ROTS Obi-Wan Kenobi vs ROts Anakin (rematch)

There was absolutely no reason to post videos and stills because unlike the fight between Yoda and Sidious, this one is much more clear cut. I realize you think you have the ability to debate and that's admirable but you really don't. Anakin's force reserves are incredible, however there's no reason to assume had the fight gone on, Anakin would have eventually tired him out. As Faunus has pointed out, Obiwan possessed the patience, force mastery, and overall defense with Soresu to defeat his counterpart. The longer the fight went, the more arrogant and careless Anakin became.

Originally posted by skywalker833
If he wasn't quicker, how would he be able to block anything 20 blows or less per second!?

Being the most proficient master of Soresu, Obi-Wan is adept in a massive amount of defensive techniques. There is no quote saying that "he blocked them all", he might have evaded, dodged, ducked, and only stopped a few. Likewise, there is no indicator that Anakin is slower. He's in better shape and possesses a greater connection to the Force that would logically allow him to enhance his physical attributes on a greater plane.

I honestly think Grievous attacking Obi-Wan with 20 hits per second has been completely blown out of proportion.

1. He was wielding four lightsaber at once, and if we were to assume that he was wielding all four of them in absolute concert with each other (which the passage leaves open to the possibility), that's five strikes per second, per blade. Give the average human two extra arms, four lightsabers, and enhanced coordination, and he'd likely be able to replicate the very same feat.

2. Even if he had achieved the feat with just one blade, it's still a virtually weightless blade at the end of the day, and with the kinds of speed that Jedi are shown to be able to move at, I fail to see how even that - in relation to the setting - would have been all that impressive.

I do believe it was twenty strikes per second, Nebaris, but I'll find the exact passage and provide it verbatim tonight.

No need, here's the exact passage:

So now, facing the tornado of annihilating energy that is Grievous's attack, Obi-Wan simply is who he is.

The electrodrivers powering Grievous's mechanical arms let each of the four attack thrice in a single second; integrated by combat algorithms in the bio-droid's electronic network of peripheral processors, each of the twelve strikes per second came from a different angle with different speed and intensity, an unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes, chops, and stabs of which every single one could take Obi-Wan's life. Not one touched him.

After all, he had often walked unscathed through hornet-swarms of blasterfire, defended only by the Force's direction of his blade; countering twelve blows per second was only difficult, not impossible. His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters.

Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks-sixteen per second, eighteen-until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense. So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack.

What's interesting is that when Grievous' APS did reach 20, Obi-Wan's defence was described as "overloaded," and he was forced to go on the attack.

You notice during the push sequence, in which you said that Anakin was halfway across the room while Obi-Wan was just getting up: Who hit the table first? Anakin hit the table, and a full second later Obi-Wan hit his. So anakin had that extra second to get up and jump across the room. Obi-wan got up in exactly the same amount of time anakin did. Now you could use the physics argument to say that proves Obi-Wan flew further, but really, in force explosions, as seen with Sidious and Yoda, there is really no control over who gets hit hardest.

I don't believe gthey hit at different times. The camera just switches from one to the other.

They went flying at the exact same time and about the same distance. Anakin landing one second earlier makes really no sense.

as for another reason Obi-Wan looks so drained, and Anakin doesn't: Obi-Wan is being emotionally drained with this fight. (i don't have the novel with me, i'll add those quotes later, ) but it says something to the affect that with each blow, Obi-Wan was dying inside, or something like that. Notice the last picture: Obi-Wan doesn't look weak, he looks like a dude that has had his heart ripped out. Anakin looks all "i'm going to kill you mutha******" Obi-Wan asks anakin to stop over and over again during the fight, and anakin keeps coming on.

He never asked him to stop. After the discussion before the fight, he and ANakin exchange words only briefly right before the end of the fight.
Not once did he ask Anakin to stop in any of those lines of dialog.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy:
There was absolutely no reason to post videos and stills because unlike the fight between Yoda and Sidious, this one is much more clear cut. I realize you think you have the ability to debate and that's admirable but you really don't. Anakin's force reserves are incredible, however there's no reason to assume had the fight gone on, Anakin would have eventually tired him out. As Faunus has pointed out, Obiwan possessed the patience, force mastery, and overall defense with Soresu to defeat his counterpart. The longer the fight went, the more arrogant and careless Anakin became.

Please be quiet troll. Obi-Wan's style is to defend and wear out the enemy yet the only signs of anyone being worn out is Obi-Wan himself.

Originally posted by truejedi
Actually, i just thought of one more: They are standing over Lava. its mustafar... Who has been standing on top of the lava longer? Obi-Wan had at that point where you showed them each standing on their respective droids. He has been closer to heat that makes metal go molten for longer than anakin had been, so he is going to show more fatigue. That kind of heat causes fatigue, the mere act of standing up draining the human body. mebbe that's why anakin couldn't jump as high as he wanted too in the end.

The heat is certaily a factor.

Please be quiet troll. Obi-Wan's style is to defend and wear out the enemy yet the only signs of anyone being worn out is Obi-Wan himself. [/B]

This coming from someone who constantly hides who he is after he got banned? Man, EOD is making you dumber than you were during your tenure on KMC. Stop embarassing yourself..

And nothing indicates Anakin getting closer to killing Obiwan as time progressed. He got most of the kicks in but he was becoming careless.

Blah blah blah. Anakin was choking and beating around Obi-Wan all over the place. Whether it was the Force push out of the hallway leaving Obi-Wan's arms wide open and his body ready for attack or Anakin kicking Obi-Wan away before marching forward nonchalantly, Obi-Wan had nothing in that fight.
The fact Anakin can repeatedly, in the middle of lightsaber duels, not only meet his former master's blade but also accurately begin to kick him around is a testament to how much in command Anakin was.

Yet again, Obiwan spent the fight defending himself and there is NO indication of Anakin breaching Obiwan's defenses.

Ah yes. Obi-Wan's legendary defense. The one that beat Grievous' 16-strikes per second.
Nevermind this never happened in the movie and according to Canon, should be thrown out.

Well, that's nice you know what SHOULD be thrown out, but the fact remains that Obiwan's defenses were never breached in saber combat alone. While Anakin is definitely a better duelist than Obiwan by ROTS, Obiwan is still the smarter fighter.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Ah yes. Obi-Wan's legendary defense. The one that beat Grievous' 16-strikes per second.
Nevermind this never happened in the movie and according to Canon, should be thrown out.

Out of curiosity, how is it not shown in the movie?

Kay. i concede on the speed of Grievous' strikes.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Kay. i concede on the speed of Grievous' strikes.

No problem.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Blah blah blah. Anakin was choking and beating around Obi-Wan all over the place. Whether it was the Force push out of the hallway leaving Obi-Wan's arms wide open and his body ready for attack or Anakin kicking Obi-Wan away before marching forward nonchalantly, Obi-Wan had nothing in that fight.
The fact Anakin can repeatedly, in the middle of lightsaber duels, not only meet his former master's blade but also accurately begin to kick him around is a testament to how much in command Anakin was.

I gotta say: this one hurts your credibility, at least in my eyes. Blah blah blah is never a good reply in any discussion. just so you know.

That aside: you've added nothing to your original picture argument (which was really good by the way) When it says in the novel that Obi-Wan gave ground on purpose in every exchange, and that he intentionally retreated out over the lava, it goes perfectly with your post. 6 saber strikes followed by a kick is an exchange. I reiterate that NO ONE EVER has been injured by a kick in the star wars universe. (cept mebbe D2 when the droid kicks him.. but i think that's different) So regardless of Anakin landing the kicks, Obi-Wan was doing exactly what Obi-wan wanted to do, according to the novel, and that is not contradicted at all by the movie. (your interpretation of the movie might contradict it, but the facts of the movie, the kicking and the retreating, can coincide with the novel version., and the novel, the second highest form of canon, says obi-wan did exactly what he wanted to when he gave ground and retreated. Anything else in the novelisation, including the further dialogue between Obi and Anakin that you refused to admit as evidence, falls perfectly within the realm of canon as well, because that fight gets cut away from several times for Yoda's fight. If you only want to use the movies as evidence, you are in the wrong forum for that.

That's a respectable and agreeable post. I really don't care enough about either Obi-Wan or Anakin to argue this. I just wanted to give my two cents on it and you are definitely more informed on this topic than I am.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
That's a respectable and agreeable post. I really don't care enough about either Obi-Wan or Anakin to argue this. I just wanted to give my two cents on it and you are definitely more informed on this topic than I am.

eh, i just got lucky, and happened to reread that part of the novel right before this thread went up, so i was remembering that anakin didn't sound as good in the fight as he looked on the screen.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Blah blah blah. Anakin was choking and beating around Obi-Wan all over the place. Whether it was the Force push out of the hallway leaving Obi-Wan's arms wide open

Originally posted by truejedi
I reiterate that NO ONE EVER has been injured by a kick in the star wars universe.