ROTS Obi-Wan Kenobi vs ROts Anakin (rematch)

Originally posted by skywalker833
Obi Wan was a way better swordsman, not as strong in the force though. Obi Wan would win with difficulty.

They were actually roughly equal with both lightsabers and Force.

Seriously, seriously, Anakin would have really won that duel. He beat Dooku when Kenobi couldn't.

The only reason he really lost was because Lucas needed him to make his dramatic change to Darth Vader.

Had that particular part of the plot not been used, say, If RotS had not been a prequel to the OT and the OT didn't exist, Anakin would have overcome Obi-Wan and killed him.

This is kind of obvious, I guess.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
They were actually roughly equal with both lightsabers and Force.

Seriously, seriously, Anakin would have really won that duel. He beat Dooku when Kenobi couldn't.

The only reason he really lost was because Lucas needed him to make his dramatic change to Darth Vader.

Had that particular part of the plot not been used, say, If RotS had not been a prequel to the OT and the OT didn't exist, Anakin would have overcome Obi-Wan and killed him.

This is kind of obvious, I guess.

thats kind of a cop-out don't you think? thats like saying that luke would have beaten Vader on bespin, BUT lucas needed to make a third movie, or that the rancor would have killed luke, but lucas needed luke alive. You can't say something happened in the movie, (only to move along the plot) but wouldnt' happen if it wasn't for the movies. The movies ARE our source. Heck, anakin WOULD have been killed by sebulba in the pod race if Lucas hadn't wanted him alive.

Originally posted by truejedi
thats kind of a cop-out don't you think? thats like saying that luke would have beaten Vader on bespin, BUT lucas needed to make a third movie, or that the rancor would have killed luke, but lucas needed luke alive. You can't say something happened in the movie, (only to move along the plot) but wouldnt' happen if it wasn't for the movies. The movies ARE our source. Heck, anakin WOULD have been killed by sebulba in the pod race if Lucas hadn't wanted him alive.

True, but unlike Luke battling Vader on Bespin, Anakin definantly stood a chance against Kenobi, and given the fact that he was just as good a swordsman, If not better (Dooku) and was actually more powerful with the Force, had the OT not existed, he would have just completely tapped into his true Dark side power and basicly would have went through him like a buzzsaw.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
True, but unlike Luke battling Vader on Bespin, Anakin definantly stood a chance against Kenobi, and given the fact that he was just as good a swordsman, If not better (Dooku) and was actually more powerful with the Force, had the OT not existed, he would have just completely tapped into his true Dark side power and basicly would have went through him like a buzzsaw.

there is actually no evidence that anakin had at this time recieved any sith training into actually tap into that dark side correctly, i mean, he was angry, but he never had any control over it.. its kinda funny to me how completely he falls though. he goes from really upset over cutting off mace's hand in a morally grey area. (should mace kill the senator without letting him stand trial) to 'yes master, i'll go kill bunches of kids for you right away" in the space of one or two sentences.

Heh, true.

I think he was resigned to his fate at that point though, or had started to slide so far into the Dark side that he didn't care.

To be honest I just get the feeling that since he was "The Chosen One" of prophecy and the golden child of The Force, that he would be able to tap into his true potential in that fight and then smoke the hell out of Kenobi.

He basicly does that in the video game anyway. Heh.

And the video game was an avenue of possibility.

You cant just say that if the OT trilogy didn't exist, than Anakin would have pwned obi wan. George Lucas meant for the movies to be this way, and besides, good always prevails!

And when obi 1 said "Don't try it", he probably meant it. If Obi 1 was not sad by anakins fall to the dark side, the fight would have been shorter, with obi wan on top, though it would still be a struggle.
Anakin may be on a higher level of swordsman than obi1, but obi wan is smart and finds a weakness just to use it against them. THis is why he would win.

its just kinda of the "he taught him everything he knew" its hard to beat the person who trained you really. its possible, but it doesn't happen a lot, if that person is dedicated too, because any advances you make, they learn as you make them. But, there is no way they've taught you everything they know, life experience dictates that has to be true. (mebbe anakin needed to teach obi how to get laid though...)

Very true. This is exactly what happened in their fight. Obi Wan knew anakins every move, of course so did anakin.
Random: New Clone Wars TV show looks pretty cool...

Obi Wan was holding back the whole fight, not wanting to kill anakin, not letting the force flow through him. In the end he did though, and he won.

Unsupported. Obi-Wan flew to Mustafar with only one purpose in his mind: killing Darth Vader. It's true that, firstly, he tried to turn him back, but when he realized he would not be able to do so, his mission became clear.

"If you're not my ally... then you're my enemy!"
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I will do what I must."

- [Revenge of the Sith]

We have already established that Obi wan would do what he must! But he didn't want to.

"Obi-Wan knew there was, in the end, only one answer for attachment...
He let it go."

-Revenge of the Sith, pg. 435

This is when he decided to do the unexpected, jump and take the high ground. This shows he was holding back.

Also, Obi wan is a smarter fighter. Like truejedi has said before, he was choosing the ground they fought on the whole time, maybe he didn't know where that was, but it was his choice. He also held his own when they each force pushed eachother, anakin may be stronger in the force, but he hasn't reached the potential where he can fully use it. Obi Wan has had more experience, therefore able to fully use the force to his ability. Obi-Wan is the unrivaled master of soresu like none before him, and has an impenetrable defense, Anakin never broke his defense unless it was a little kick or something.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Seriously, seriously, Anakin would have really won that duel. He beat Dooku when Kenobi couldn't.

Dooku's orders were to kill obi wan, and let anakin capture him. Haven't you read the book? 😠

Originally posted by skywalker833
Dooku's orders were to kill obi wan, and let anakin capture him. Haven't you read the book? 😠

And in the book it says this when Anakin is fighting Dooku(prior to dooku saying i sense great fear in you) :

And even now, he was holding himself back; even now, as he landed at Dooku's flank and rained blows upon the Sith Lord's defenses, even as he drove Dooku backward step after step, Dooku could feel how Skywalker kept his fury banked behind walls of will: walls that were hardened by some uncontrollable dread.Dread, Dooku surmised, of himself. Of what might happen if he should ever allow that furnace he used for a heart to go supercritical.

Yeah, he used his anger to beat dooku. And just because he beat dooku and obi1 didn't, doesn't mean obi can't beat anakin.

Originally posted by skywalker833
Yeah, he used his anger to beat dooku. And just because he beat dooku and obi1 didn't, doesn't mean obi can't beat anakin.

No offense, but you completely missed my point. My point is that even though Anakin was holding back at this point, he still had the upperhand on Dooku which moots the point of Dooku intending to let himself be captured yet still drive Anakin even closer to the darkside and the novel would make it clear that Dooku had no chance as he would soon be fighting for his life like never before. As the novel says at different points later

A starburst of clarity blossoms within Anakin Skywalker's mind, when he says to himself Oh. I get it, now and discovers that the fear within his heart can be a weapon, too.

It is that simple, and that complex.

And it is final.

Dooku is dead already. The rest is mere detail..............

Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless. His vast wealth, his political influence, impeccable breeding, immaculate manners, exquisite taste-the pursuits and points of pride to which he has devoted so much of his time and attention over the long, long years of his life-are now chains hung upon his spirit, bending his neck before the ax.

Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke.............

In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.

Decide.

So he does.

He decides to win.

He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair. The hand falls with a bar of scarlet blaze still extending from its spastic death grip, and Anakin's heart sings for the fall of that red blade.