Originally posted by h1a8Just entertaining this for a second, why wouldn't Thor just will it to strike Superman in the back while Superman is engaging him?
That's when being thrown, not when getting it knocked away.I agree and know that Mjolnir can do this, still based off will though. The problem is that Thor won't be able to catch the hammer due to be stunned, even if we do entertain that Thor's hammer can come back when stunned.
People who think Thor will win must think that Superman is slow as hell (somewhere near Thor's level or something).
That is the main problem here.
Lastly,
You all know Thor's main weakness is the lack of his hammer right?
This can be easily arranged if Superman wanted to play around with Thor.
Superman wins a slight majority
^ No. We just wonder how you think that Thor with his proven combat speed reflexes, is completely overwhelmed by Superman's combat superspeed. AND how Superman deals with Thor's/Mjolnir's magic... at all.
Lastly, did you know that Thor has some of his most impressive combat/pure power feats when he lacks Mjolnir?
Thor wins the majority. More than slight.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ No. We just wonder how you think that Thor with his proven combat speed reflexes, is completely overwhelmed by Superman's combat superspeed. AND how Superman deals with Thor's/Mjolnir's magic... at all.Lastly, did you know that Thor has some of his most impressive combat/pure power feats when he lacks Mjolnir?
Thor wins the majority. More than slight.
Now you guys don't get me started. I'm trying to be respectful to Thor fans here. I really feel Superman takes a lot of wins here but willing to settle with a slight majority.
First of all, Superman will move so fast that he can pop Thor before Thor can even flinch. After the first hit, Superman will easily combo him to ko. All of Thor's magic and powers will not even get a chance to be used here. Although I don't take as canon, in the Avengers crossover Superman was shown to one shot Thor (didn't need a combo). In a writer's interview, D. Jurgens said that Superman is far stronger than Thor or Hulk.
Even if Superman didn't want to hit Thor, I see no way of Thor even hitting Superman. Especially knowing that Superman can easily vibrate through all of Thor's attacks, instant appear behind him, knock his hammer away, etc.
I guess people think Superman will fight like an idiot and stand there and not use his speed or stand there and let Thor hit him.
Originally posted by h1a8
Now you guys don't get me started. I'm trying to be respectful to Thor fans here. I really feel Superman takes a lot of wins here but willing to settle with a slight majority.First of all, Superman will move so fast that he can pop Thor before Thor can even flinch. After the first hit, Superman will easily combo him to ko. All of Thor's magic and powers will not even get a chance to be used here. Although I don't take as canon, in the Avengers crossover Superman was shown to one shot Thor (didn't need a combo). In a writer's interview, D. Jurgens said that Superman is far stronger than Thor or Hulk.
Even if Superman didn't want to hit Thor, I see no way of Thor even hitting Superman. Especially knowing that Superman can easily vibrate through all of Thor's attacks, instant appear behind him, knock his hammer away, etc.
I guess people think Superman will fight like an idiot and stand there and not use his speed or stand there and let Thor hit him.
I think what you're doing here (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is assuming Superman will be operating at his absolute very best and assuming Thor will be operating at his marginal best. That's the only way your scenario will come to fruition here, imo. Even those who agree that Superman would win (Omega Vision for example) claim it's a very slight thing, and even die-hard Thor fans (like myself) will go as far as to say it's a very close thing.
If you are taking both characters total powers/skills/abilities/etc at optimal levels, I just don't see how you can claim Superman's speed is so far beyond Thor he can't react period. Even when Superman is fighting at his hardest, the way he fights (character and fighting style is still taken into effect, other wise you're just debating power sets against power sets instead of Character A vs. Character B) does not make him impossible to being hit by people with reflexes argueably lower than that of someone of Thor's caliber.
And like others have pointed out, when Thor wants Mjolnir to return, it's going to happen and probably clock Superman on the return path. Superman can attempt to swat the hammer away, but he's more likely to be struck in the process on the attempt, and as a result leave himself open to a melee attack from Thor or even one of his other powers.
But again, this is all my opinion.
Originally posted by h1a8Don't care if you're trying to do anything. Your conclusions are unsupported.
Now you guys don't get me started. I'm trying to be respectful to Thor fans here. I really feel Superman takes a lot of wins here but willing to settle with a slight majority.First of all, Superman will move so fast that he can pop Thor before Thor can even flinch. After the first hit, Superman will easily combo him to ko. All of Thor's magic and powers will not even get a chance to be used here. Although I don't take as canon, in the Avengers crossover Superman was shown to one shot Thor (didn't need a combo). In a writer's interview, D. Jurgens said that Superman is far stronger than Thor or Hulk.
Thor has reacted to superspeed AND lightspeed before. Specifically in a defensive manner. Newsflash. Also, although you pretend that you don't consider JLA/Avengers as canon, you still can't help but bring it up. Bottom-line: Nobody gives a flying shit about JLA/Avengers. So stop wasting electrons about it.
Originally posted by h1a8Superman can't be hit? Contrary to Superman's entire career where 99.99999999999% of the time, he gets clocked by people without superspeed? We don't deal with your fantasies about comic characters. We deal with the comic characters.
Even if Superman didn't want to hit Thor, I see no way of Thor even hitting Superman. Especially knowing that Superman can easily vibrate through all of Thor's attacks, instant appear behind him, knock his hammer away, etc.I guess people think Superman will fight like an idiot and stand there and not use his speed or stand there and let Thor hit him.
I guess you think Thor doesn't use his proven combat reflexes at all and stands there or that Superman develops some immunity to magic.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Without getting into the vs Thor part of the debate, this is a tough call to make given the forum rules like this;
Superman can't be hit? Contrary to Superman's entire career where 99.99999999999% of the time, he gets clocked by people without superspeed? We don't deal with your fantasies about comic characters. We deal with the comic characters.
For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
Certainly applies to a ridiculous amount of Superman's showings as well, since we know he can and does these things. Particularly against non-speedsters.
I think this here (taken from OneDumbG0's great Thor respect thread) should hopefully show you that Thor has the reflexes required to tag Superman and defend against him.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed06JIM125.jpg
Heimdall's senses are pretty absurd in of themselves, and that's just one showing of Thor's reflexes and speed. He's shown he has the means to react to something as fast as Superman. The respect thread is full of scans, from his early years to current.
Originally posted by JuntaiThis is also taken from the rules: "It ALL comes down to the CHARACTER, not the POWERSET."
Without getting into the vs Thor part of the debate, this is a tough call to make given the forum rules like this;[b]For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
Certainly applies to a ridiculous amount of Superman's showings as well, since we know he can and does these things. Particularly against non-speedsters. [/B]
Also divorcing myself from whether Thor can react to superspeed (which he obviously can and has done), show me that Superman is prone to use blazing superspeed at the start of his battles.
Without proof of this, suggesting Superman would do this is about as nonsensical as suggesting that Thor uses all his immortal energies for a magical omniblast at the beginning of his battles against Superman instantly or as soon as he starts getting hit by Superman.
