EVANGEL94's Final Slugfest Tournament:~Final Championship Match~Darthgoober vs Typhus · Battlezone

Typhus Mandalorian Merc

Darthgoober, you have yet to actually address the issue of the mind of your amalgam. You keep avoiding the issue. I’ve brought up repeatedly that you traded Silver Surfer’s mind for a machine mind. This very machine mind that been defeated at least three to four separate occasions by weaker opponents (regardless of whatever template he had) because he lacks imagination, thought, and the ability create new attacks. I could keep posting more and more scans of Super Adaptoid getting defeated by weaker teams, but I’m not. I’ve made my point clear already.

ALL these scans of silver surfer you keep posting don’t necessary apply to this battle because it’s the SILVER SURFER (soul, body, and MIND) who is the one who is performing all those feats. You’re guaranteed to use full use of your powers, but that doesn’t mean that the Super Adaptoid will use those powers in the same way that the SILVER SURFER (mind, body, and soul) would. You don’t seem to see this as a problem for your amalgam. But your forgetting a couple things.

According to the rules:

#2 Characters will act in-character.

Silver Surfer will act like Silver Surfer.
A Machine will act like a machine.
All this talk of creating some sort of giant energy explosion at the beginning of the match is ludicrous. Why in the world would a Machine Mind do such a thing? He’s more likely to engage this opponents one on one and absorb all their powers and defeat them. Not waste all your energy in a dubious bomb explosion. It’s not logical to waste all your energy on opponents you have no knowledge of, especially when your outnumbered. You don’t have Silver Surfer’s memories, just his powers, and not to mention you didn’t buy.

According to the rules:

5 - Knowledge of the Opposition, Lv. 3: Extensive knowledge of all opponents on opposing team including strengths and weaknesses

You have NO knowledge of my time during prep time. You can’t spy on my team earlier, because you didn’t buy 2 things.

1.

5 - Spying during prep: This can only be done if your team has a means to detect others from a distance through magic, psi, etc.

AND

The rules CLEARLY state.

2.

#7 The default is no prep whatsoever and no knowledge of who you are fighting. You must expend points to obtain prep and/or knowledge. Superspeed does not enhance prep time in any way. On the other hand, assume instant familiarity with all teammates. Any damage incurred during prep will carry on to the battlefield.

Even if you could spy on my team during prep with one of your abilities, the rules will not allow you to do so.

Mr. Slippyfist Dead

Originally posted by Starscream M
aren't we supposed to explain why we vote one way or the other? I thought that was what Evangel wanted.
I find it more helpful for Goober to attempt to sway my vote if I lay out the reasons why i voted for Typhus rather than if I just posted that Typhus outdebated Goober.

You said earlier that you didn't even read the whole thread.

And when the 'outdebating' actually has to do with everything? If he out debated him, it's pretty self explanatory that the person got beat. And when the judge biasly chooses the other person based on the team... well, that's not good judging at all.

And besides, why don't you actually read the thread? I mean, you obviously can't be working too hard on those finals.

Typhus Mandalorian Merc

Originally posted by darthgoober
You seem to be mistaken. Super Adaptoid CAN "stack" attributes, he just avoids it because of his limit on using templates(which the Silver Adaptoid lacks)...
SA "stacks" the mental abilities of Dr. Druid and Mentallo...
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/2825/avengersv128820zu0.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4319/avengersv128822ao3.jpg
SA "stacks" the strength of Thor and Hercules to overpower Herc...
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7803/avengers04516ea4.jpg
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2064/avengers04517wv9.jpg
So when I adapt the powers of Terrax and the rest, I'll have the Power Cosmic of the Silver Surfer with the Power Cosmic of Terrax added to it.

According to the rules your not allowed to stack strength or any other attribute for that matter. You get whomever is the strongest. In your case you would have to switchout a character's power before using the same power

Rule #6: Amalgam powers are not cumulative, i.e., merging Wonder Man and Wonder Woman does not give you CL 200 strength; you are simply whoever is the strongest in their respective power categories.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Starscream M
I appreciate your assessment
but it seems the picture you're painting has Surfer kinda doing all the aggression and the other team is simply reacting
whereas I find it more likely that at the second the match starts, both sides are going at each other
you have 4 heralds against one powered up herald
Surfer as you say would try to take out terrax at the start...and I would agree a few seconds would be all that is needed, assuming he was facing terrax alone. but here, he has 3 other heralds unleashing blasts and attacks at him at the get go, so I don't think taking out terrax would be as simple as you believe.
and similarly, the forcefield is effective, and in your scans protected him against powerful attacks...but the combined attacks of several heralds seems to me to leave him no breathing room to really take advantage of it as much as a one on one battle affords
I just find the numbers a bit too much to overcome...facing 4 heralds is not the same as facing 4 heralds one at a time in a row, its facing all 4 at once.

Reacting is all the other team CAN do. In the opening second of the match they're going to be assaulted by a spatial energy wave so any plans they have are going to have to be put on hold unless they want to end up plastered against the indestructible dome. While they're in the process of dealing with that wave(and there's been nothing offered up to suggest that they could react to it in time or at all) I'll be plowing into Terrax at Surfer's top speed and slamming him into the dome before pinning him with my board.

Terrax's vulnerability to Surfer's speed...
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7915/ff26013zt6.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5350/newwarriors01712rs1.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2359/newwarriors01713uv2.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3507/newwarriors01716ep3.jpg

Surfer using his board to pin down Durok(who's stronger than Thor)
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4742/thor19317sy8.jpg

After he’s pinned helpless it’s just a matter of touching him(to instantly adapt his powers) and then decapitating him with either Cap’s shield or the Sword of light. The entire encounter will take a total of 2 or three seconds MAX.

And given the effects of Cap’s shield on energy beings, Stardust isn’t going to fair much longer(unless there’s some proof that shows him resisting that kind of attack(and I’m a Stardust fan, so I know for a fact that there’s not).

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Typhus
According to the rules your not allowed to stack strength or any other attribute for that matter. You get whomever is the strongest. In your case you would have to switchout a character's power before using the same power
[/B]

You're not allowed to stack AMALGAMATED attributes. So I was mistaken in saying that Terrax's Power Cosmic would be added to Surfer's because that's stacking through amalgamation. But in regards to doing something like stacking the strength of Herc and Lex, that IS allowed because the stacking only comes from one component of the amalgam. And when I start adapting the powers of your team, THOSE will be stacked as well(meaning that within a matter of minutes I'll be able to use either the combined Power Cosmic of Terrax, Stardust, Red Shift, and Morg OR the Power Cosmic of the Silver Surfer.

The funny thing is that I actually managed to keep that in mind until I answered PG's question. That's why I've been saying things like he has either the durability of the Surfer of the combined durability of Herc and Lex.

Starscream M Senior Member

Originally posted by darthgoober

Terrax's vulnerability to Surfer's speed...
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7915/ff26013zt6.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5350/newwarriors01712rs1.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2359/newwarriors01713uv2.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3507/newwarriors01716ep3.jpg

the first scan doesn't work

I think this is a powerful argument, that Surfer's speed would negate the numbers factor of the other team, so does Surfer enjoy a similar speed advantage against the other three heralds? (sorry if you've already shown this previously)

Typhus Mandalorian Merc

So far, every scan you’ve posted has been of Surfer (or Doom in an odd change of pace). My scans are either of my team, or of Adaptoid being bested. You’re not using Surfer, you’re using Adaptoid. Surfer’s feats are irrelevant because he uses his powers in creative ways and has mastered their use through trial and error. Adaptoid is a machine.

As for your strategy, it seems you’re trying to wield SA as your avatar for attacks you’ve come up with from multiple sources, not presenting how SA would tackle this fight. It’s out of character and you’ve shown no scans to back up that ‘this is how Adaptoid would fight’. Does Adaptoid have a history of blitzing? Because the only speed feats you’ve talked about are Surfer’s, and as I’ve said Adaptoid isn’t Surfer.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You're not allowed to stack AMALGAMATED attributes. So I was mistaken in saying that Terrax's Power Cosmic would be added to Surfer's because that's stacking through amalgamation. But in regards to doing something like stacking the strength of Herc and Lex, that IS allowed because the stacking only comes from one component of the amalgam. And when I start adapting the powers of your team, THOSE will be stacked as well(meaning that within a matter of minutes I'll be able to use either the combined Power Cosmic of Terrax, Stardust, Red Shift, and Morg OR the Power Cosmic of the Silver Surfer.
The funny thing is that I actually managed to keep that in mind until I answered PG's question. That's why I've been saying things like he has either the durability of the Surfer of the combined durability of Herc and Lex.

So in that case wouldn’t it be power boosting? Which also requires a purchase to use. I’m sure if basic powers aren’t allowed to stack or boost a character than copied powers aren’t either. In fact, anything you absorb becomes an attribute of YOUR amalgam, effectively making it YOUR power and therefore not allowed to be stacked.

Typhus Mandalorian Merc

Originally posted by Starscream M
the first scan doesn't work
I think this is a powerful argument, that Surfer's speed would negate the numbers factor of the other team, so does Surfer enjoy a similar speed advantage against the other three heralds? (sorry if you've already shown this previously)

Surfer could not overwhelm Morg with speed. In fact, Morg blitzes as well. Here he rushed and demolished Firelord and Airwalker, they didn't couldn't even counterattack:

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Typhus
Darthgoober, you have yet to actually address the issue of the mind of your amalgam. You keep avoiding the issue. I’ve brought up repeatedly that you traded Silver Surfer’s mind for a [b]machine mind. This very machine mind that been defeated at least three to four separate occasions by weaker opponents (regardless of whatever template he had) because he lacks imagination, thought, and the ability create new attacks. I could keep posting more and more scans of Super Adaptoid getting defeated by weaker teams, but I’m not. I’ve made my point clear already. [/B]

The templates he's accessing at the time DO figure into it. Whether or not he was beaten by someone else on a different day when both were less powerful is completely meaningless. Thing is strong enough to hurt someone with Thing level strength/durability just like Cap's able to hurt someone with Cap level strength/durability. But you've shown NOTHING to suggest that it's even POSSIBLE for you to take down someone with the Silver Adaptoid's level of strength, durability, speed, skill, overall power, and equipment.

Originally posted by Typhus
ALL these scans of silver surfer you keep posting don’t necessary apply to this battle because it’s the SILVER SURFER [b](soul, body, and MIND) who is the one who is performing all those feats. You’re guaranteed to use full use of your powers, but that doesn’t mean that the Super Adaptoid will use those powers in the same way that the SILVER SURFER (mind, body, and soul) would. You don’t seem to see this as a problem for your amalgam. But your forgetting a couple things. [/B]

I’m not trying to use them in the same way Surfer uses them, I’m just replicating a couple of UNIMAGINATIVE feats, which I can do because I have full knowledge and use of Surfer’s powers. See what you’re wanting is proof that this particular strategy is the one he’s guaranteed to think of, but that’s not necessary because I’m the one controlling him so I dictate what actions he takes. All that’s necessary is that my actions be “in character” for him and everything I’ve done is, By the same token your team has never worked together the way you’ve described them doing here but as long as they don’t do anything “out of character” for themselves they’re assumed to do whatever you want them to do.

Now that I think about it, which part of my plan do you think requires imagination exactly, because you keep saying that but my plan couldn’t be much more strait forward or unimaginative.

Originally posted by Typhus
According to the rules:

Silver Surfer will act like Silver Surfer.
A Machine will act like a machine.
All this talk of creating some sort of giant energy explosion at the beginning of the match is ludicrous. Why in the world would a Machine Mind do such a thing? He’s more likely to engage this opponents one on one and absorb all their powers and defeat them. Not waste all your energy in a dubious bomb explosion. It’s not logical to waste all your energy on opponents you have no knowledge of, especially when your outnumbered. You don’t have Silver Surfer’s memories, just his powers, and not to mention you didn’t buy.[/B]

It’s not a waste of power because he’ll be replenishing his energy with the Nega Bands, so it makes perfect sense for him to use that much energy. So far in this tournament he’s faced off against a Waverider/Metron amalgam, a team with Thor and the Doctor on it(along with Reed and Lex), and a Zoom/Dr. Strange Amalgam so he knows the level of the competition. The mind of Super Adaptoid doesn’t really like to toy with opponents unless it’s to further a plan, he likes to take opponents out as quickly and efficiently as possible and goes for an opening “cheap shot“ whenever he can…
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1253/avengersv128913eo8.jpg

As for Sup Adaptoid “preferring” to risk defeat just to copy your teams powers, why would he? This is the LAST match of the tourney and when the tourney’s over I get what I most desire, so if I go for a quick win I can ask for the powers of ALL the touney participants if I want or just ask for the Power of a cosmic cube again. Your team’s powers are small potatoes compared to that kind of thing.

Originally posted by Typhus
According to the rules:
You have NO knowledge of my time during prep time. You can’t spy on my team earlier, because you didn’t buy 2 things.
1.
AND
The rules CLEARLY state.
2.
Even if you could spy on my team during prep with one of your abilities, the rules will not allow you to do so. [/B]

What spying did I do on your characters before the match started? I used Cosmic Awareness as soon as the bell rang but for the prep period I was completely oblivious to your team.

Typhus Mandalorian Merc

And just so no-one's underestimating Morg, here's the battle with Surfer I posted earlier:

And since powers don't stack, he's either ^THIS^ durable, or as durable as Lex's power armor.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Starscream M
the first scan doesn't work

Here try this one...
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4742/thor19317sy8.jpg

Originally posted by Starscream M
I think this is a powerful argument, that Surfer's speed would negate the numbers factor of the other team, so does Surfer enjoy a similar speed advantage against the other three heralds? (sorry if you've already shown this previously)

The other heralds on his team have approximately ZERO speed/reaction feats to my knowledge(and I'm one of the resident herald experts), and not a single speed/reflex feat has been posted by Typhus to show his team is able to react to the kind of speed and attacks they're dealing with here.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Typhus
So far, every scan you’ve posted has been of Surfer (or Doom in an odd change of pace). My scans are either of my team, or of Adaptoid being bested. You’re not using Surfer, you’re using Adaptoid. Surfer’s feats are irrelevant because he uses his powers in creative ways and has mastered their use through trial and error. Adaptoid is a machine.

Show me the creative way I used Surfer's powers.

Creation of a time bomb after being given the idea by going through a battle where a large energy blast was released in my direction in the opening seconds of the match=not creative(a bomb is a very basic and simple villain strategy in fact).

Altering the energy type of the bomb to compensate for it's failure to work in previous rounds=not creative.

Originally posted by Typhus
As for your strategy, it seems you’re trying to wield SA as your avatar for attacks you’ve come up with from multiple sources, not presenting how SA would tackle this fight. It’s out of character and you’ve shown no scans to back up that ‘this is how Adaptoid would fight’. Does Adaptoid have a history of blitzing? Because the only speed feats you’ve talked about are Surfer’s, and as I’ve said Adaptoid isn’t Surfer.

Oh you're looking for proof that Super Adaptoid will do things like bullrush blitzing and using energy blast? Ok here you go...

Bullrushing Quicksilver...
http://img404.imageshack.us/content.php?page=done&l=img404/9374/avengers04518uo8.jpg

Using energy blast from the Nega Bands...
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4773/marveltwoinone07531ta9.jpg

Originally posted by Typhus
So in that case wouldn’t it be power boosting? Which also requires a purchase to use. I’m sure if basic powers aren’t allowed to stack or boost a character than copied powers aren’t either. In fact, anything you absorb becomes an attribute of YOUR amalgam, effectively making it YOUR power and therefore not allowed to be stacked.

Nope power boosting is actively doing something amping something about the character beyond his normal limitations. The Super Adaptoid can stack multiple templates at will no matter what's going on so nothings actively being "boosted" beyond the norm.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Typhus
And just so no-one's underestimating Morg, here's the battle with Surfer I posted earlier:

And since powers don't stack, he's either ^THIS^ durable, or as durable as Lex's power armor.

Again, amalgam abilities don't stack, but my character's stacked strength and durability come directly from the powers of the Super Adaptoid.

darthgoober Senior Member

Now that I think about it, wasn't this match supposed to officially end like 2 1/2 hours ago?

Typhus Mandalorian Merc

It doesn’t really because all of the opponents he’s faced, Super Adaptoid was already significantly more powerful than them, but he was outwitted and defeated. The very fact that your claiming that he copied his oppositions durability and therefore was handicapped just shows HOW LIMITED and dependent Super Adaptoid really is on his opposition’s attributes. If he were smart he wouldn’t have copied the opposition’s durability, and would have recalled Iron Man or someone else’s durability who has higher durability than Captain America or Thing to protect himself. But Super Adaptoid doesn’t think like that. He’s A MACHINE. And limited to whatever his programming is. He lacks imagination and thought.

Super Adaptoid “I was never programmed for such Resistance”

You have full knowledge on how to use Silver Surfer’s powers, but that doesn’t mean your Super Adaptoid will use those same powers in the same way. He’s a pre-programmed machine. He’ll fight like one. Motivation doesn’t mean anything to him. He’ll fight like always. It could be the first match or last, but he lacks the intrinsic human characteristics to push himself to win.You have presented no proof that regarding Super Adaptoid would act any other way than just fly around on Surfer’s Surf board and try to attack/brawl with his opponents. I’ve presented at least 3 to 5 separate occasions in which Super Adaptoid just runs up and attacks his opponents. He never fights in the way you describe. This isn’t how you would want Super Adaptoid to act. This is how he would most likely act.

How do you explain this:

Those very scans above, the very LATEST of Super Adaptoid’s appearance show that he lacks imagination or thought into his attacks. He’ll just perform whatever he’s copied from his opponents.

Originally posted by darthgoober

Bullrushing Quicksilver...
http://img404.imageshack.us/content.php?page=done&l=img404/9374/avengers04518uo8.jpg
Using energy blast from the Nega Bands...
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4773/marveltwoinone07531ta9.jpg

You’ve sealed your own fate! These scans above just show that, rather than doing your complicated bomb plan, he’ll just jump into the fray and attack his opponents. It’s ‘in-character’ for him to do so.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again, amalgam abilities don't stack, but my character's stacked strength and durability come directly from the powers of the Super Adaptoid.

Copied powers become part of Super Adaptoid’s character once you absorb them or have already absorbed them. By proxy effect, it becomes your power and therefore not stackable.

Typhus Mandalorian Merc

Originally posted by darthgoober
Now that I think about it, wasn't this match supposed to officially end like 2 1/2 hours ago?

This match will be open for a minimum of 24 hours. The first 12 hours are reserved for debating and questions from voters. Please refrain from directly debating with the participants. This match will last until the final super voter has cast their judgment, or until I decide to end the match myself.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Typhus

Ah cool I missed that. In that case I'll be back after I stretch my legs and such)I've been sitting at this computer for over 5 hours now).

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

so this thread will over when exactly? i think it started when typhus first posted right?

Evangel94 Premium Member

Originally posted by psycho gundam
so this thread will over when exactly? i think it started when typhus first posted right?

It is over when all 3 supervoters cast their judgement, or until I end the match. Whichever comes first. If the supervoters take too long, then I will set a hard deadline for the match to end.

-Evangel94

Starscream M Senior Member

Originally posted by Evangel94
It is over when all 3 supervoters cast their judgement, or until I end the match. Whichever comes first. If the supervoters take too long, then I will set a hard deadline for the match to end.
-Evangel94

I am the ultra-voter, my vote counts as 9 regular votes.