Originally posted by snoopdogg
Careful leo these guys may call you a fanboy for thinking a logical way for Supes to win.
😂
sure as hell wouldn't be the first time! ya know, i was going back to the first bunch of pages in this thread -- there was some pretty good debating going on! still name calling and such, but it's really funny reading some of the earlier stuff. it really is quite cyclical. i'd forgotten the writers and editors links me and someone else posted where brevoort and busiek (along with someone i'm forgetting) all said supes would win.
some pretty interesting stuff posted earlier in the thread!
this has always been my personal favourite thread . . . 😍
Originally posted by leonidas
i've spent too much time on this thread in the past. i finally decided i just don't know WHO would win the f'in fight and if forced, i'd say supes 5.5/10. i've actually argued for BOTH sides at different points in this tortured thread's existence. the one problem i had with picking thor is the fact that speed HAS been used -- repeatedly and very effectively against him -- in the past. scans are all in this thread somewhere, but i really don't feel like finding them in the thread or among my own books. but the primary instances are:1. spiderman dancing all around him, pounding on him and thor NOT being able to hit him or get him away WITHOUT a wide dispersal blast.
2. mongoose (twice) making a fool of thor and once even beating him down to his knees then to the ground!! hercules actually had to SAVE thor that time. (mongoose was considerably stronger than spidey)
3. thor being unable to hit the surfer with his hammer
4. glads' blitzing him and knocking his hammer away but NOT following up with his speed (he never does which is why i say he has great travel/blitz speed but NOT combat speed -- unlike superman who has demonstrated MANY times VAST combat speeds)
it is enormously difficult to adequately counter these points without referring to pis/cis. the only real instances of combat speed (not travel speed) thor has shown were against ss and warlock where it is said he moved like 'lightning', but clearly that wasn't meant as a literal description, and in hel, hela commented with something very similar while thor was taking hel apart. if you have others i'd love to see them.
both have ample power to beat the other, but it was the speed advantage (and thor's apparent susceptibility to speed) that won me over slightly. i mean the friggin' MONGOOSE puts him down?? 🙁
Also, I think some people are over-analyzing the Mongoose incident. In the scans where Mongoose runs around Thor, it doesn’t really look like Thor is even TRYING to hit him (no swinging his fists/hammer). Also, considering Thor’s easily blocked bullets and artillery fire (EASILY faster than Spider-Man) and shown he could swing his hammer at twice the speed of light, I would consider it PIS if Thor couldn’t lay a hand on someone like Mongoose. It reminds me of when Wonder Woman had trouble with Deathstroke (where it was stated that Deathstroke was quicker than her, despite her speed feats keeping up with Superman and Jesse Quick).
And even though Thor may have missed the Surfer when throwing his hammer before, he has smacked a pissed-off Surfer away when he flew up close. Considering Norrin’s speed (and he was flying in a straight line) I’d say that’s an impressive reflex feat.
Originally posted by leonidas
i've spent too much time on this thread in the past. i finally decided i just don't know WHO would win the f'in fight and if forced, i'd say supes 5.5/10. i've actually argued for BOTH sides at different points in this tortured thread's existence. the one problem i had with picking thor is the fact that speed HAS been used -- repeatedly and very effectively against him -- in the past. scans are all in this thread somewhere, but i really don't feel like finding them in the thread or among my own books. but the primary instances are:1. spiderman dancing all around him, pounding on him and thor NOT being able to hit him or get him away WITHOUT a wide dispersal blast.
2. mongoose (twice) making a fool of thor and once even beating him down to his knees then to the ground!! hercules actually had to SAVE thor that time. (mongoose was considerably stronger than spidey)
3. thor being unable to hit the surfer with his hammer
4. glads' blitzing him and knocking his hammer away but NOT following up with his speed (he never does which is why i say he has great travel/blitz speed but NOT combat speed -- unlike superman who has demonstrated MANY times VAST combat speeds)
it is enormously difficult to adequately counter these points without referring to pis/cis. the only real instances of combat speed (not travel speed) thor has shown were against ss and warlock where it is said he moved like 'lightning', but clearly that wasn't meant as a literal description, and in hel, hela commented with something very similar while thor was taking hel apart. if you have others i'd love to see them.
both have ample power to beat the other, but it was the speed advantage (and thor's apparent susceptibility to speed) that won me over slightly. i mean the friggin' MONGOOSE puts him down?? 🙁
Very impressive post. Your analytical abilities and logical reasoning have impressed me. By no means do I consider you a fanboy, in fact your reasons are why I couldn't find a decisive winner between these two. I'm pretty split because of the speed thing (though couple of your points are a little off, that was Eric not Thor in the first one)
Originally posted by marvelprince
Very impressive post. Your analytical abilities and logical reasoning have impressed me. By no means do I consider you a fanboy, in fact your reasons are why I couldn't find a decisive winner between these two. I'm pretty split because of the speed thing (though couple of your points are a little off, that was Eric not Thor in the first one)
Exactly. Superman's fighting speed is faster than how normally Thor fights in close range. Superman's got the shakes that will make him quake, he's got the fries that'll cross Thor's eye, and he's got the burgers that'll... well, he's just got burgers. 😆
I've also been pondering on this realistically though I think the slight edge has to go to Thor.
Well written he seems very versatile and not some dumb blond that swings a hammer. He may not be as fast Supes but I think he has enough skill and combat experience to help him.
Plus I feel that Thor just will bring more firepower to the game. His enchanted hammer which Supes has a weakness to can be very helpful. As I think when Thor lands a blow it will be more destructive then if Supes does because Supes is only using his fists and Thor won't be anymore damaged because so.
His Hammer also allows for long range attacks teleportation and other various feats that will no doubt help.
Probably one of its biggest features though is its ability to absorb energy making Supes a one dimensional fighter which makes him alot more predictable in this fight a great advantage for Thor.
Originally posted by batdude123
Exactly. Superman's fighting speed is faster than how normally Thor fights in close range. Superman's got the shakes that will make him quake, he's got the fries that'll cross Thor's eye, and he's got the burgers that'll... well, he's just got burgers. 😆
Lol 😆 Just don't mention Superman's buns
Originally posted by newjak86
I've also been pondering on this realistically though I think the slight edge has to go to Thor.
Well written he seems very versatile and not some dumb blond that swings a hammer. He may not be as fast Supes but I think he has enough skill and combat experience to help him.
Plus I feel that Thor just will bring more firepower to the game. His enchanted hammer which Supes has a weakness to can be very helpful. As I think when Thor lands a blow it will be more destructive then if Supes does because Supes is only using his fists and Thor won't be anymore damaged because so.
His Hammer also allows for long range attacks teleportation and other various feats that will no doubt help.
Probably one of its biggest features though is its ability to absorb energy making Supes a one dimensional fighter which makes him alot more predictable in this fight a great advantage for Thor.
Very good points. That'll work if Superman goes toe to toe with him. But if he uses he's quickness advantage over Thor, then I think he'd end up winning this fight. Even if Thor tries to hit him with the hammer something, Superman could just vibrate intangible or invisible to mess up Thor and such.
Originally posted by batdude123Possible and something I've slao wondered but as stated before altough Thor has missed Sliver Surfer he was still able to track him and such I doubt those tricks would help Supes here while he will still have a speed advantage without a doubt I think Thor's skill will help him keep it in check not completely but maybe enough. Match that with Thor's other powers and ability to nullify all of Supes long range attacks I see Thor taking anywhere from 6 to 7/10 times maybe. 😛
Very good points. That'll work if Superman goes toe to toe with him. But if he uses he's quickness advantage over Thor, then I think he'd end up winning this fight. Even if Thor tries to hit him with the hammer something, Superman could just vibrate intangible or invisible to mess up Thor and such.
Thor will f**k superman up like any other god or being that is more powerful than superman. Orion, Darkseid, Thor, Beta Ray BIll, Sersi, Ikaris, Gladiator etc will kill superman bottom line, including Thor who would go all out and blast superman with the puriest of lighting bolt that is 100x more more powerful than a regular lighting bolt.
Originally posted by newjak86
Possible and something I've slao wondered but as stated before altough Thor has missed Sliver Surfer he was still able to track him and such I doubt those tricks would help Supes here while he will still have a speed advantage without a doubt I think Thor's skill will help him keep it in check not completely but maybe enough. Match that with Thor's other powers and ability to nullify all of Supes long range attacks I see Thor taking anywhere from 6 to 7/10 times maybe. 😛
How would Thor's attacks affect him if he's intangible??? He could seriously vibrate his fist into Thor's body and pull out his heart. Don't think that Superman is too one dimensional. He's done some CRAZY feats with his laser vision.
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5001/supes8cz.jpg
Originally posted by the Darkone
Thor will f**k superman up like any other god or being that is more powerful than superman. Orion, Darkseid, Thor, Beta Ray BIll, Sersi, Ikaris, Gladiator etc will kill superman bottom line, including Thor who would go all out and blast superman with the puriest of lighting bolt that is 100x more more powerful than a regular lighting bolt.
Gladiator would defeat Superman??? 😆 Gladiator is just marvel's cheap knock-off version of Superman.
Originally posted by batdude123
How would Thor's attacks affect him if he's intangible??? He could seriously vibrate his fist into Thor's body and pull out his heart. Don't think that Superman is too one dimensional. He's done some CRAZY feats with his laser vision.http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5001/supes8cz.jpg
Okay, the last two scans aren't working. They were working on the Superman Respect Thread. Here it is, all the laser vision information that you could want or need right here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f48/t371890.html
Originally posted by batdude123Thor's attacks will probably effect him just becuase his hammer is mystical in nature which Supes has a weakness to. Secondly it doesn't matter what Supes heat vision has done Thor's hammer can aborb energy attacks so Supes is basically one demensional in this fight relying solely on Spped and Strength to help him when this in which he really only has a good advantage in speed and maybe a lsight advantage in strength and Thor is much more skilled in H2H combat.
How would Thor's attacks affect him if he's intangible??? He could seriously vibrate his fist into Thor's body and pull out his heart. Don't think that Superman is too one dimensional. He's done some CRAZY feats with his laser vision.http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5001/supes8cz.jpg
Originally posted by newjak86
Thor's attacks will probably effect him just becuase his hammer is mystical in nature which Supes has a weakness to. Secondly it doesn't matter what Supes heat vision has done Thor's hammer can aborb energy attacks so Supes is basically one demensional in this fight relying solely on Spped and Strength to help him when this in which he really only has a good advantage in speed and maybe a lsight advantage in strength and Thor is much more skilled in H2H combat.
Not saying Thor wins these outright just saying that he has the slight edge if you ask me.
Why couldn't Superman just dance around him like this: http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9203/pics0017bn.jpg
And while doing that, just keep zapping Thor with his heat vision. If your arguement is just that Thor's hammer can absorb it, well, then it's flawed if you ask me. While dancing around Thor so fast that he couldn't even see him, how would he be able to block the laser vision with Mjolnir at every angle almost all at once???
Originally posted by batdude123Thor has fought Silver Surfer before you got to think Superman isn't that much faster than everyone he meets. Thor while not as fast is probably fast enough to help him see Supes alot better than you think. Thor would not be in slow motion for Supes.
Why couldn't Superman just dance around him like this: http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9203/pics0017bn.jpgAnd while doing that, just keep zapping Thor with his heat vision. If your arguement is just that Thor's hammer can absorb it, well, then it's flawed if you ask me. While dancing around Thor so fast that he couldn't even see him, how would he be able to block the laser vision with Mjolnir at every angle almost all at once???
Originally posted by Accel
I’m also not sure who would win here, but I just have to comment on a few of those moments there. First off, it was Eric Masterson Thor (aka Thor II) that Spider-Man made a fool out of. He had the power of Thor, but none of the experience and no knowledge of how to use it.Also, I think some people are over-analyzing the Mongoose incident. In the scans where Mongoose runs around Thor, it doesn’t really look like Thor is even TRYING to hit him (no swinging his fists/hammer). Also, considering Thor’s easily blocked bullets and artillery fire (EASILY faster than Spider-Man) and shown he could swing his hammer at twice the speed of light, I would consider it PIS if Thor couldn’t lay a hand on someone like Mongoose. It reminds me of when Wonder Woman had trouble with Deathstroke (where it was stated that Deathstroke was quicker than her, despite her speed feats keeping up with Superman and Jesse Quick).
And even though Thor may have missed the Surfer when throwing his hammer before, he has smacked a pissed-off Surfer away when he flew up close. Considering Norrin’s speed (and he was flying in a straight line) I’d say that’s an impressive reflex feat.
true, it was masterson, but i'm not sure the "he had thor's power but didn't know how to use it" argument holds in this case. not knowing how to use speed is like not knowing how to use strength. you see something, you hit it, there may be a skill issue in question, but were he truly fast enough to hit him, he should have been able to do so, regardless of his inexperience.
the spinning the hammer issue has always confused me. i'm not sure why being able to whirl the hammer for a time and have it reach uber speeds should be taken as an example that thor himself has superspeed. i can throw a baseball 75mph but i can't run that fast. not a perfect example, but you get my meaning. as for blocking artillery -- thor as often spins FIRST before the artillery is fired (and WHY bother if his durability is so high??). spinning his hammer is not instantaneous. that's exactly why i think mongoose could lay him out -- he attacked thor BEFORE thor was in a position to spin and defend. not that spinning would mean much against supes who could just as easily get behind him. (that's why, imo, supes' vision may be effective even though thor DOES spin his hammer.)
as for not trying to atack mongoose -- i'm not so sure. he raised his hammer a couple times then dropped it. to me it showed he was incapable of striking mongoose, not 'not trying', to strike him. in the past, quicksilver has ALSO moved around thor in a similar way. i'd be willing to pass off on the mongoose thing as pis, but it did happen twice, AND as we can see, thor's showings against speed based characters have been . . . dubious at best.
as for ss -- i'll never buy the fact that ss has demonstrated great combat speed. in countles threads there have been VERY few examples of it. once he gets in close, he fights like glads. the eat you raised was a good one, but hitting someone coming in a straight line (even so fast)is vastly different from figthing someone in close quarters who demonstrates speeds well in excess of both spidey and mongoose. glads remains the closest example, but instead of JUST blitzing (as he did in thor 33 (??) and in that galacticstorm issue), supes would continue to use his speed in the fight.
thor's skill and power could counter the speed sometimes, but as i said, that's why i give the slight majority to superman.
