would ESB vader vs Aotc anakin be longer than ESB vader vs esb luke?

Originally posted by Man of Christ

and that once luke got mad, vader didnt seem to be able to stop him or to call upon these powers you say he has.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

upon confronting siddious yoda said "at an end your rule is, and not short enough it was"

but after the duel he said "into exile i must go, failed i have'

this shows that just cause a character says it doesnt mean its true. YOU NEED PROOF NOT JUST WORDS.

I myself already had stated that the movies books and novels and comics were a clear indication of how powerful vader is and the movies itself already showed that vader could have killed luke at any time.

Its so sad you just cannot and will not accept this fact man of christ solely due to the fact that you are too incompetent to read anything i have mentioned or read more EU material which depicts superiority.

Now man of christ, post your same pile of shit and i swear i will humiliate and own you infront of the entire forums with overwhelming evidence if you don't shut the hell up.

Originally posted by Ivalice
[B]Maybe you forgot the fact that he can't because he was constantly getting wacked by a lightsaber and had to put his up or he would have gotten killed.

]

cursing is neither neccesary nor civil.

now to your argument.

if vader was able to kill him at ANY moment as you say then there is no "he cant'" because durring those moments too vader couldve put up a good defense but he doesnt

Vader was trying to bait Luke to the Dark side, not kill him, but at the end he definitely just lost control of the fight.

That said, were the two going at it for real, Vader would annihilate his son. Luke lacks the age and experience, training, skill, and realized power to compete with him.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

if vader was able to kill him at ANY moment as you say then there is no "he cant'" because durring those moments too vader couldve put up a good defense but he doesnt

Uh what moments vader could have put up a defence? What force technique did luke unleash on vader? Think about what you are typing pal, you make absolutely ZERO sense.

Here we have FOUR people(Me, elite hunter, captain rex and faunus) stating the same thing that vaders INTENTION was to pull luke to the dark side on BOTH occasions and THUS unable to kill him, ok you get it?

Now, if you STILL can't get our points that lukes statement is STILL valid then you should go lock yourself up in a mental institution.

You got that? KTHXBAI!

Originally posted by Ivalice
My god you are an idiot beyond belief, YES IT IS [b]necessary because you are either stupid or just to damn lazy to read.

Uh what moments vader could have put up a defence? What force technique did luke unleash on vader? Think about what you are typing pal, you make absolutely ZERO sense.

Here we have FOUR people(Me, elite hunter, captain rex and faunus) stating the same thing that vaders INTENTION was to pull luke to the dark side on BOTH occasions and THUS unable to kill him, ok you get it?

Now, if you STILL can't get our points that lukes statement is STILL valid then you should go lock yourself up in a mental institution.

You got that? KTHXBAI! [/B]

what about yourself are you insecure?
that you feel the need to curse?
be rude?
rough childhood.?

Originally posted by Man of Christ
what about yourself are you insecure?
that you feel the need to curse?
be rude?
rough childhood.?

Why did i insult you? Because i repeated the same thing over and over again as to WHY lukes statement is valid, but you just can't accept it can you? Along with the fact that OTHER individuals were trying to tell you the same thing. Your just too damn stubborn to listen hence(And i am not surprised) i'm not the first person to attack you.

Oh BTW, that was a lame half ass comeback.

So MOC like in a previous thread last year, I ask you for proof that Luke could be Vader had Vader been trying to kill him, especially without using the darkside.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Nope, i just feel the need to point out your stupidity. If i felt insecure i wouldn't waste my money getting a gaming comp let alone argue with an individual whom has demonstrated stupidity beyond "the rictor scale".

Why did i insult you? Because i repeated the same thing over and over again as to WHY lukes statement is valid, but you just can't accept it can you? Along with the fact that OTHER individuals were trying to tell you the same thing. Your just too damn stubborn to listen hence(And i am not surprised) i'm not the first person to attack you.

Oh BTW, that was a lame half ass comeback.

i was wondering how you could be so hateful

also how you could be so forgetful in not regarding the rules which calll you not to be vulgar

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
So MOC like in a previous thread last year, I ask you for proof that Luke could be Vader had Vader been trying to kill him, especially without using the darkside.

Thank you elite hunter for showing civility in this board.

and to address your question i stated that luke seemed to be in control of the duel while on the lightside as you see when they first start dueling, niethier duelist is backing up but then luke kicks vader down the steps.

(granted they didnt have cgi or nick gilliard back then but this is still an impressive feat)

he could have pressed the attack on that level

Knock it off, Ivalice. Last time I'm going to say it. It doesn't matter how stupid you believe Man of Christ to be, you can't insult him or anyone else, or you can't participate.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
Thank you elite hunter for showing civility in this board.

It's what I'm here for

and to address your question i stated that luke seemed to be in control of the duel while on the lightside as you see when they first start dueling, niethier duelist is backing up but then luke kicks vader down the steps.

Then the next part of the duel is Vader on the offensive with Luke being force to retreat twice (up onto that bridge-like structure,then went into hiding) prior to using the darkside

he could have pressed the attack on that level

Furthermore I would also like to point out that Vader has beaten more experience opponents(jedi) when he is going all out and that Luke even after ROTJ is having trouble with a force witch(nearly killed him), which is not on the level of a Dark Lord of the Sith such as Vader who can rival other sith like Malak,Dooku,etc. and I highl doubt ROTJ Luke can compete with them.

I realized that I never gave an opinion about this battle. I would have to say that AOTC Anakin>ESB Luke due to more training but since ESB Vader wanted to keep Luke alive it is possible for Luke to last longer vs Vader since Vader would have no reason for Anakin to live. Though if he goes all out on both of them Anakin would last a little longer.

How many limbs did Vader lose? 8 I think. The guy could go on Wheel of Fortune and lose a limb to Pat while Vanna turns over the letters to spell Return of the Jedi.

Let's see...

Anakin lost his hand in AOTC to Dooku, then the mechanical limb on Nelvaan in the Clone Wars cartoon, then lost his arm and both legs to Obi-Wan in ROTS, then a mechanical limb in Jedi Purge, then a mechanical limb to Luke with distractions from Obi-Wan's spirit (I forget when), then his hand in ROTJ.

So yup, eight!

Didn't Sidious take one of Vader's hand at one point?

then a mechanical limb to Luke with distractions from Obi-Wan's spirit (I forget when)

If you read any EU novels which is pretty clear you don't that luke stated at ANY given point of time during the duels in TESB or ROTJ, vader could have easily killed him had he wanted to. You seem to forget that vaders intention in BOTH movies was to turn luke, NOT kill him.

And Luke had no intention to kill Vader in ROTJ.
What’s your point?

And as for TESB i think it is pretty clear that vader wasn't trying to kill luke or immobalise him until he let his guard down when luke wacked his shoulder.

Looked more like he continuously underestimated Luke, first with the carbonite freeze pit and then later when Luke hit his shoulder.
He didn’t “let his guard down.” He just was outmaneuvered in a fair duel.

and when they both were holding back Vader was still winning the ROTJ duel.

Eh? There were a few seconds of even lightsaber dueling before Luke knocks Vader threw the air with one casual kick to the chest. Vader’s on his ass in less than 30 seconds.
Luke then “lowers his defenses” but is still quick enough on the draw to re-ignite his lightsaber and defend against every blow Vader dished out. There were two relatively even and long saberlocks before Luke turns off his blade and flips away after dodging a couple of Vader’s strikes.

Vader then throws his saber at Luke and then the taunting followed by Luke pwning Vader commences.

So, tell me, where in all that was Vader winning?

After Luke got the one kick to Vader,Vader was the one causing Luke to retreat until(no matter what the circumstances were, Vader was dictating duel)

Luke was retreating because he didn’t want to fight his father. Hell, his mind wasn’t even on the duel. He was busy reading Vader’s mind as evidenced by his line “I can feel...the conflict”

Then the next part of the duel is Vader on the offensive with Luke being force to retreat twice (up onto that bridge-like structure,then went into hiding) prior to using the darkside

A. He wasn’t forced into anything. He shut off his lightsaber and was refusing to fight.
B. Again, because he didn’t want to fight his half-crippled droid of a father.

Or whatever Lucas called Vader at this point.

Furthermore I would also like to point out that Vader has beaten more experience opponents(jedi) when he is going all out and that Luke even after ROTJ is having trouble with a force witch(nearly killed him), which is not on the level of a Dark Lord of the Sith such as Vader who can rival other sith like Malak,Dooku,etc. and I highl doubt ROTJ Luke can compete with them.

We also having Thrawn Trilogy Luke being around the level of Joruus C’baoth who would own Vader..

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Luke was retreating because he didn’t want to fight his father. Hell, his mind wasn’t even on the duel. He was busy reading Vader’s mind as evidenced by his line “I can feel...the conflict”

And as I said:

(no matter what the circumstances were, Vader was dictating duel)

A. He wasn’t forced into anything. He shut off his lightsaber and was refusing to fight.
B. Again, because he didn’t want to fight his half-crippled droid of a father.

Or whatever Lucas called Vader at this point.

We also having Thrawn Trilogy Luke being around the level of Joruus C’baoth who would own Vader..

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
We also having Thrawn Trilogy Luke being around the level of Joruus C’baoth who would own Vader..

And this conclusion is based on what evidence? If one wishes to take Mr. Zahn's narrative as it was intended, Joruus C'Baoth might actually be on par or superior to the Emperor himself -- Zahn certainly implied it numerous times, during C'Baoth's rants how he mastered the Force on a level "beyond the Emperor"; during Mara Jade's own internal narrative that she'd never experienced anything [like C'Baoth] even from the Emperor; even Lando Calrissian comes to the conclusion that "C'Baoth is at least as dangerous as the Emperor was. Perhaps even moreso" -- yet we know for a fact that that isn't true. The story was ultimately retconned that Joruus C'Baoth was cloned from genetic tissue taken from the original host, Jorus C'Boath, during the various batteries of tests taken from the Jedi Master before he could depart on the Outbound Flight project. Let us also not forget George Lucas's own decisive statements on the matter: Palpatine was always on the lookout for someone who could be stronger than him in the Force. It's no surprise that Vader turned out to be a colossal disappointment in the Dark Lord's eyes. Sidious had knowledge of Joruus (he created him!), so if C'Baoth were indeed more powerful than Vader, is it not logical to assume that Sidious would want to take the cloned Jedi Master as an apprentice?

Maybe because Joruus was completely batshit insane.
I'd take a weaker but sane second-in-command over a guy who may fly off the handle at any time and try to kill me.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
And Luke had no intention to kill Vader in ROTJ.
What’s your point?

Your quote which i will list blow really shows me your true intellect .

Amazing how toying looks exactly like he's getting beaten and thank the heavens Vader has that armor or he'd be dead right now thanks to ESB Luke.

Lol? HOW exactly was he getting beaten when the result of the duel in TESB that luke had his hand hacked off in the process?

Face it pyron, QUIT acting like your a debater.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Does it matter if luke even intended to kill vader had vader wanted to kill luke in the firs place? I think common sense [b]alone says that vader is far superior to ROTJ luke in the force.

Your quote which i will list blow really shows me your true intellect .

Amazing how toying looks exactly like he's getting beaten and thank the heavens Vader has that armor or he'd be dead right now thanks to ESB Luke.

Lol? HOW exactly was he getting beaten when the result of the duel in TESB that luke had his hand hacked off in the process?

Face it pyron, QUIT acting like your a debater. [/B]

i know this is hard for you but Ivalice i ask that you act like a civilized individual and please stop bashing us.

the point pyronknight is making is that if vader didnt have that armor then that one hit luke got in in ESB would have seriously damaged him but getting to the point

luke is not omnicient so it is possible that his statement is flawed and lets face it. vader is luke's father. although my own father is dead ,i know that if i had to fight him while he was still living i would be scared as well .
and if i won based on my skills, i wouldnt say i won because of my skills but because he let me win. its the fear/respect associated with the father position. that causes luke to say this but if you watch ROTJ closesly vader gains no ground in that duel.