Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Yoda had his lightsaber ripped out of his hand by ROTS Sidious. Yoda >>>>>>>>>> Luke. Luke cannot defend against the force lightning of the most powerful Sith Lord in history with his bare hands, unlike Yoda.Luke cannot defend against lightning, by ROTJ.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11'Course it was.
not exactly how it happened, it was a dinner double date, and after we all left and dispersed home. Stop jumping to conclusions and STFU
Why, exactly, would i tell a lie that makes me look like a loser?I give you Exhibit A:this is what puzzles me. You seem to want me not to be a loser so bad that you accuse me for lying on having a couple drinks on a dinner date, and then being an idiot online for it. I dont get it. Are you trying to make me out not to be a loser by accusing me of lying when i say something that seems to indicate that i am a loser? then thank you!
I was trying to err on the safeside and not insult you to the point of calling you a first grader. Maybe i even complemented you. Idont care.
Why would i lie to appear a drunkard idiot, as i said before? [/B]
Originally posted by Knightfall
actually, a freind wanted me to prove that it was better to teach the pigheaded and stupid than to ignore them and leave them to their own devices. all i have to do is send him this link where i acted pigheaded and stupid to frustrate someone and waste their time. I win that debate by losing this one. EASILY. Thank you. For the laugh, and the victory.
And you have never tooled me.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Yeah, but Luke is physically stronger than Yoda, who was holding his lightsaber in one hand. Whether Luke can block Sidious's lightning or not is debatable, but nay on your logic.
And since when was physical power beyond the abilities in the force? Darth Sidious was bigger and heavier than Yoda, but Yoda still broke the saberlocks with him. How? Who knows. But my point is, sometimes mastery of the force is sufficient to give one additional strength far, far beyond that of ROTJ Luke.
The only one who was capable of blocking Sidious' lightning with a saber is Windu; this is because of Vaapad's nature and it's superconducting loop feature, but it's also my personal opinion that Sidious stopped the lightning on purpose. The novel stated that Mace says that Sidious is too powerful for him; if that's the truth, then why would Sidious, who can use pain to gain additional dark side power, stop the assault? But this belongs on another thread.
Indeed, one could argue that Dooku's lightning was far less powerful than Sidious', but Luke's experience in dealing with such an attack, in additional to his blind rage, will result in an AOTC Anakin-like situation.
Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
And since when was physical power beyond the abilities in the force? Darth Sidious was bigger and heavier than Yoda, but Yoda still broke the saberlocks with him. How? Who knows. But my point is, sometimes mastery of the force is sufficient to give one additional strength far, far beyond that of ROTJ Luke.The only one who was capable of blocking Sidious' lightning with a saber is Windu; this is because of Vaapad's nature and it's superconducting loop feature, but it's also my personal opinion that Sidious stopped the lightning on purpose. The novel stated that Mace says that Sidious is too powerful for him; if that's the truth, then why would Sidious, who can use pain to gain additional dark side power, stop the assault? But this belongs on another thread.
Indeed, one could argue that Dooku's lightning was far less powerful than Sidious', but Luke's experience in dealing with such an attack, in additional to his blind rage, will result in an AOTC Anakin-like situation.
well lets not forget that Yoda jumped at Sidious when he shot his lightsaber out of his hand.. and weve already seen that when an opponent does a sudden jump or rush forwards is when FL is most effective.
whilst Mace was standing still and holding his ground while getting shot at, but it still looked like he was struggling to hold on to his weapon.
and yeah I find it hard to believe Yodas weaker than Mace or Luke because hes smaller. The Force will temporarily enhance his strength while fighting. Thats why he doesnt need his walking stick while fighting.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
well lets not forget that Yoda jumped at Sidious when he shot his lightsaber out of his hand.. and weve already seen that when an opponent does a sudden jump or rush forwards is when FL is most effective.whilst Mace was standing still and holding his ground while getting shot at, but it still looked like he was struggling to hold on to his weapon.
and yeah I find it hard to believe Yodas weaker than Mace or Luke because hes smaller. The Force will temporarily enhance his strength while fighting. Thats why he doesnt need his walking stick while fighting.
yoda uses ataru which gives him an agility boost, which is why he doesnt stay in saber locks for long. he has to keep jumping around to get leverage. physical strength is not yoda's forte
yeah but he can carry an X-Wing without much difficulty.. I know thats with the Force, but wnt those same Force powers enhance his strength in a fight??
Anakins sed to be the strongest and fastest jedi from the ROTS novel.. its obviously his natural force ability which enhances his strength and speed.. are u saying yoda cant do the same??
even Obi1 has Force Enhanced Strength. As far as I know its a basic Force Power
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
yeah but he can carry an X-Wing without much difficulty.. I know thats with the Force, but wnt those same Force powers enhance his strength in a fight??Anakins sed to be the strongest and fastest jedi from the ROTS novel.. its obviously his natural force ability which enhances his strength and speed.. are u saying yoda cant do the same??
even Obi1 has Force Enhanced Strength. As far as I know its a basic Force Power
1) do you have any proof that anything you can do with the force you can do with your hands through the force?
because if thats the case then nilius can carry a star destroyer with his hands.
2) anakin is the son of the force yoda is not. anakin has more midichlorians, yoda has less. its just fact.
3) anakin's focus is physical strength hence djemso. yoda uses ataro which is more acrobatic then strong.
Originally posted by Man of Christ
1) do you have any proof that anything you can do with the force you can do with your hands through the force?
because if thats the case then nilius can carry a star destroyer with his hands.
No, it doesn't work to the same extent; however, force powers, such as Yoda's highly mastered and refined force ability, can also be used to enhance physical attributes. In Anakin's case, it's enhanced strength... in Sidious' and Yoda's case, its enhanced speed... you see, there are many possibilities to use the force to enhance physical attributes.
Originally posted by Man of Christ
2) anakin is the son of the force yoda is not. anakin has more midichlorians, yoda has less. its just fact.
Then, if raw power > refined skill, then Anakin > Star Wars universe. No one can defeat him. Don't be a fool; skill and refinement is just as important, if not more so, than raw power. Remember Obi-Wan's statement from TPM, being shocked about him having more midichlorians than Yoda. By that logic, Yoda should be an extremely powerful Jedi. If you surpass him, people will be all "WTF?!" like in Anakin's case...
Yoda had over 800 years to train his force powers and refinement, while Anakin could only stalemate Obi-Wan- a being who had only average power, and who compesated with high skill and mastery. Now try to think what would happen in a force push contest between Anakin and Yoda. Yeah, you get the picture.
Originally posted by Man of Christ
3) anakin's focus is physical strength hence djemso. yoda uses ataro which is more acrobatic then strong.
But if Sidious shot lightning at Yoda, wouldn't he- logically- attempt to enhance his strength via the force in order to make himself stronger. Please. Use your logic... Yoda was defensing, no attacking. Strength is needed for that. And he already landed by the time Sidious shot the lightning- it wasn't in mid-air...
Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
No, it doesn't work to the same extent; however, force powers, such as Yoda's highly mastered and refined force ability, can also be used to enhance physical attributes. In Anakin's case, it's enhanced strength... in Sidious' and Yoda's case, its enhanced speed... you see, there are many possibilities to use the force to enhance physical attributes.Then, if raw power > refined skill, then Anakin > Star Wars universe. No one can defeat him. Don't be a fool; skill and refinement is just as important, if not more so, than raw power. Remember Obi-Wan's statement from TPM, being shocked about him having more midichlorians than Yoda. By that logic, Yoda should be an extremely powerful Jedi. If you surpass him, people will be all "WTF?!" like in Anakin's case...
Yoda had over 800 years to train his force powers and refinement, while Anakin could only stalemate Obi-Wan- a being who had only average power, and who compesated with high skill and mastery. Now try to think what would happen in a force push contest between Anakin and Yoda. Yeah, you get the picture.
But if Sidious shot lightning at Yoda, wouldn't he- logically- attempt to enhance his strength via the force in order to make himself stronger. Please. Use your logic... Yoda was defensing, no attacking. Strength is needed for that. And he already landed by the time Sidious shot the lightning- it wasn't in mid-air...
calm down theres no need to insult with statements like "dont be a fool" i assume you are a civilized individual.
now.
1)all i was stating was that what you can do with the force doesnt equal what you can do with force strength through my example.
2) of course yoda has had more training i was strictly speaking from a standpoint of force potetial, please stay on topic
3) yoda isnt that strong which is why he compensated with speed. in terms of physics, yoda is small therefore has less intertia which would mean he needs leverage attained through speed to compete with a juyo user like siddious
Originally posted by Man of Christ
calm down theres no need to insult with statements like "dont be a fool" i assume you are a civilized individual.now.
1)all i was stating was that what you can do with the force doesnt equal what you can do with force strength through my example.
2) of course yoda has had more training i was strictly speaking from a standpoint of force potetial, please stay on topic
3) yoda isnt that strong which is why he compensated with speed. in terms of physics, yoda is small therefore has less intertia which would mean he needs leverage attained through speed to compete with a juyo user like siddious
I wasn't insulting you, I was merely trying to make a point ^^.
Anyway. Yes, Yoda isn't particularly strong naturally, but due to his immense power in the force, he should be able to make up for it. That's it. Lolz. xD
But anyway, do we at least agree that an enraged Luke won't be able to block a lightning blast from Dooku?
Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
I wasn't insulting you, I was merely trying to make a point ^^.Anyway. Yes, Yoda isn't particularly strong naturally, but due to his immense power in the force, he should be able to make up for it. That's it. Lolz. xD
But anyway, do we at least agree that an enraged Luke won't be able to block a lightning blast from Dooku?
he probably wont block it but he will survive it, luke had such a higher resistance to lightening than his father
Originally posted by Man of Christ
he probably wont block it but he will survive it, luke had such a higher resistance to lightening than his father
Agreed. He will, indeed survive it, and his resistance is indeed beyond OT Vader (but Anakin as of AOTC? No way. Anakin's physical conditioning and training is faaaar beyond Luke), but he will be knocked out due to the force of the lightning, like Anakin.
But, regardless, Dooku still smashes him to pieces in both Force and Sabers. Smashes him to pieces WITH EASE. Luke, by his first incarnations, is not at all an impressive fighter.
Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Agreed. He will, indeed survive it, and his resistance is indeed beyond OT Vader (but Anakin as of AOTC? No way. Anakin's physical conditioning and training is faaaar beyond Luke), but he will be knocked out due to the force of the lightning, like Anakin.But, regardless, Dooku still smashes him to pieces in both Force and Sabers. Smashes him to pieces WITH EASE. Luke, by his first incarnations, is not at all an impressive fighter.
how much of this is due in your opinion to the lack of gci and coreography back then?
Originally posted by Man of Christ
how much of this is due in your opinion to the lack of gci and coreography back then?
The majority of it. Yes, I'll admit my opinions are often pro-PT because the OT fights were weaker, slower, and not choreographed well- but Dooku is simply a FAAAAAR more impressive fighter than Luke- someone who could've had his ass handed to him, by his own admission, by his cripple of a father. Luke had 3 years of training, little mastery of ANY lightsaber form... while Dooku was a Jedi for well over 50 years, with extreme experience, power, and knowledge. Yeah, Dooku is leagues above him.