would ESB vader vs Aotc anakin be longer than ESB vader vs esb luke?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight

Eh? There were a few seconds of even lightsaber dueling before Luke knocks Vader threw the air with one casual kick to the chest. Vader’s on his ass in less than 30 seconds.
Luke then “lowers his defenses” but is still quick enough on the draw to re-ignite his lightsaber and defend against every blow Vader dished out. There were two relatively even and long saberlocks before Luke turns off his blade and flips away after dodging a couple of Vader’s strikes.

Vader then throws his saber at Luke and then the taunting followed by Luke pwning Vader commences.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight

B. Again, because he didn’t want to fight his half-crippled droid of a father.

Or whatever Lucas called Vader at this point.

You SEROUSLY underestimate vader despite him being as nearly as the most powerful sith lord in history.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
i know this is hard for you but Ivalice i ask that you act like a civilized individual and please stop bashing us.

If i was the one who was wrong and arguing like a broken record, faunus would step in and tear my arguments to shreds which in this case he actually is backing up my point.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

the point pyronknight is making is that if vader didnt have that armor then that one hit luke got in in ESB would have seriously damaged him but getting to the point

Originally posted by Man of Christ

luke is not omnicient so it is possible that his statement is flawed and lets face it.

And this statement comes from an intellect known as faunus whom is more credible than both you and pyron knight in this forum(no offence seriously)

Vader was trying to bait Luke to the Dark side, not kill him, but at the end he definitely just lost control of the fight.

That said, were the two going at it for real, Vader would annihilate his son. Luke lacks the age and experience, training, skill, and realized power to compete with him.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

vader is luke's father. although my own father is dead ,i know that if i had to fight him while he was still living i would be scared as well .
and if i won based on my skills, i wouldnt say i won because of my skills but because he let me win. its the fear/respect associated with the father position. that causes luke to say this but if you watch ROTJ closesly vader gains no ground in that duel.

Vader-was-not-trying-to-kill-luke. U-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d? vader was h-o-l-d-i-n-g b-a-c-k and lost control of the fight.

Lol? HOW exactly was he getting beaten when the result of the duel in TESB that luke had his hand hacked off in the process?

Because Vader would never have done that if he didn't have the armor...he would have lost then and there thanks to that one hit by Luke.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Eh? Do you know how to read? Do you know how to reason logically? Did you forget that vader was holding back the ENTIRE time? Did you forget that luke stated vader could have KILLED him had vader wanted to even if luke intended to kill him?

Vader then throws his saber at Luke and then the taunting followed by Luke pwning Vader commences.

And that "crippled half droid" was powerful enough to rip out an entire bridge, crush the trunk of a huge tree effortlessly, break the necks of ten beings all at the same time, grab his secret apprentice(in the cutscene showed in the trailer) and flinging him like ragdoll and choke xizor millions of lightyears away in the bounty hunter wars.

You SEROUSLY underestimate vader despite him being as nearly as the most powerful sith lord in history.

self control. You should try it sometime.
look vader is one of my favorite characters too but luke still takes this.
i know what luke stated and i already addressed that. is PSYCHOLOGY.

i could go one by one and address how each of those examples of force feats by vader are insufficient to prove your point but i will stick to the short and the sweet by stating that.

none of those objects you mentioned could use the force to resist like luke can,. ten beings lol they were just dogs dude. if thats the case then michael vick is a powerful sith too.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
self control. You should try it sometime.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

look vader is one of my favorite characters too but luke still takes this.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

i know what luke stated and i already addressed that. is PSYCHOLOGY.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

i could go one by one and address how each of those examples of force feats by vader are insufficient to prove your point but i will stick to the short and the sweet by stating that.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

none of those objects you mentioned could use the force to resist like luke can,. ten beings lol they were just dogs dude. if thats the case then michael vick is a powerful sith too.

Again about those 10 dogs, what would happen if a jedi failed to conjure up a force defence or put up a defence? The same would happen pal. Or better yet, vader could shatter his defences as vader is far superior to him in the force as of the OT.

MOC, i seriously suggest you quit debating with me. I am not surprised that i was the only one whom attacked you, darth sexy is on the other hand and he is just as credible as most of the other very good debaters in these forums.

Elite hunter says your wrong, hes more credible than you. FAUNUS himself backed my point considering the fact that if i said something wrong, he comes up and tear me to shreds, but in this case, he has the same opinion as i do. That vader, if he wanted to could have annihilated luke.

My request, if you don't want to get attacked by people in this forum(which i have observed some other members has been doing). Then QUIT arguing like a BROKEN record. Its of if you want to take part but if your wrong and someone PROVES you wrong, then its just best to shut it and accept it.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Because Vader would never have done that if he didn't have the armor...he would have lost then and there thanks to that one hit by Luke.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Accept that you are WRONG. You should DO it when some one defeats your arguments you should also [b]do it when you have nothing to bck up your arguments.

Quantify and substantiate.

No. Coupled with all of vaders feats and superiority in the force, it merely takes common sense to agree with luke.
LMFAOROFLCOPTER. Ripping out a bridge easily and choking opponents millions of lightyears away is insufficient to prove that he is more powerful than someone whom has insufficient force experience to put him on par with someone as nearly powerful as sidious?

Prove that lukes resistance as of ROTJ is so almighty as you are trying to imply, considering that luke couldn't even take a hit from sidious lightning(which by the way was to merely tortue luke) whereas vader on the other hand took a full blast from sidious after sidious stated that he is going to kill luke and still had enough power to carry sidious while getting shocked and hurl his ass down a shaft.

Again about those 10 dogs, what would happen if a jedi failed to conjure up a force defence or put up a defence? The same would happen pal. Or better yet, vader could shatter his defences as vader is far superior to him in the force as of the OT. [/B]

luke can force choke too, so thats not too uncommon and again force choke is just force tk focused on the trachea any force user can do it
again luke could still get up like its nothing after being shocked by sid's lightening for like 3 minutes. now a few seconds of this lighting would kill a normal human being.

luke got up after taking 3 straight minutes of it
vader fell out after taking 10 seconds of it

luke has greater force resistance

Originally posted by Man of Christ
luke can force choke too, so thats not too uncommon and again force choke is just force tk focused on the trachea any force user can do it

Originally posted by Man of Christ

again luke could still get up like its nothing after being shocked by sid's lightening for like 3 minutes. now a few seconds of this lighting would kill a normal human being.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

luke got up after taking 3 straight minutes of it
vader fell out after taking 10 seconds of it

Originally posted by Man of Christ

luke has greater force resistance

Originally posted by Ivalice
Any weakling can do it. The REAL question is could he choke an opponent millions of lightyears away like vader? Could he do it as effectively as vader?
Oh god did you just read my post, sidious was TORTURING luke at first, NOT trying to kill him.
That was because vader took a FULL BLAST of lightning whereas luke was merely getting TORTURED. OH and you FORGOT that vader is naturally WEAK to lightning no matter how great his resistance is because of his SUIT.

No.

prove that the wattage of the shock luke took differed from the one vader took

Originally posted by Man of Christ
prove that the wattage of the shock luke took differed from the one vader took

Originally posted by Ivalice
Notice how after getting shocked for a while and sidious finally says "Now you will die" and then starts shooting out bolts and gets interrupted by vader?

ok i just watched it again and the bolts look the same
but even if we went with that argument lets look at it

after being tortured and subject to about 30 seconds of the "killing" variety of force lightening, luke getsup like its nothing, but vader drops like a fly. thus proving the extent of lukes force resistance.
one bolt knocked yoda out but luke sustained continuous bolts.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
ok i just watched it again and the bolts look the same
but even if we went with that argument lets look at it

Quit arguing like a broken record,

Originally posted by Man of Christ

after being tortured and subject to about 30 seconds of the "killing" variety of force lightening, luke getsup like its nothing,

Originally posted by Man of Christ

but vader drops like a fly. thus proving the extent of lukes force resistance.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

one bolt knocked yoda out but luke sustained continuous bolts.

Seriously man of christ you need to shut the hell up. Your arguments have been defeated time and again and you argue and argue and argue and argue like a condemned broken record.

Really MOC. If lukes resistance is so god damned almighty as you claim and failed to prove and will never prove, how come he didn't "Resist" sidious lightning and get up in the process to kill him? Why lay there SCREAMING in pain BEGGING for his father to help him?

The whole point of him SCREAMING and BEGGING for help shows that he COULD NOT resist the lightning.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Maybe because Joruus was completely batshit insane.

Which, in Zahn's opinion, would actually make him easier to control.

I'd take a weaker but sane second-in-command over a guy who may fly off the handle at any time and try to kill me.

Yes, and I wouldn't be looking for a subordinate who could potentially overpower and destroy me, but Sidious did. It's not as though Vader himself was a beacon of stability. The fact remains that if one is going to assert that C'Baoth outclassed Vader (of which there is no proof), one would also have to assert -- as per the Thrawn trilogy itself -- that C'Baoth was equal to or superior than Sidious himself.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
ok i just watched it again and the bolts look the same
but even if we went with that argument lets look at it

after being tortured and subject to about 30 seconds of the "killing" variety of force lightening, luke getsup like its nothing, but vader drops like a fly. thus proving the extent of lukes force resistance.
one bolt knocked yoda out but luke sustained continuous bolts.

Because, if that was Sidious' best lightning attack on all three of 'em, then that would be what you're saying. Unless of course you mean that it WASN'T Sidious' best attack, which reduces it to a level which is meant to torture the very last of the Jedi, and thus, Sidious and the Sith's last enemy. But isn't that what you're negating?

And since any amount of electricity, especially from Sidious, would fry Vader's circuits, then you can't possibly be arguing that Luke was naturally more powerful than his father simply because such a specific attack kills him.

Which, in Zahn's opinion, would actually make him easier to control.

Tell that to Thrawn.

Yes, and I wouldn't be looking for a subordinate who could potentially overpower and destroy me, but Sidious did. It's not as though Vader himself was a beacon of stability. The fact remains that if one is going to assert that C'Baoth outclassed Vader (of which there is no proof), one would also have to assert -- as per the Thrawn trilogy itself -- that C'Baoth was equal to or superior than Sidious himself.

Of which there is no proof? Well, Joruus can on a whim freeze freeze over 37,000 men. This feat is only surpassed by Exar's freezing of the Senate.
Furthermore C'baoth could literally rip out chunks' of other people's brains and replace them with his own using just his telepathy.
Vader has nothing on C'baoth's demonstrated mental capabilities with the dark side.

Oh and he brought down a fighter-class ship with just rocks using his TK.

Originally posted by Ivalice
You claimed you have watched it, you can't tell the intensity of lightning by merely looking at it.

Quit arguing like a broken record,
Because torturing someone is not as dangerous and powerful as actually killing some one?
NO it DOES NOT. Again how bad can be your reading abilities? Have you forgot that one shock of lightning no matter how great his force resistance will shut down his suit controls thus killing him?
And that one bolt was a very powerful blast whereas the bolt which hit luke WAS NOT MEANT TO KILL HIM meaning it was to TORTURE him.

Seriously man of christ you need to shut the hell up. Your arguments have been defeated time and again and you argue and argue and argue and argue like a condemned broken record.

Really MOC. If lukes resistance is so god damned almighty as you claim and failed to prove and will never prove, how come he didn't "Resist" sidious lightning and get up in the process to kill him? Why lay there SCREAMING in pain BEGGING for his father to help him?

The whole point of him SCREAMING and BEGGING for help shows that he COULD NOT resist the lightning.

again luke got up like it was nothing from continuous bolts of sidious, lightening.
you can tell from sidious furred brow and facial expression that he was putting his all into the force lightening, especially the last time but does it kill luke?
no! the worse thing that happens is luke sweats.
but he got up right after it happened and still had the strength to cary vader off the death star.
thats some pretty frekin high stamina and resistance.

and you keep breaking the rules in your cursing. please be mature.

couldnt sids fry people to ashes with his lightning?..if so he would have owned luke with one hit if he really tried.. 😬

Originally posted by MadMel
couldnt sids fry people to ashes with his lightning?..if so he would have owned luke with one hit if he really tried.. 😬

he did try hence the phrases like 'you will pay for your lack of vision'
'you will die etc...'

Originally posted by Man of Christ
again luke got up like it was nothing from continuous bolts of sidious, lightening.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

you can tell from sidious furred brow and facial expression that he was putting his all into the force lightening, especially the last time but does it kill luke?

Palpatine had one concern left: the venting of his awesome rage. Even to kill Skywalker was not enough; he had to suffer for his defiance. Raising his arms, Palpatine released a withering barrage of Force lightning that tore through the boy and brought him to his knees. Skywalker had never been trained to repel such an assault, nor could he call on his saber to block it. He taunted the Jedi without pause

^ your friend wookiepedia says this. Since you ignore logic and common sense and since you can't debate logically nor accept any bodies arguments, i'll just have to rip a passage of wookie to smack it in your face.

If he could actually resist it he wouldn't have falled on his knees and then roll on the floor screaming like a spoilt brat begging for candy.

Face it MOC, you CANNOT debate, you NEVER will be able to debate, You will NEVER learn to reason logically, you will NEVER be able to voice your opinion which some one will take seriously.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

no! the worse thing that happens is luke sweats.
but he got up right after it happened and still had the strength to cary vader off the death star.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

thats some pretty frekin high stamina and resistance.

Originally posted by Man of Christ

and you keep breaking the rules in your cursing. please be mature.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
he did try hence the phrases like 'you will pay for your lack of vision'
'you will die etc...'

And just a question. How old are you MOC? Are you a 12 year old? 10 year old? Or an 8 year old? Your certeinly don't know when to shut up ESPECIALLY when you get defeated in an argument that you failed to even last in and the fact you don't capitalise. You too are demonstrating the intellect of a 12 year old.

Originally posted by Ivalice
And you keep forgetting that the lightning unleashed by sidious was to an extent where it would not kill him but merely inflict pain which would be non fatal. Had luke actually resisted the lightning he wouldn't have been BEGGING for his daddy to help him.
ROFLCOPTER, have you read the essential guide to characters that sidious was [b]torturing luke and not trying to kill him in the first place. The very fact that you refuse to accept this despite it being repeated so many times only shows me your lack of maturity and hyper ignorance.

Palpatine had one concern left: the venting of his awesome rage. Even to kill Skywalker was not enough; he had to suffer for his defiance. Raising his arms, Palpatine released a withering barrage of Force lightning that tore through the boy and brought him to his knees. Skywalker had never been trained to repel such an assault, nor could he call on his saber to block it. He taunted the Jedi without pause

^ your friend wookiepedia says this. Since you ignore logic and common sense and since you can't debate logically nor accept any bodies arguments, i'll just have to rip a passage of wookie to smack it in your face.

If he could actually resist it he wouldn't have falled on his knees and then roll on the floor screaming like a spoilt brat begging for candy.

Face it MOC, you CANNOT debate, you NEVER will be able to debate, You will NEVER learn to reason logically, you will NEVER be able to voice your opinion which some one will take seriously.
Again if he was so almighty with his resistance why didn't he deflect or repel the attack in the first place, why was he SCREAMING IN PAIN if he was resisting it the whole time? Why was he screaming "FATHER... PLEASE!"

See the above.
Lol? Please be mature? Are you the number 1 hypocrite? You get overwhelmed with evidence and you still argue like a broken record. Even nebaris and s_w_legend know when to stop when they get overwhelmed.

You will die was AFTER torturing luke, just as the essential guide of characters stated he TORTURED luke and was not even trying to kill him yet. He wanted luke to SUFFER not DIE YET.

And just a question. How old are you MOC? Are you a 12 year old? 10 year old? Or an 8 year old? Your certeinly don't know when to shut up ESPECIALLY when you get defeated in an argument that you failed to even last in and the fact you don't capitalise. You too are demonstrating the intellect of a 12 year old. [/B]

the text said he had not been trained to resist it.
i have not been trained to drive a car but if i get behind the wheel i could probably know somewhat what i am doing.

in the case of luke even if you are arguing that the last bolt of lightening was intended to kill him, a normal human being would be dead after a few seconds of that.
you saw how after a 1 second of dookus lightening AOTC anakin was out for a few minutes
but after siddious' killer lightening luke got up INSTANTLY merely sweating.

and please, find better things to than to insult me.