and abilities logically, and really tried not to be biased.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
yes i agree Mace is a stronger/greater swordsman. now lets see if any of the mace supporters can admit that Obi-Wan is the smarter, more efficient fighter.
I'll take that. I'm a BIG Windu fan and I DO SAY that Kenobi is smarter, may be more efficient, and stands great chances of success if he can gain his tactical advantage. I try my best to be objective in these sorts of things.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERDamn straight.
yeah but general consensus is not really a reliable source here, basically because we are all Star Wars "fanboys"... and if the majority of fanboys here are Mace fanboys and just a few Obi-Wan fanboys then obviously the "consensus" would favour Mace.and uv sed about people saying 50/50 chance are just Obi-Wan fanboys.. fair enough.. but on the other hand when people are saying Mace whoops Obi-Wans b** every single time.. 10/10.. Obi-Wan doesnt stand a chance, then forgive me for calling those people Mace fanboys.
when I ask people whove seen the movies but are not avid fans, they seem to agree Mace seems stronger, but Obi-Wan smarter, so Obi-Wan certainly has a fair chance.
Originally posted by Darth Maliko
I'll take that. I'm a BIG Windu fan and I DO SAY that Kenobi is smarter, may be more efficient, and stands great chances of success if he can gain his tactical advantage. I try my best to be objective in these sorts of things.
I applaud your objectivity. Your a wise man Darth Maliko.
It would be a tough fight.
If Kenobi won: I could see Kenobi finding a tactical advantage, holding off Mace with his mastery of soresu on the way, then exploiting the weakness, and beating Mace.
If Windu won: Mace could slowly beat down Kenobi with his mastery of Vaapad before he finds a tactical advantage.
Originally posted by Faunus
If Kenobi can gain a tactical advantage, he may be able to win. The problem would be getting there, and since Mace is a deadlier and considerably smarter opponent than Anakin was, I don't see that happening.
Smarter? Yes. Deadlier? Arguable. Anakin was a level 9 swordsmen, which places him on the same tier as Windu; but as I've clarified before, Sidious/Yoda/Mace are all better fighters than him because of their intelligence and more controlled way of fighting.
The thing is... gaining a tactical advantage does not necessarily have anything to do with your opponent. Imagine this; Obi-Wan and Windu fight in the Senate. Windu is ripping at Obi-Wan's defenses, Obi-Wan is 'pushed' back, and then he suddenly leaps up and lands on a pod higher than Windu. THAT'S a tactical advantage, and thus, I doubt Windu will be able to prevent Obi-Wan from jumping, could he? Of course, he'll probably do something smarter than Anakin (like throwing his lightsaber), and eventually, even Windu is bound to make a mistake if Obi-Wan can prolong the combat long enough, by the usage of the environment/etc, Mace will tire himself out or make a mistake. Vaapad is describes as an extremely demanding lightsaber form, and thus, I doubt Windu- a man slightly beyond his prime- would be capable of continuing to fight with equal efficiency for the entire duration of the fight.
However, somewhere like the Death Star, Windu's offense and speed will eventually overwhelm Obi-Wan, and he will die. Much simpler.
Originally posted by Faunus
If Kenobi can gain a tactical advantage, he may be able to win. The problem would be getting there, and since Mace is a deadlier and considerably smarter opponent than Anakin was, I don't see that happening.
ROTS Anakin is as strong as Sidious accordind to Lucas's own commentary, so no Mace is not deadlier than Anakin. He took down Sidious using Vapaad which is more effective on darksiders.
and Mace smarter than Anakin?? is there really any evidence of that?
wasnt very smart of Mace to just take 3 jedis with him to confront sidious none of which were anywhere near as powerful as Sidious or Mace..
since there was no Yoda or Obi-Wan there he should have taken a dozen Jedis to go arrest him. Anakin even warned him how powerful he was, and that hed need Anakins help to arrest him. If he didnt want to take Anakin(with good reason), who was the only other Powerhouse available then take a dozen jedi with you.
Even Sidious would have been no match for a dozen jedi, with or without Mace. I mean he was just told this is the Sith Lord theyve been looking for for the past 13 years, and this guy is head of the republic. This man was the biggest threat to the jedi order and the entire galaxy.
Not very tactical of Mace id say.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
ROTS Anakin is as strong as Sidious accordind to Lucas's own commentary, so no Mace is not deadlier than Anakin. He took down Sidious using Vapaad which is more effective on darksiders.and Mace smarter than Anakin?? is there really any evidence of that?
wasnt very smart of Mace to just take 3 jedis with him to confront sidious none of which were anywhere near as powerful as Sidious or Mace..
since there was no Yoda or Obi-Wan there he should have taken a dozen Jedis to go arrest him. Anakin even warned him how powerful he was, and that hed need Anakins help to arrest him. If he didnt want to take Anakin(with good reason), who was the only other Powerhouse available then take a dozen jedi with you.
Even Sidious would have been no match for a dozen jedi, with or without Mace. I mean he was just told this is the Sith Lord theyve been looking for for the past 13 years, and this guy is head of the republic. This man was the biggest threat to the jedi order and the entire galaxy.
Not very tactical of Mace id say.
I agree. Mace shows a considerable shortcoming in tactical intelligence during the "Sidious/Windu Battle." A few extra Jedi would have been useful and Sidious would most likely have been destroyed before Anakin arrived.