Spider-Man vs. Captain America h2h only

Originally posted by h1a8
Fights hold no water in general.
If that is the case then hundreds of fights would be valid, like SM beating Firelord.

So in a comic book forum we're not allowed to use the on-panel feats? Question for you, are you using the bios then as the base assumption for a characters capabilities?

Because without characters doing things that characters do as often as the characters do them how then are we to establish what a character is capable of for making a comparison? Because certainly if "Fights hold no water" then wouldn't that include those of Spider-Man versus his own villians? or do we selectively discard fights at your descretion in a very surpressed evidence kind of fallacy?

Originally posted by h1a8
Fights hold no water in general.

Obvoulsy that depends.

Originally posted by h1a8

If that is the case then hundreds of fights would be valid, like SM beating Firelord.

Er no please use some commone sense. Firelord is a COSMIC SUPERHERO. So therefore Firelord >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spiderman. Get it?

This does not apply to Cap and Spiderman.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You have the line "the vulcan data" under your name, yet you say things as illogical as a sweeping generalization that's a gross misinterpritation of one of the rules?

So in a comic book forum we're not allowed to use the on-panel feats? Question for you, are you using the bios then as the base assumption for a characters capabilities?

Because without characters doing things that characters do as often as the characters do them how then are we to establish what a character is capable of for making a comparison? Because certainly if "Fights hold no water" then wouldn't that include those of Spider-Man versus his own villians? or do we selectively discard fights at your descretion in a very surpressed evidence kind of fallacy?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Er no please use some commone sense. Firelord is a COSMIC SUPERHERO. So therefore Firelord >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spiderman. Get it?

This does not apply to Cap and Spiderman.

yes it does. Someone who can dodge bullets and have a precog that not only warns them of pre-danger but guides their body out of the way should never get hit by a peak human. I don't care what you or any one says. For this is the truth.

Originally posted by h1a8
yes it does. Someone who can dodge bullets and have a precog that not only warns them of pre-danger but guides their body out of the way should never get hit by a peak human. I don't care what you or any one says. For this is the truth.

But do you see the problem here? Cap can dodge bullets as well........they have similar reflexes thats what you seem to have problem comprehending.

Also his spider sense is not perfect it can tell him to dodge a blow but it cant tell him if he dodges a blow that its a trap thats going to make him get hit by another move. The spider sense works 1 split second before it doesnt tell you whats going to happen 2 or 3 seconds into the future.

🙁

If one was to watch, in slow motion, Cap striking SM in their past battles then we would say "Where is spidey's spider-sense? Why didn't it warn him before CA started to swing? SM had no problems when he was previously distracted and people shot bullets at him from behind."

They then come to the conclusion that the fight was B.S. and invalid to what will really happen.

Originally posted by h1a8
If one was to watch, in slow motion, Cap striking SM in their past battles then we would say "Where is spidey's spider-sense? Why didn't it warn him before CA started to swing? SM had no problems when he was previously distracted and people shot bullets at him from behind."

They then come to the conclusion that the fight was B.S. and invalid to what will really happen.

Let me explain again.

1. Cap sees thing in slow motion and can dodge bullets like Spiderman.
2. The spider sense can be tricked it only warns you 1 split second before...it does not give you detailed information get it? For example it doesnt warn him that if he ducks a punch that he will walk into another punch it will just tell him to duck the punch.
3. Sometimes the spider sense warns him bt it does not tell him exactly whats going to happen all he knows is that there is danger.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
But do you see the problem here? Cap can dodge bullets as well........they have similar reflexes thats what you seem to have problem comprehending.

Also his spider sense is not perfect it can tell him to dodge a blow but it cant tell him if he dodges a blow that its a trap thats going to make him get hit by another move. The spider sense works 1 split second before it doesnt tell you whats going to happen 2 or 3 seconds into the future.

🙁

Did you see the fight? CA struck SM straight up (even from behind). There was no swing and trap? Even so, spidey is capable of dodging multiple machine gun fire, multiple laser shots, etc. How is a peak human going to trap him? And the 1 sec is enough to dodge lasers my friend. Do you know how far and fast SM can move in a second? He won't even be in the vicinity by the time the laser goes off.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Let me explain again.

1. Cap sees thing in slow motion and can dodge bullets like Spiderman.
2. The spider sense can be tricked it only warns you 1 split second before...it does not give you detailed information get it? For example it doesnt warn him that if he ducks a punch that he will walk into another punch it will just tell him to duck the punch.
3. Sometimes the spider sense warns him bt it does not tell him exactly whats going to happen all he knows is that there is danger.

My friend you should stop debating in SM threads as you know nothing of him. The SS not only warns him of danger but guides his body out of the danger. And that 1 sec warning is enough to dodge multiple bullets, lasers, and other attacks far faster than what CA can possibly throw.
And spidey has used the SS to not only dodge but block and catch super fast attacks. Multiple attacks are nothing to SM.

Originally posted by h1a8
That has nothing to do with Spidey getting hit. I'm analyzing this side before I make a judgement of the other side.

The point is that they both have similar speeds

Originally posted by h1a8

Did you see the fight? CA struck SM straight up (even from behind). There was no swing and trap? Even so, spidey is capable of dodging multiple machine gun fire, multiple laser shots, etc. How is a peak human going to trap him? And the 1 sec is enough to dodge lasers my friend. Do you know how far and fast SM can move in a second? He won't even be in the vicinity by the time the laser goes off.

Thats exactly what im talking about! Cap threw his shield at Spiderman and Spiderman sense kicked in. As far as Spiderman is concerned his sense is warning him about the shield, when in fact the real danger is that it was a trap, so that Spiderman would leave himself exposed. Spiderman couldnt dodge Cap because he was busy webbing up his shield.

How is supposed to antcipate the attack when he doesnt know what the attack is?

That exactly what im talking about lasers just go in one direction, its alot more compliacted when you are fighting somebody who has similar speed and is more intelligent because the spidersense can be tricked. Again try to comprehend this Spiderman senses tells him 1 split second before it does not tell him if he dodges 1 punch that its a trap thats going to make him walk into another one...get it?

Hell how is Spiderman going to defend himself if he goes on the offensive? If he trys to throw a punch and he gets punched in the face theres nothing he can do about it because hes commited himself.

Originally posted by h1a8
If one was to watch, in slow motion, Cap striking SM in their past battles then we would say "Where is spidey's spider-sense? Why didn't it warn him before CA started to swing? SM had no problems when he was previously distracted and people shot bullets at him from behind."

They then come to the conclusion that the fight was B.S. and invalid to what will really happen.

Agreed. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
But do you see the problem here? Cap can dodge bullets as well........they have similar reflexes thats what you seem to have problem comprehending.

What! Do you even know how fast a spider's (the insect) reflexes is? They can attack their prey in a matter of seconds. Spider-Man is the man size equivalent of a spider in every way. Cap's reflexes is nowhere near the level of Spidey.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Also his spider sense is not perfect it can tell him to dodge a blow but it cant tell him if he dodges a blow that its a trap thats going to make him get hit by another move. The spider sense works 1 split second before it doesnt tell you whats going to happen 2 or 3 seconds into the future.

Wrong. It would let him know of any kind of potential danger. No matter if it's hidden or insight. Any punch or kick, no matter if it's a fake or not would set off his spider-sense. It's pis and it doesn't make any sense. You can't fake his spider-sense with attack and then come with another attack that's really aimed to hurt him. Spidey would detect that as well.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Agreed. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

What! Do you even know how fast a spider's (the insect) reflexes is? They can attack their prey in a matter of seconds. Spider-Man is the man size equivalent of a spider in every way. Cap's reflexes is nowhere near the level of Spidey.

For the love of god look at Captain Americas speed feats they are similar to Spidermans.

Originally posted by Marvelknight

Wrong. It would let him know of any kind of potential danger. No matter if it's hidden or insight. Any punch or kick, no matter if it's a fake or not would set off his spider-sense. It's pis and it doesn't make any sense. You can't fake his spider-sense with attack and then come with another attack that's really aimed to hurt him. Spidey would detect that as well.

Let me explain. Cap throws a punch....a real punch, Spiderman gets warned and ducks, but what the Spider sense does not tell him is that if he ducks hes going to walk into another punch because that is 2 seconds into the future not 1. Even if it manages to warn him is too late because he already started moving his body towards the other punch and cant move away.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Lol, "better" durability, "slight" speed advantage? Yeah, Ok. Prove it.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1888/captainamerica403manandew6.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2549/captainamerica403manandbb3.jpg
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3735/captainamerica403manandlu0.jpg

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The point is that they both have similar speeds

Thats exactly what im talking about! Cap threw his shield at Spiderman and Spiderman sense kicked in. As far as Spiderman is concerned his sense is warning him about the shield, when in fact the real danger is that it was a trap, so that Spiderman would leave himself exposed. Spiderman couldnt dodge Cap because he was busy webbing up his shield.

How is supposed to antcipate the attack when he doesnt know what the attack is?

That exactly what im talking about lasers just go in one direction, its alot more compliacted when you are fighting somebody who has similar speed and is more intelligent because the spidersense can be tricked. Hell how is Spiderman going to defend himself if he goes on the offensive? If he trys to throw a punch and he gets punched in the face theres nothing he can do because hes commited hismelf.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
For the love of god look at Captain Americas speed feats they are similar to Spidermans.

Let me explain. Cap throws a punch....a real punch, Spiderman gets warned and ducks, but what the Spider sense does not tell him is that if he ducks hes going to walk into another punch because that is 2 seconds into the future not 1. Even if it manages to warn him is too late because he already started moving his body towards the other punch and cant move away.

No, you really don't understand just how fast Spidey is. If four people with guns can't hit Spidey from different sides of him. What makes you think that it's not pis for Cap (if he can) to pull off a stunt like that. Shooting guns>>>>>>>>throwing fists, unless you are The Flash.

Originally posted by h1a8
That doesn't show how SM gets hit. Stop arguing moot point and argue how SM gets hit.

*sigh*

Originally posted by h1a8

Again SM can dodge bullets from behind while preoccupied or distracted.

Why dont you read what I said and comprehend it. The example you gave me doesnt even fit the example ive given. He may have dodged bullets while he was distracted but the SS gave him knowledge that bullets were coming...all he had to do was duck.

The difference is that the SS does not give him knowledge in detail. it didnt tell him that if he webs up the shield he would exposed himself all it told him was that the shield was a danger and by the time Cap was behind it was too late. That information is too much detail for his SS.

Show me the examples of what he was doing when he was preoccupied? Because the fact of the matter is when Spiderman was webbing up his shield there was nothing he could do because he was in mid-air can Spiderman fly?

Originally posted by h1a8

The SS guides him.

Dindt you just hear what I said. It cant guide him if he doesnt know what the attack is. The SS does not give him detailed information just 1 second before.

Originally posted by h1a8

Like I said, SM has been distracted before and still was able to dodge a bullet that was shot from behind him.

He was able to dodge the bullet because he was warned its different if he doesnt even know whats going to happen.

Originally posted by h1a8

And he has dodged multiple attacks far faster than what CA throws coming at him from all angles.

Yeah and none of those people have the reflexes that Cap has or have studied Spiderman because if they had they would be able to trick his spidersense. hell the Punisher shot Spiderman...how did he do it ebcause he studied him too death and waited for him to jump in mid-air.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
No, you really don't understand just how fast Spidey is. If four people with guns can't hit Spidey from different sides of him. What makes you think that it's not pis for Cap (if he can) to pull off a stunt like that. Shooting guns>>>>>>>>throwing fists, unless you are The Flash.

1. Cap has similar reflexes.
2. He can trick him, his SS does not warn him of everything

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Let me explain. Cap throws a punch....a real punch, Spiderman gets warned and ducks, but what the Spider sense does not tell him is that if he ducks hes going to walk into another punch because that is 2 seconds into the future not 1. Even if it manages to warn him is too late because he already started moving his body towards the other punch and cant move away.

And you don't understand is that the SS is constantly renewing itself. That is why he can dodge multiple machine gun fire for hours if he wants (and the bullets are at much shorter intervals than CA punches) along with simultaneously attacks as well. So while SM is ducking the first punch (he could easily catch it and break CA arm or wrist) his second SS kicks in and tells him a second attack is coming in the direction of his duck. Thus SM either dodges the other way (the same as if multiple bullets are coming from all angles) or he simply blocks or catches CA second attack.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You yourself already admitted the speed thing, but here are a couple of scans to show just how tough Cap's armor is...
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8609/avengersdisassembled06tlt5.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8636/avengersdisassembled06ttz2.jpg

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1888/captainamerica403manandew6.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2549/captainamerica403manandbb3.jpg
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3735/captainamerica403manandlu0.jpg

That doesn't prove that he is taking Spidey's powerful blows.

http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=goldstatue1wl.jpg

Spidey would kill Cap if he hit him with that same amount of force.

Originally posted by h1a8
Spidey can block and catch far faster attacks than what CA can throw (who says he has to dodge?). You're limiting SM here. SM is also one of the greatest counter attackers in history.

And you don't understand is that the SS is constantly renewing itself. That is why he can dodge multiple machine gun fire for hours if he wants (and the bullets are at much shorter intervals than CA punches) along with simultaneously attacks as well. So while SM is ducking the first punch (he could easily catch it and break CA arm or wrist) his second SS kicks in and tells him a second attack is coming in the direction of his duck. Thus SM either dodges the other way (the same as if multiple bullets are coming from all angles) or he simply blocks or catches CA second attack.

Did you know the Punsiher has shot Spiderman? Do you know how he did? He studied Spiderman and he tricked him. Those people who are shooting bullets are not as intelligent as Cap or Punisher and therefore it is easier for Spiderman to dodge.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
*sigh*

The difference is that the SS does not give him knowledge in detail. it didnt tell him that if he webs up the shield he would exposed himself all it told him was that the shield was a danger and by the time Cap was behind it was too late. That information is too much detail for his SS.

Show me the examples of what he was doing when he was preoccupied? Because the fact of the matter is when Spiderman was webbing up his shield there was nothing he could do because he was in mid-air can Spiderman fly?

Dindt you just hear what I said. It cant guide him if he doesnt know what the attack is. The SS does not give him detailed information just 1 second before.