Movie Version of Iron Man vs Movie Version of Starscream (Transformers)

Originally posted by Tenebrous
I'm not talking about the damage at all...I'm talking about iron man being unable to out-manouevre them. He had to use counter-measures instead of getting out of their tactical range...he could not out-fly the missile, and he wasn't faster than the jets...if he were, why did he purposely hang around and allow them to fire at him, then realize he needed countermeasures to have a comfortable chance of surviving the whole ordeal? basically, they were chasing him, and he couldn't escape.

"Avoiding combat" means escape, and he didn't do that, because he couldn't.

Now you're talking about Starscream? He easily overpowered 6 of those Raptors, several of them with "hand-to-hand" combat...he didn't even use any ordinance. And comparing cybertronian ordinance to U.S. military ordinance....well we all saw how worried tony was about those conventional missiles.

Tony has no chance.

Originally posted by complexbrother
oh and those weren't flares, they were his repulsor beams.

I dont think he used his repulsor beams in the movie. Even when he fought the Hulk buster Iron Man, he used flares. Here he even says it.

Also note that the regular shots from the f-22 had a part or his back smoking. I dont know if that was due to slight damage or smoke from heat. It happens right before he opens the flaps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6-h7pv0y08

Since Movie IM went through the jets effortlessly with no serious damage I think IM should be able to fly right through Starscream and kill him.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Since Movie IM went through the jets effortlessly with no serious damage I think IM should be able to fly right through Starscream and kill him.

🤨 Went throught the jets effortlessly? What do you mean? When he crashed into the one jet and took the wing off?

Both Autobots and Decepticons are more durable than the regular vehicle and or aircraft they simulate.

Starscream

He has a better name.

well i have weighed up all the factors and i have decided that overall the winner is ............................................................. Optimus prime

Originally posted by lordmohahat
well i have weighed up all the factors and i have decided that overall the winner is ............................................................. Optimus prime

I...........I.......... HATE......Optimus Prime!!!! I........HATE........him!😠

Originally posted by jrodslam
🤨 Went throught the jets effortlessly? What do you mean? When he crashed into the one jet and took the wing off?

Both Autobots and Decepticons are more durable than the regular vehicle and or aircraft they simulate.

Like he literally went through a jet effortlessly. He did go right through a jet mayy it be the wing or whatever (do the same to starscream). Effortlessly because going through the jet was accidental because the jet went into him.

They do seem to be more durable but can they stand up to Unibeams, repulsors, and that chest canon blast?

IM is also very durable, getting smashed around by the other suit def shows some durability even tho it did bust up his suit he was still alive and on the smaller battery to.

Still think IM takes it.

By the way Optimus Prime is pretty much the coolest name ever!!!

Originally posted by Evangel94
Well, Tony could have shot down those jets at any time if he really wanted to. Now because he didn't want to shoot them down, he spent his whole time running away from them while they shot at him both with missiles and guns.

MMM hmmm. Tony was actually HIT by some ordinance. Now you observe, he spent "his whole time running away from them"

Essentially, you confirm he couldn't escape by that statement right there. I'm not debating whether IM could have destroyed them if he intended to do so, that's the point that everyone gets hung up with.

The point is that to avoid confrontation...you run away from a fight Tony was unable to run away as you yourself stated he spent "his whole time running away from them".

I don't know what your definition of out-maneuvering them means, but doesn't the fact that Tony didn't get shot down (despite them trying to shoot him down) tell you he out-maneuvered them?

If he out-maneuvered them, he should never have been hit...but he was hit. Once by ordinance, and again when the force knocked him into the smaller wing of one of the raptors. So basically, he was hit twice, once by ordinance, and another time by the force of being driven back by the ordinance, and getting struck by the plane.

If he out-maneuvered them, then all of those situations should not come to pass. But they did. Since he was not looking for a fight, he should not be in a situation where he was vulnerable to their fire. He was.

Logically, why would he get hit by their ordinance, and be close enough to them to make physical contact with one of the planes......while he was trying to avoid fighting them. The only other explanation is that tony wanted to test the limits of the suit, and discovered he could not out run F22 raptors.

He even hung on the underbelly of one those planes without the pilots realizing it for a while. Wouldn't you call [b]that "out-maneuvering?" [/B]

Impressive, but you forget he did that after he realized he couldn't out-run the jets, and in fact were closing in on him.

Now the whole point of my post is that Starscream displayed exceptional maneuverability, far superior to normal pilots and that was stated in the movie.

Let's replicate the situation. Iron man is being chased by Starscream. Iron Man will get hit...as the air force raptors hit him. Tony was trying to escape, and could not. Cybertronian ordinance>>>US military ordinance. Tony was worried about 1 conventional missile, that is proved by his deployment of countermeasures since he could neither out-run the missile nor could he be confident that the suit would survive a direct impact.

Now suppose Iron Man is not being chased by starscream...but rather is chasing starscream. Iron man will not catch up to starscream. Proof: As mentioned above, Tony could not escape tactical range of the jets. So even if the Iron Man movie situation were reversed, and Iron Man was chasing the raptors instead of the raptors chasing him...see where I'm going?

***And this whole post doesn't even bring into play that Starscream can fly above the atmosphere, troposphere, etc. etc. into space while IM's armor has not been shown to do as such (regardless if IM solved the "icing problem" or not).***

Originally posted by Blight
Yeah I don't see not wanting to hurt the people inside of the jets as the same as not being able to defeat them.

Tony couldn't outrun the jets, and he got hit.

What is tony doing, hanging around and letting them shoot at him, so he can still be close enough to purposely save them later after he incapacitates the jets?

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Tony couldn't outrun the jets, and he got hit.

What is tony doing, hanging around and letting them shoot at him, so he can still be close enough to purposely save them later after he incapacitates the jets?

ok he couldn't out run them but he didn't want to hurt them so he pretty much had to sit there and take it. Until on of the jets accidently ran into him.

Anyway you know that stopping trick he did. You think he couldn't stop and shoot both planes in the rear sending them crashing down? Thats pretty much the standard way of taking down a air craft in air to air combat. Also couldn't IM fly with his back toward the ground and easily shoot back at the jets?

Starscream....

Unfortunately. 🙁.

I'm sorry but I dont consider the fact that during his 3rd flight ever, Tony had a hard time outmaneuvering experienced pilots in f22's. Tony was trying to get away from them, while on the phone, and was trying not to hurt them.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont think he used his repulsor beams in the movie. Even when he fought the Hulk buster Iron Man, he used flares. Here he even says it.

Also note that the regular shots from the f-22 had a part or his back smoking. I dont know if that was due to slight damage or smoke from heat. It happens right before he opens the flaps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6-h7pv0y08

Tony used flares on the other suit because he didn't have enough energy for his repulsor beam, but he did use them in the movie.

I would give it to Starscream because of his superior ability to absorb damage.

I'd give Tony the benefit of the doubt of having weaponry that can hurt Starscream but he took noticeable damage from the jet gunfire. With that, I'd give Starscream the benefit of the doubt on packing something stronger than that.

Originally posted by superchron
I'm sorry but I dont consider the fact that during his 3rd flight ever, Tony had a hard time outmaneuvering experienced pilots in f22's. Tony was trying to get away from them, while on the phone, and was trying not to hurt them.

you're still ignoring the fact that he got hit. Starscream>>>>>>experienced pilots in f22's. Cybetronian weaponry>>>>>air force weaponry

tony's 4th (presumably the 4th, which is this match) flight ever vs. Starscream, whose role in the decepticons is "air commander".

a bit more about starscream's weaponry.....several of starscream's missiles destroyed the legs of bumblebee

earlier in the film, the us airforce uses an AC-130 Spectre gunship against scroponok, if you remember. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC-130_Spectre
This is in addition to two A10 Thunderbolt air-to-ground fighters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II. Now if you recall these planes were just pummeling scorponok with many shots....the A10s alone are anti-tank planes....nevermind the huge AC-130 Spectre. After all those shots.....all they managed to do was break off the end of scorponok's tail. That gives everyone an idea about the durability of the decepticons when being shot at from the air. Now, keep in mind what i mentioned a bit earlier, a couple of starscream's missiles severed the legs of bumblebee, essentially damaging a transformer to a far higher degree than the air force did with two anti-tank planes and one huge aerial gunship.

now, tony was afrain of ONE missile from the F22.

it seems everyone is equating starscream's maneuverability, weapons, piloting skill, and durability to those F22 raptors that caught up with, and fired, and hit tony.

I always wondered. If IM being hit by what i assume heat seeking missiles. Why doesn't he just cut his boosters for say 20 seconds as the missile flies by then start it again.

Again he IM can stop in place where no transfomer or jet going at those speeds can. (well there is momentum and inertia and all that jazz but you know what i mean) Like i already said before Stop, let the enemy fly past and shoot them in the butt. The butt means directly in the engine thrusters where there should be no significant protection.

I think teh weapons that IM has will be enough especially if IM can get on the belly of a jet. So i assume taht he can get on th ebelly of Starscream. He had plenty of time to charge up any of his weapons (chest canon comes to mind) to blast away at the plane at point blank range.

Starscream for the way to easy win...i.m.o

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I always wondered. If IM being hit by what i assume heat seeking missiles. Why doesn't he just cut his boosters for say 20 seconds as the missile flies by then start it again.

Again he IM can stop in place where no transfomer or jet going at those speeds can. (well there is momentum and inertia and all that jazz but you know what i mean) Like i already said before Stop, let the enemy fly past and shoot them in the butt. The butt means directly in the engine thrusters where there should be no significant protection.

...starscream flew at full speed straight towards the hoover dam, flew under a bridge, swooped up, transformed in mid ascension, grabbed the bridge in mid-transformation, and landed on the bridge....all while slowing his velocity, transforming, and preventing himself from landing on the bridge with such force so as to not break it once he landed. Iron Man broke through his roof, into his living room, down to his basement, and ruined one of his cars, just by slowing down, then dropping 10 feet or so. Now I'll give you conventional jets, Iron Man can stop in place at those speeds, and conventional jets won't be able to replicate....but again you make the same error everyone else in the thread is, just because starscream looks like an F22....he does NOT fly like one, have weaponry like one, or have the same durability. He's far superior in every regard.

Starscream is a cybertronian strike jet....like Megatron in the movie was. When the TFs land on earth, they scan earth vehicles so they can take its form, not its function. Now, being a cybertronian strike jet appearing to be an F22...how would you know that it can't stop at full velocities? It's an alien craft...why are you equating alien craft to conventional jets? You can't.

I think teh weapons that IM has will be enough especially if IM can get on the belly of a jet. So i assume taht he can get on th ebelly of Starscream. He had plenty of time to charge up any of his weapons (chest canon comes to mind) to blast away at the plane at point blank range.

What is iron man gonna do when Starscream flies into orbit...then comes back in and strafes a bewildered tony?

More on maneuverability....recall that when Tony is taking the suit for a ride, he blunders down the street in Santa Monica (I think) wildly and nearly loses control several times.....contrast with Starscream being the first decepticon to arrive in the city where the autobots and military are, diving through the streets...which prompts the military on the ground to recognize that Starscream is not one of their pilots by any means.

Think about it....something as large as an F22 strike plane flying through city streets at high velocities......impossible for any professional pilot, let alone an extreme amateur like Tony Stark, even if only wearing a suit, as he failed to exhibit any kind of precision when flying through the streets.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
More on maneuverability....recall that when Tony is taking the suit for a ride, he blunders down the street in Santa Monica (I think) wildly and nearly loses control several times.....contrast with Starscream being the first decepticon to arrive in the city where the autobots and military are, diving through the streets...which prompts the military on the ground to recognize that Starscream is not one of their pilots by any means.

Think about it....something as large as an F22 strike plane flying through city streets at high velocities......impossible for any professional pilot, let alone an extreme amateur like Tony Stark, even if only wearing a suit, as he failed to exhibit any kind of precision when flying through the streets.

And for it being impossible, he sure was doing it, albeit very haphazardly and out of control.