Necromancer (Diablo) Vs. Kratos, Siegfried, Ganon, Yoshimitsu and Hayabusa

Started by Csdabest8 pages
Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
[b]The greatest advantage I see for the Necromancer is the fact that his teleport is more effective, faster and more controlable than the others hmm This is what makes me so certain about his victory, since he will not be caught. [/B]

Evidence. So Far Ryu Hayabusa has had some amazing teleportation abilities. Traveling both short and long distances and mixing teleportation with his combos and moves while fighting. Both in DOA and in NGII. Also with his ability to go into Spirit form and become intangible.

Look at the Necromancer in MadMel's video. That Necromancer has low FCR and is not a too good player but he still teleport relativly swift.

I see. already seen it. So far it seems to just be place movement. From what I can see. I dont see it conjuctioning attacks with it. So im still led to beleive that Ryu's teleportation is more effective. as its still smooth, but able to do more with it.

I have seen Ryu's teleport and even though he may use it to different combo's, it is far from as swift and rapid as the Necromancer's. The Necro would not need to combine it with attacks, because he can more more agile and all his spells are instant, making it not only hard for Ryu to keep up but to counter.

Ryu has used it instantly in his combo's. And even without combos he just uses a simple gesture and he dissapears. In clips of NGII you see him porting over the place quickly to fight multiple enemies at the same time. but thats if you choose to use content from NGII. Even then his speed alone now as seen in NGII with his flash dash should be able to keep up with short range teleportation

The teleport of the Necromancer is not short ranged 🙂

What good if it isnt short range. When Ryu hayabusa cant commit to long range teleportations as well. Specially when he can teleport half way across the globe. If this necromancer teleports out of range. Then he ruins his range as well. Because from what I see the spells it can cast are also limited to range. But i see no reason in not giving them a small range boost but they should keep close to it. Ryu on the other hand has Long range capabilities with his chi blasts, beams, balls, and Raining meteors down from the sky.

Originally posted by Csdabest
What good if it isnt short range. When Ryu hayabusa cant commit to long range teleportations as well. Specially when he can teleport half way across the globe. If this necromancer teleports out of range. Then he ruins his range as well.

Since when did point blank range affect his spells in any way, or is that something that you just made up?
Originally posted by Csdabest
Because from what I see the spells it can cast are also limited to range. But i see no reason in not giving them a small range boost but they should keep close to it. Ryu on the other hand has Long range capabilities with his chi blasts, beams, balls, and Raining meteors down from the sky.

Still, necromancer curses own the ninja.

Confused, blinded, weakened, and all damage he does is reflected back on him. Poor guy.

Reflected back 1000% 😉

i blieve the guy stated that not only in this scenario is he out of curse range

Originally posted by DarkC
Since when did point blank range affect his spells in any way, or is that something that you just made up?

Still, necromancer curses own the ninja.

Confused, blinded, weakened, and all damage he does is reflected back on him. Poor guy.

No the range of his spells that are clearly stated on the official site that your party has given me. The spells have a range of about 6 to 8 yard radius. And again how will a curse own a ninja if the person is to far out of his range to cast So now. The ninja wont get owned by a curse specially since he can easily avoid the range and still be effective in battle.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
[b]Reflected back 1000% 😉 [/B]

He has to cast Iron Maiden on the party first and even that has its range. As you said that the necromancer can teleport long range. So teleporting long range will hinder it since it spells has range issue. So cant cast Iron maiden if ryu is attacking from to far away for the spell to be casted. So the Iron Maiden is made useless. And from that sites decription it says Iron Maiden only works for Melee attacks. So Ninpo magic such as the meteor shower, Inuzama,inferni, and his spiritial blasts,waves, beams, and balls, or anything that isnt like a sword slash, or punchm or kick or throw, Shouldnt be effected by the Iron Maiden.
So even if casted their are abilities that are not Melee to work around it. Also a death blow is a deathblow. But sadly Ryu has items and a Gaurdian spirit that ressurects him. Counting on the items more than tha spirit. Or he could just send his Spirit Clones(phantom copies) to do his dirty work. which are immortal and dont get effected by anything such as spells, magic, bullets, attack anything. They simply phase through and or have no effect. And from the drescription of Iron Maiden that you have given me, and from the site has given me. it seems the person as to directly attack melee wise for the damage to get delt back to them

Then you forget about the items that Ryu has in his possesion. Such as The Bushido Scroll, and The dragon statue. Bushido scrolls give him the ability to control the world, such as the enviornment, and weather(Im not going to go as far to say time but this scroll is powerful). The Dragon Statue gives him the ability to summon the Dark Dragon which is the power of the blade. You said he just couldnt have the swords or blades. both abilities and items given to Ryu in the Ninja Gaiden Games, and Ninja Ryukenden installments all canon to Ryu Hayabusa.

The Art of divine life heals ryu and also cancles out all inflictions bestowed on him. So thats pretty safe to assume curses aswell. Since a curse as seen in many cases are inflictions.

Originally posted by Csdabest
No the range of his spells that are clearly stated on the official site that your party has given me. The spells have a range of about 6 to 8 yard radius. And again how will a curse own a ninja if the person is to far out of his range to cast So now. The ninja wont get owned by a curse specially since he can easily avoid the range and still be effective in battle.

You're under the impression that this battle is solely decided by game mechanics, when this is obviously not the case. Nozdormu made it clear earlier that abilities touched by lore (necromancer spells) are perfectly viable.

The fact remains that a young necromancer was able to work his magic from extremely long distances, such as casting a spell of sight, maintaining the magic of golems, and casting curses when standing on a mountain, and the target of his casting was far, far below into the city in the mountain’s shadow.

Considering the range that he is casting at, yes it would be entirely possible to curse someone from afar as well.

Originally posted by Csdabest
He has to cast Iron Maiden on the party first and even that has its range. As you said that the necromancer can teleport long range. So teleporting long range will hinder it since it spells has range issue. So cant cast Iron maiden if ryu is attacking from to far away for the spell to be casted. So the Iron Maiden is made useless.

All that you just said is noise there. See above argument.
Originally posted by Csdabest
And from that sites decription it says Iron Maiden only works for Melee attacks. So Ninpo magic such as the meteor shower, Inuzama,inferni, and his spiritial blasts,waves, beams, and balls, or anything that isnt like a sword slash, or punchm or kick or throw, Shouldnt be effected by the Iron Maiden. So even if casted their are abilities that are not Melee to work around it. Also a death blow is a deathblow.

Yes, game wise it only works for melee, but in the novels (Moon of the Spider, specifically) it’s been shown to reflect magic, such as Teeth from a rival necromancer. So it can reflect magic.
Originally posted by Csdabest
But sadly Ryu has items and a Gaurdian spirit that ressurects him.

If his soul is stolen by a bone spirit and dragged down to the afterworld, how the hell is he going to get resurrected without a soul?

So you have a shell that just stands there and does nothing. Terrific plan, resurrection.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Counting on the items more than tha spirit. Or he could just send his Spirit Clones(phantom copies) to do his dirty work. which are immortal and dont get effected by anything such as spells, magic, bullets, attack anything.

Terrible ironic of you to say.

There’s been plenty of “immortal” spirit-based enemies in both the first and second Diablo games, not to mention the lore, and they’ve been easily killable. Considering that the fact that the magic of the necromancer is actually based in the dealing of spirits and ghosts, he could easily just “banish” the spirits from the mortal world. If they’re clones or golems, he just dispels them.

To say that magic cannot be countered by magic is stupidity on a level all of its own.

Originally posted by Csdabest
They simply phase through and or have no effect. And from the drescription of Iron Maiden that you have given me, and from the site has given me. it seems the person as to directly attack melee wise for the damage to get delt back to them

As game mechanics dictate, yes. Fortunately necromancers possess the ability to control and summon spirits, even those originally outside his control, so it’s a moot point.

Also, read my argument above regarding Iron Maiden.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Bushido scrolls give him the ability to control the world, such as the environment and weather(Im not going to go as far to say time but this scroll is powerful).

And that is supposed to affect the necromancer how?

Originally posted by Csdabest
The Art of divine life heals ryu and also cancles out all inflictions bestowed on him. So thats pretty safe to assume curses aswell. Since a curse as seen in many cases are inflictions.

Unless he can continually spam heal then that’s a useless tactic, if he’s going to want to do any damage. Even if the curse is dispelled the necromancer just draws another symbol in the air and recasts it. Lore-wise it doesn’t take much mana, if at all. It’s a curse, which means that it falls outside the field of typical spell-related magic anyways.

He gets cursed, he heals.
He gets cursed, he heals.
Rinse, and repeat.

If we’re going by this tactic we may as well cancel Hayabusa out of the picture altogether, as he is going to be utterly useless attempting to dispel each curse that the necromancer throws at him, not to mention recovering from the effects of each curse after it’s been dispelled.

Originally posted by DarkC
You're under the impression that this battle is solely decided by game mechanics, when this is obviously not the case. Nozdormu made it clear earlier that abilities touched by lore (necromancer spells) are perfectly viable.

The fact remains that a young necromancer was able to work his magic from extremely long distances, such as casting a spell of sight, maintaining the magic of golems, and casting curses when standing on a mountain, and the target of his casting was far, far below into the city in the mountain’s shadow.

Considering the range that he is casting at, yes it would be entirely possible to curse someone from afar as well.

All that you just said is noise there. See above argument.

Yes, game wise it only works for melee, but in the novels (Moon of the Spider, specifically) it’s been shown to reflect magic, such as Teeth from a rival necromancer. So it can reflect magic.

If his soul is stolen by a bone spirit and dragged down to the afterworld, how the hell is he going to get resurrected without a soul?

So you have a shell that just stands there and does nothing. Terrific plan, resurrection.

Terrible ironic of you to say.

There’s been plenty of “immortal” spirit-based enemies in both the first and second Diablo games, not to mention the lore, and they’ve been easily killable. Considering that the fact that the magic of the necromancer is actually based in the dealing of spirits and ghosts, he could easily just “banish” the spirits from the mortal world. If they’re clones or golems, he just dispels them.

To say that magic cannot be countered by magic is stupidity on a level all of its own.

As game mechanics dictate, yes. Fortunately necromancers possess the ability to control and summon spirits, even those originally outside his control, so it’s a moot point.

Also, read my argument above regarding Iron Maiden.

And that is supposed to affect the necromancer how?

Unless he can continually spam heal then that’s a useless tactic, if he’s going to want to do any damage. Even if the curse is dispelled the necromancer just draws another symbol in the air and recasts it. Lore-wise it doesn’t take much mana, if at all. It’s a curse, which means that it falls outside the field of typical spell-related magic anyways.

He gets cursed, he heals.
He gets cursed, he heals.
Rinse, and repeat.

If we’re going by this tactic we may as well cancel Hayabusa out of the picture altogether, as he is going to be utterly useless attempting to dispel each curse that the necromancer throws at him, not to mention recovering from the effects of each curse after it’s been dispelled.

Considering that everone read the lore Books I would like proof. Because you can easily just jabber on. feats. Another thing is you said in happen in the book focusing on one character. So giving all feats of one character for another is not viable. Even if they share the same character class. Also I got it from the so called official site.(range) And as known outside sources are only canon to the point until it contradicts the official source. Also real life measurements are hard to translate into a video game seeing as a TV is not a yard long. So are their examples of multiple numbers of necromancers casting long distance spells making it common for all necromancers to cast long distance spells. Also what kind of spells and what where the spells casted. Because the spells on the site all have different ranges. So until Iron Maiden has been seen casted from a far distance. Then the point still stands.

Reflecting and dealing back damage are two different things. and Iron maiden has a time limit as well. Also it can only reflect magic thats its on par with. Its not going to reflect damage from a spell or a technique thats vastly stomps it in power. Such as a Meteor crashing through it. And the spiritial Beams, and blasts are not magic. There are manifestians of spiritial energy. So definetly Iron Maiden wouldnt and shouldnt have any effect in it.

Thats one ability. And the Gaurdian spirit takes back the spirit of the dead from the afterlife and brings it back into the body. His spirit didnt just linger there for the days he sat out.

Not Ironic. The spirit clones the necromancer banished are not the same. And work on different levels. Ryu's spirit clones(phantom copies) are invulnerable to ALL magic and ALL Damage. The only way for them to dissapear is for Ryu to Die, Run out of stamina, or at the end of a level(Fight in which his sends them back). Your neglecting the characters stated abilities and powers which has been officialiy stated. And seeing as how KMC forums saying the characters powers are kept un tact into versus threads. Ryu clone abilities are in the same effect.

No that is not a game mechanic. Its the ability of the character and no its not the same ability. Outline yes but inner workings no. Your trying to find a medium between two character abilities which are different and have the same name. The attacks just phase through and the clone remain uneffected. If it didnt then it would be just a glitch. and since thats how the move is describe by the company, and seen in game then thats how the move works. So no game mechanic thats how it is.

Bushido Scroll gives the user the ability to control the world. So if a person can control the world this gives them power over the seas, skies, land. Giving them ability to manipulate the world as seen fit causing planetary disaster in the form of nature. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand how this is effective in battle. Ability to summon storms, move the lands, causse hurricanes, earth quakes, sand storms, change temeperatures. Control the world naturual world. Im not going to go as far as to say he can control time, animals, and plagues.

Yeah and while he is busy rinse and repeating. What do you expect for him to do about Siegfried, Kratos, Ganon, and Yoshimitsu.

Its funny how you use Game mechanics for the Necromancer when its convient and then switch to Lore when its convient aswell. Things such as perfect AI and a skill tree, with top levels. Then try and apply them to lore.

Information Im waiting for.

-That it wasnt just one Necromancers casting long range curses and spells. That it was all of them. If not then your just giving another characters feats because another character of similiar class did something.

-The Spells that the necromancer used. Because from what I see. All the spells have their different range of effect. So one spell shouldnt apply for all others.

He gets cursed, he heals.
He gets cursed, he heals.
Ryu Summons a spirit Clone
He gets cursed, he heals
The spirit clone cuts him down.

Or one of the other four members of the team cuts him down.

Thing is you made it a 5 on one match when a character that has been fully explored can take him on by himself.

or juggleraped ohhhhhhh snizzzap

Thing is The Art of Divine life. gives the ability to restore Ryu and rids afflictions and dispell curses. So this basically nullifies the Necro's curses.

And I highly doubt that the Necro's bone Armor or Wall will stop A Meteorite shower upon him. Specially since its supposedly weak aginst Magic, and spiritial attacks. and only strong aginst melee.

Ryu has ways of countering Spells that has been disposed on him and damage that has been inflicted.

Yes the necro has ways of blockling melee attacks and so called magic attacks that one necro has performed supposedly.(Even though one characters feats shouldnt be bestowed upon another). i doubt they can block the force of a Meteor.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Considering that everone read the lore Books I would like proof. Because you can easily just jabber on. feats.

It’s not my problem if you don’t read the books or lore. In the meantime, you have absolutely no grounds to call us out on feats or abilities whatsoever, by just using game mechanics as your argument.

What the hell do you want us to do, scan the page out of the novel for you that shows the ability in the lore? Buy them and read them yourself. I’ve said this time and time again, demanding proof is by no means a real argument or point.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Another thing is you said in happen in the book focusing on one character. So giving all feats of one character for another is not viable. Even if they share the same character class.

Don’t try to ‘copout’ whatever feats I list. The necromancer featured twice in the Diablo novels, Zayl does not have remarkable skill, and is technically “young” and less experienced than the others of his order, if extremely creative and tenacious.

Giving all the feats for someone young and inexperienced does matter. You can see what a younger one does in the novels, but we’re talking about a wizened, battle-hardened, expert necromancer here.

So the feats that are possible to accomplish from a younger necromancer are not accomplishable by a more veteran one, is that what you’re saying? Ridiculous.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Also I got it from the so called official site.(range)

And so?

They only show what the skills do in the actual game, not theoretically here, as we are trying to assess.

Originally posted by Csdabest
And as known outside sources are only canon to the point until it contradicts the official source.

Wrong, if it’s endorsed by Blizzard then it technically is as canon as the games themselves. There’s a very fine difference between books and gameplay here, and that’s something that they’re trying to reflect in the books. There’s no contradiction from the books to the games, only from the games to the books because of these ‘simulation’ issues.

A sorceress can blink about half a screen away game wise but they can’t make her teleport to some other region of the world. She has to take a ship or ride a caravan like everyone else.

Considering what you said above and what you said here:

Also real life measurements are hard to translate into a video game seeing as a TV is not a yard long.

I’m stumped as to what kind of point you’re actually trying to make here.
Originally posted by Csdabest
So are their examples of multiple numbers of necromancers casting long distance spells making it common for all necromancers to cast long distance spell

It’s an ability inherent in their wielding of magic. There’s been only one necromancer in the lore as a primary character, and that’s Zayl. He can channel his magic through great distances. But according to you, a wiser, more experienced and skilled necromancer can’t?

I am sorry, but that is just stupid.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Also what kind of spells and what where the spells casted. Because the spells on the site all have different ranges.

Sorry, but I’m not going to flip through both novels just to find out each and every single spell for you that was ever cast by a necromancer, when they were cast, and what they were cast upon.
Originally posted by Csdabest
So until Iron Maiden has been seen casted from a far distance. Then the point still stands.

Zayl could channel magic through distances, through a medium kinda like some seeing sphere. Curses are based on magic, are they not? And usurping spells generally take a lot more to do than just drawing a symbol in mid air and focusing on someone in their mind.
Originally posted by Csdabest
Reflecting and dealing back damage are two different things. and Iron maiden has a time limit as well. Also it can only reflect magic thats its on par with. Its not going to reflect damage from a spell or a technique thats vastly stomps it in power. Such as a Meteor crashing through it. And the spiritial Beams, and blasts are not magic. There are manifestians of spiritial energy. So definetly Iron Maiden wouldnt and shouldnt have any effect in it.

No, it doesn’t matter how powerful the attack is on the necromancer, the attack will be still reflected back to the original caster. You’re thinking of the Iron Maiden as some kind of corporal reflective shield, like the Mirror Shield in Legend of Zelda.

The lore behind the Maiden is that the necromancer reaches into the void and duplicates his life essence and exchanges it with its victim(s), so whatever pain or injury that the necromancer would feel had those attacks landed goes back to the attacker’s life essence instead.

If they’re of spiritual energy, necromancer doesn’t even need Iron Maiden to manipulate them. Hayabusa is dealing with someone that pretty much devotes his magic to the control and manipulation of spirits, ghosts, death and the energy involved in all three. Are you saying a ninja knows more of spiritual energy than a necromancer?

Originally posted by Csdabest
Thats one ability. And the Gaurdian spirit takes back the spirit of the dead from the afterlife and brings it back into the body. His spirit didnt just linger there for the days he sat out.

If a soul is stolen (in this case by the bone spirit) there is no force in Heaven or Hell that is going to get it back. Vengeance from beyond the grave, that’s a different field of magic that has its own power separate from the rest.

Good luck to this so-called Guardian spirit, says I.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Not Ironic. The spirit clones the necromancer banished are not the same. And work on different levels. Ryu's spirit clones(phantom copies) are invulnerable to ALL magic and ALL Damage.

Wrong, the fact they’re corporeal enough to do damage and yet are invulnerable to all magic and all physical attack defies all logic entirely. They’re spirits, not gods. They can and will be banished by the necromancer.
Originally posted by Csdabest
The only way for them to dissapear is for Ryu to Die, Run out of stamina, or at the end of a level(Fight in which his sends them back). Your neglecting the characters stated abilities and powers which has been officialiy stated. And seeing as how KMC forums saying the characters powers are kept un tact into versus threads. Ryu clone abilities are in the same effect.

Considering what you’ve said about the necromancer thus far, I don’t think you’re in a rightful position to tell anyone, let alone me, that they’re neglecting abilities from lore. Hypocrite much?

They’re kept intact, which means they still do damage if left alone, but as far as I know Hayabusa has never encountered someone that specializes in the magic of the dead, can raise, summon, and banish spirits.

Originally posted by Csdabest
No that is not a game mechanic. The attacks just phase through and the clone remain uneffected.

Right, if it’s not a game mechanic then explain to me why you just said this (to the contrary):

If it didnt then it would be just a glitch. and since thats how the move is describe by the company, and seen in game then thats how the move works.

A lesson on hasty statements, I feel.

The company, when they were describing the move, only put it in relation to what Hayabusa encounters in the game.

Originally posted by Csdabest
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand how this is effective in battle. Ability to summon storms, move the lands, causse hurricanes, earth quakes, sand storms, change temeperatures. Control the world naturual world. Im not going to go as far as to say he can control time, animals, and plagues.

I’m going to rephrase this.

Explain to me:
-How controlling those things is going to affect the battle positively without hindering his teammates or himself. (Do you want Kratos to accidentally get blown sky high and dropped back down thousands of miles away by a tornado summoned by Ryu? Or summoning a sandstorm to blind everyone good and proper?)

-How the necromancer is going to be affected when he has wards and enchantments engraven into his armor to protect against the elements and weather.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Yeah and while he is busy rinse and repeating. What do you expect for him to do about Siegfried, Kratos, Ganon, and Yoshimitsu.

Curses take but a thought and a gesture. One second, that’s all it takes.
And considering that the other four can’t really dispel curses, necromancer just curses them as well.
Originally posted by Csdabest
Its funny how you use Game mechanics for the Necromancer when its convient and then switch to Lore when its convient aswell. Things such as perfect AI and a skill tree, with top levels. Then try and apply them to lore.

Funny. I don't recall resorting to game mechanics in the Diablo world yet.

Anyways:
Perfect AI and topped out skill tree =
-Battle hardened
-Experienced
-Skilled

Like I mentioned earlier.

Nice of you to be perceptive and not notice. Try to take the time to read my posts properly this time.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Information Im waiting for.

Need I say more?
Originally posted by Csdabest
-That it wasnt just one Necromancers casting long range curses and spells. That it was all of them. If not then your just giving another characters feats because another character of similiar class did something.

They’re not “similar” class, they’re one and the same class. Necromancer and necromancer. I’m not sure where you pulled that from, but your logic is terrible.

One is just technically better than the other.

Originally posted by Csdabest
-The Spells that the necromancer used. Because from what I see. All the spells have their different range of effect. So one spell shouldnt apply for all others.

But most of the are in the same field of magic, and do apply to the general matter of casting. They’re not all the same, just utilized in different fashion and flexible as to allow the caster more options in the matter in which it is cast.

It’s called M-A-G-I-C.

Originally posted by Csdabest

Ryu Summons a spirit Clone
The spirit clone cuts him down.

No, it gets banished. Or confused.

Remember, the necromancer has an instantaneous teleport, also the ability to mask himself and create illusions. How’s this spirit clone going to find the real necromancer?

Originally posted by Csdabest
Or one of the other four members of the team cuts him down.

Not if they’re also cursed and confused.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Thing is The Art of Divine life. gives the ability to restore Ryu and rids afflictions and dispell curses. So this basically nullifies the Necro's curses.

And it also prevents Hayabusa from doing much else. What joy!

Unless he has unlimited ability to keep relying on the Art of Divine Life, then he's just going to drain himself repeatedly by simply attempting to dispel the necromancer's curses.

Originally posted by Csdabest
And I highly doubt that the Necro's bone Armor or Wall will stop A Meteorite shower upon him. Specially since its supposedly weak aginst Magic, and spiritial attacks. and only strong aginst melee.

They wouldn't stop a full force meteor, but:

1.) They're not stupid nor slow enough to not be able to move out of the way.
2.) Iron Maiden.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Ryu has ways of countering Spells that has been disposed on him and damage that has been inflicted.

He can cleanse himself, that's pretty much it, he can't completely counter magic in a field that he is not familiar with. It's not like he suddenly became an expert on dabbling with corpse and spirits with the snap of a finger.
Originally posted by Csdabest
Yes the necro has ways of blockling melee attacks and so called magic attacks that one necro has performed supposedly.(Even though one characters feats shouldnt be bestowed upon another)

Oh, okay, so if there was another ninja trained and bestowed with equipment in the same fashion as Hayabusa, he couldn't perform any of Hayabusa's basic abilities because he's not Hayabusa even though he's a ninja trained like Hayabusa.

Simply ridiculous.

The character that the five are facing is a necromancer, and Zayl is a necromancer. They were trained and brought up in the same place, taught the same spells, the same principles, everything. Saying that the better one cannot do what the younger one can is just enormously stupid.

Originally posted by Csdabest
i doubt they can block the force of a Meteor.

Interesting how you assume that they'd have to block it in the first place when they could just teleport away.

[QUOTE=10396439]Originally posted by DarkC
[B]It’s not my problem if you don’t read the books or lore. In the meantime, you have absolutely no grounds to call us out on feats or abilities whatsoever, by just using game mechanics as your argument.

What the hell do you want us to do, scan the page out of the novel for you that shows the ability in the lore? Buy them and read them yourself. I’ve said this time and time again, demanding proof is by no means a real argument or point.

Don’t try to ‘copout’ whatever feats I list. The necromancer featured twice in the Diablo novels, Zayl does not have remarkable skill, and is technically “young” and less experienced than the others of his order, if extremely creative and tenacious.

Giving all the feats for someone young and inexperienced does matter. You can see what a younger one does in the novels, but we’re talking about a wizened, battle-hardened, expert necromancer here.

So the feats that are possible to accomplish from a younger necromancer are not accomplishable by a more veteran one, is that what you’re saying? Ridiculous.

And so?

They only show what the skills do in the actual game, not theoretically here, as we are trying to assess.

Wrong, if it’s endorsed by Blizzard then it technically is as canon as the games themselves. There’s a very fine difference between books and gameplay here, and that’s something that they’re trying to reflect in the books. There’s no contradiction from the books to the games, only from the games to the books because of these ‘simulation’ issues.

A sorceress can blink about half a screen away game wise but they can’t make her teleport to some other region of the world. She has to take a ship or ride a caravan like everyone else.

Considering what you said above and what you said here:

I’m stumped as to what kind of point you’re actually trying to make here.

It’s an ability inherent in their wielding of magic. There’s been only one necromancer in the lore as a primary character, and that’s Zayl. He can channel his magic through great distances. But according to you, a wiser, more experienced and skilled necromancer can’t?

I am sorry, but that is just stupid.

Sorry, but I’m not going to flip through both novels just to find out each and every single spell for you that was ever cast by a necromancer, when they were cast, and what they were cast upon.

Zayl could channel magic through distances, through a medium kinda like some seeing sphere. Curses are based on magic, are they not? A

I'm going to reenter the debate now.

I will just say why I think Ganon solos.

Ganon is far stronger than the Necro, hell, even the Barbarian, this point cannot be argued, the feats speak for themselves.

He is able to run quicker from what I have seen and has better reaction time and is more agile.

He has better durability and damage soak at base, the Necro can come close with full equipment.

He has a wider selection of spells, and his minions are more powerful than the Necro's.

He has more destructive power as well, as shown when he, in a near death state, destroyed his castle. He froze over a whole city and wrecked an island.

He is more intelligent and cunning.

He possesses greater melee skill, and IMO, magic skill.

He has far more experience.

Ganon ftw.