Originally posted by OneDumbG0Once again, I wasn't applying it to versus Thor, but towards your comment that Superman gets tagged 99.999999999% against non-speedsters.
This is also taken from the rules: "It ALL comes down to the CHARACTER, not the POWERSET."Also divorcing myself from whether Thor can react to superspeed (which he obviously can and has done), show me that Superman is prone to use blazing superspeed at the start of his battles.
Without proof of this, suggesting Superman would do this is about as nonsensical as suggesting that Thor uses all his immortal energies for an omniblast at the beginning of his battles against Superman.
I'll take it as a concession since you already sidestepped the point.
^ My point about Superman getting tagged by 99.9999999% throughout his career is to blunt any obnoxious notion that Superman can only be tagged with superspeed attacks because its his character to dodge anything that isn't superspeed.
Thus, your comment is utterly inapposite. Sorry if I assumed you had a point.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Reacting to superspeed doesn't prove he can react to Superman's speed nor his attacks. Thor needs to be able to react more than a just a beam sent at him from more than 15ft away. He needs to be able to react to MULTIPLE ftl attacks from up CLOSE. For example, I a former division I baseball player can react to a 90mph baseball from 60ft away. But that doesn't mean I can react to many of them coming at me from 3 feet away from different angles.
Don't care if you're trying to do anything. Your conclusions are unsupported.Thor has reacted to superspeed AND lightspeed before. Specifically in a defensive manner.
Newsflash. Also, although you pretend that you don't consider JLA/Avengers as canon, you still can't help but bring it up. Bottom-line: Nobody gives a flying shit about JLA/Avengers.If that is the case consider it dropped. Didn't know if you were someone who accept it as canon. So stop wasting electrons about it.
Superman can't be hit? Contrary to Superman's entire career where 99.99999999999% of the time, he gets clocked by people without superspeed? We don't deal with your fantasies about comic characters. We deal with the comic characters.This is a forum fight not a comic one. Superman has been hit when not using his speed and not hit when using his speed. In this fight he will use his best speeds as previously shown as forum rules suggest.
Also if your argument is that Superman can't be hit then you are contradicting yourself as to Thor being able to react to lightspeed attacks when 99.999999999999% of the time he doesn't. Even spider-man has embarrassed him momentarily.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Once again, it's completely viable, because he can and has done it. It's even in the rules that it's viable as such.
^ My point about Superman getting tagged by 99.9999999% throughout his career is to blunt any obnoxious notion that Superman can only be tagged with superspeed attacks because its his character to dodge anything that isn't superspeed.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think this here (taken from OneDumbG0's great Thor respect thread) should hopefully show you that Thor has the reflexes required to tag Superman and defend against him.http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed06JIM125.jpg
Heimdall's senses are pretty absurd in of themselves, and that's just one showing of Thor's reflexes and speed. He's shown he has the means to react to something as fast as Superman. The respect thread is full of scans, from his early years to current.
A bullet is to fast for the eye to follow, Spider-man is, Wolverine has been, etc.
No one is disputing that Thor has superspeed or super reflexes. He just don't have enough of them to prevent himself from being comboed to ko by a SUPERMAN.
^ Prove that being able to react/defend against lightspeed attacks isn't enough against Superman.
Originally posted by JuntaiBut it's not his character to do it. So it's not viable. Read the rules again. Or show me several instances where Superman uses blazing superspeed right at the outset.
Once again, it's completely viable, because he can and has done it.
Flash doesn't dodge everything either in comics, I've seen him hit by Batman and shot in the leg with an arrow midrun. Do you believe in a forum setting this would play out like this?
Batman has tagged almost every superspeedster in comics at one point or another. Does he have that level of speed and reaction on the forum? It's certainly in his printed character.
It is Flash's character to use blazing superspeed right at the outset. So relying on Flash is utterly inconsequential when it comes to Superman.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So if Superman uses his best speed, than Thor will likewise use his best combat reflexes and reaction time, correct?
Of course. But it is not enough to prove he can stop ftl speed attacks from CLOSE range and MULTIPLE of them from different angles (behind him and such).
Originally posted by h1a8
A bullet is to fast for the eye to follow, Spider-man is, Wolverine has been, etc.No one is disputing that Thor has superspeed or super reflexes. He just don't have enough of them to prevent himself from being comboed to ko by a SUPERMAN.
Moving fast is one thing, moving too fast for the human eye to follow is another.
Moving too fast for Heimdall to follow is something else entirely.
I think you're once more comparing Superman's power set against Thor's instead of the characters themselves.
Either that, or you're describing what YOU would do if you possessed Superman's powers and fought against Thor.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Once again, you're conflating other arguments and mine. I never suggested 'outset' of the battle, or a comparison to Thor anywhere. I was pointing out the flawed logic that since Superman doesn't dodge '99.99999999 of non speedsters' in the comics that he can't do so on the forum. It is viable, because there is proof he possesses that level speed, as the rule suggests.
But it's not his character to do it. So it's not viable. Read the rules again. Or show me several instances where Superman uses blazing superspeed right at the outset.
^ Nobody ever suggested that he couldn't dodge more than .00000001% of his attacks. So you didn't make any point to refute/rebut me, yet you quoted me. It's not my fault that you went on some inapposite tangent to the conversation that was taking place. Though, I guess it's my fault for assuming that you would make a point. There is proof that Thor also possesses that power. Nobody has suggested that it's viable that Thor omniblasts all over the place. Why? Cause just because he can, it's not his character and it'd be stupid to think otherwise.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Not a tangent.. I directly addressed a specific point you attempted to make, I made that much clear in my initial post and you've been completely backtracked since. I'll take it as concession.
^ Nobody ever suggested that he couldn't dodge more than .00000001% of his attacks. So you didn't make any point to refute/rebut me, yet you quoted me. It's not my fault that you went on some inapposite tangent to the conversation that was taking place. Though, I guess it's my fault for assuming that you would make a point. There is proof that Thor also possesses that power. Nobody has suggested that it's viable that Thor omniblasts all over the place. Why? Cause just because he can, it's not his character and it'd be stupid to think otherwise.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0You mean prove that "being able to react/defend against lightspeed attacks from MORE THAN 15FT AWAY isn't enough against Superman."
^ Prove that being able to react/defend against lightspeed attacks isn't enough against Superman.
PROOF:
Reacting on a single attack from 15ft away takes X time. But reacting to the same speed attack from 5ft away takes X/3 time. So if one uses X time to react to the attack from 5ft away then they will not succeed since X>X/3.
Also reacting to a single attack doesn't mean than one can react to multiple attacks from different angles and such.
Good point. But Superman has several times used his blazing speed right at the outset. Look at the Lois gunshot feat. Even so it is proven that he used his speed multiple times to avoid being hit. Thus it is in his character.
But it's not his character to do it. So it's not viable. Read the rules again. Or show me several instances where Superman uses blazing superspeed right at the outset.
Most people here don't quite understand 'In character' actually means. It means that a character will do anything that doesn't contradict their intelligence or well known reasons for doing something. It is clear that Superman is not only genius level but he has shown to do such things before (statistics don't matter).
^ 😂
Originally posted by h1a8Even in granting your premise as applying to this situation, the standard rules do not have Superman and Thor standing 5 ft away from each other. Otherwise, figure out what you're trying to say.
You mean prove that "being able to react/defend against lightspeed attacks from MORE THAN 15FT AWAY isn't enough against Superman."PROOF:
Reacting on a single attack from 15ft away takes X time. But reacting to the same speed attack from 5ft away takes X/3 time. So if one uses X time to react to the attack from 5ft away then they will not succeed since X>X/3.
Originally posted by h1a8Thor has reacted to multiple attacks from different angles and such.
Also reacting to a single attack doesn't mean than one can react to multiple attacks from different angles and such.Good point. But Superman has several times used his blazing speed right at the outset. Look at the Lois gunshot feat. Even so it is proven that he used his speed multiple times to avoid being hit. Thus it is in his character.
Most people here don't quite understand 'In character' actually means. It means that a character will do anything that doesn't contradict their intelligence or well known reasons for doing something. It is clear that Superman is not only genius level but he has shown to do such things before (statistics don't matter).
Saving someone from a gunshot is different from engaging a thunder god. I could also show you where Superman was too slow in reacting and let people die from being shot. So now you're 50/50 at best even when I grant that you could conflate the two.
Character is character. Otherwise Thor uses magical omniblast instantly at the outset of battle and Superman loses.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0So it's your stance that a non speedster can and will land 99.999999999% of attacks on Superman in the forum setting?
^ Nobody ever suggested Superman couldn't dodge more than .0000001% of the attacks that would land on him. Look at what you quoted and the context in which it was quoted before straw-manning me.
That's where the comparison to Flash comes in, because the bulk of Flash's rogues gallery are non-speedsters, and manage to tag him. He gets tagged almost every issue of JLA he appears in. Is he somehow not able to dodge them either, because he doesn't always in the comics when as the rules suggest- it's viable that he does, because he has proven that level of speed?
Superman can move at greater speeds than many non-speedster's can even plausibly perceive.
