In the same novel where Anoon is called the best in by the narrator, Yoda's lightsaber skills is called the best( in almost the exact same words) on the council which Anoon was not on. Yoda's quote was narrowed down to the jedi council and Anoon's wasn't.
I see. A Red Shirt above the Grandmaster. Lovely.
Show me proof that this pre Tpm Dooku was on the same level of his AOTC self after having years to train with Sidious.
"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student!"
Since I won't be egostical enough to interpret in what regard Yoda means, I'll take his words at face value and just go with him in saying Dooku was the best student period.
Oh and he beat Mace. A guy with actual feats as opposed to a Red Shirt.
I love how everyone disregards the narrator's quote as hyperbole when they don't agree with it, yet the have no problem when the narrator supports their side.
Please. It might have something to do with the fact your preious "second to none" was a Red Shirt who's only purpose was to die.
Yes, his only feat is losing to Darth Maul.
Ie. he's done nothing but die. He's worthless.
Got news for you Nikkolas, Anoon's lightsaber skills is further backed up by a quote in another book as well
Feats vs. Hyperbole...you decide.
I suggest you read some of the posts that Faunus,Gideon and myself have recently made in regards to Anoon's skills and in regards to Yoda's.
Reminds me of Janus telling people to read the other user's posts on why Ragnos was the strongest.
Anoon's technical skill probably does surpass Yoda.
That's why he lost to Darth Maul....
You also have to keep in mind that Yoda rarely practiced or demonstrated his lightsaber technique.
And yet he was still superior to Dooku who was superior to Maul in every way.
A big part of your argument is based on the ABC argument and you failed to address DS's point on the Vader and Luke duel.
What point? Vader got hit. If he wasn't in that armor, he probably would have lost the fight.
Simple fact really.
As for Maul not being at full strength....okay? Neither was Yoda when he bested a powered up Dooku who is, again, Mau's firm superior in every way.
What has happened to this forum when people think the spike-headed chump is above Yoda because he beat a Red Shirt Jedi?
You don't seem to realize that narration is canon. There's a quote naming Yoda as the most powerful Jedi in history in the RotS novel. Hyperbole? Duh, because I disagree. Same thing for Sidious in the NEC. Hyperbole? Sure, why not?
Canon is not up to you, and clearly you haven't read any of our recent thoughts and clarifications on the matter. So until you do - because we've already gone though every single one of your responses - don't expect a real rebuttal from anyone.
You don't seem to realize that narration is canon. There's a quote naming Yoda as the most powerful Jedi in history in the RotS novel. Hyperbole? Duh, because I disagree. Same thing for Sidious in the NEC. Hyperbole? Sure, why not?
You apparently miss the key distinction between Yoda, Palpatine and Anoon: the first two have actual feats. They've done things besides die.
And I don't need to read your posts. I have seen everything the character has done....which is nothing.
I don't want your replies until you can bring something to the table besides bullshit hyperbole.
So, I steeled my stomach and did as you asked. Reading your posts, I guess this thread summarizes it up best.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=482668&highlight=title%3A%28Anoon%29
I love the rationalization though.
"He's weaker in everything but better technically!"
You see, you yourselves understand how that quote is bullshit. Grasping at straws you came up with that terrible excuse to fallate Darth Maul while simultaneously soothing your guilty conscience for supporting such utter nonsense.
Fact is, Anoon is below Yoda. In...everything. THat's obvious.
That's idiotic. I rationalized the statement in a way that made complete sense, and is backed in full by another canon source (PoD). It doesn't matter whether you agree or disagree with the quote, and if you disagree with my assessment of it without providing something other than "zoOMg hyperbuhlee," the only possible conclusion left is that Anoon would tool Yoda's shit in a lightsaber duel. Since, clearly, you're completely incapable of coming up with a sensible explanation that doesn't completely contradict canon fact, either admit you're wrong or shut up.
So...he himself says he’s matched by Mace. He’s fought Mace and knows his power.
Mace’s own profile says he was only overcame by Dooku and Yoda...so Anoon is matched by Mace who is inferior to TPM Dooku let alone Sith Dooku.
So, yes, he's below Dooku and Yoda at this point and can't even overcome Mace.
Also, Power of the Jedi is a newer source than Shadow Hunter.
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
I see. A Red Shirt above the Grandmaster. Lovely."The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student!"
Since I won't be egostical enough to interpret in what regard Yoda means, I'll take his words at face value and just go with him in saying Dooku was the best student period.
Oh and he beat Mace. A guy with actual feats as opposed to a Red Shirt.
Greatest, period, he didn't specify that Dooku was the greatest in saber skills, which is what we are discussing here with Anoon Bondara.
What point? Vader got hit. If he wasn't in that armor, he probably would have lost the fight.
Simple fact really.
As for Maul not being at full strength....okay? Neither was Yoda when he bested a powered up Dooku who is, again, Mau's firm superior in every way.
What has happened to this forum when people think the spike-headed chump is above Yoda because he beat a Red Shirt Jedi?
Greatest, period, he didn't specify that Dooku was the greatest in saber skills, which is what we are discussing here with Anoon Bondara.
Yes, greatest period. In everything. Not just one category but all of them.
So then Vader is below ESB Luke, in your mind?
A Vader not trying his best, yes.
Tell me something, if Dooku was superior to Maul "in every way" why did Sidious bother to train Maul for 20+ years? Why not just turn Dooku to the dark side? And explain how Yoda wasn't at full strength during his duel with Dooku on Vjun.
A. Because it was Dooku's apprentice, Qui-Gon, dying by the hands of the Sith that fully disillusioned the Count. Leas thtat's what I remember reading.
B. Didn't the dark side planet hampen Yoda's power?
Too bad we have narration on our side, from two sources, and all you have is biased shit. Narration >>>>>>>>>>>>> You.
You use narration. I'll use my brain.
Originally posted by Pyron_KnightSo...he himself says he’s matched by Mace. He’s fought Mace and knows his power.
Do you know how to read? He said he has sparred with Mace and Qui-Gon. That means he fought them. Not that they matched him.,
[QUOTE]Mace’s own profile says he was only overcame by Dooku and Yoda...so Anoon is matched by Mace who is inferior to TPM Dooku let alone Sith Dooku.
So, yes, he's below Dooku and Yoda at this point and can't even overcome Mace.
Hey, you may finally have some decent proof. I'm interested to see what Faunus says about this. But remember, if Anoon is Mace's equal, Maul is above Mace. To say he is below TPM Kenobi is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Yes, greatest period. In everything. Not just one category but all of them.
A Vader not trying his best, yes.
A. Because it was Dooku's apprentice, Qui-Gon, dying by the hands of the Sith that fully disillusioned the Count. Leas thtat's what I remember reading.
B. Didn't the dark side planet hampen Yoda's power?
You use narration. I'll use my brain. [/B]
Do you know how to read? He said he has sparred with Mace and Qui-Gon. That means he fought them. Not that they matched him.,
I can read. That's why I connected the dots...
It says Anoon "tends to disagree" with being "unmatched...having sparred with..Master Mace Windu".
If he wasn't matched by them, why would it cite his sparring with them as causing him to doubt his being unmatchable?
Hey, you may finally have some decent proof. I'm interested to see what Faunus says about this. But remember, is Anoon is Mace's equal, Maul is above Mace. To say he is below TPM Kenobi is ridiculous.
I didn't say he was weaker than TPM Kenobi. Just that if he was leagues and leagues above him like you all try to claim, Kenobi wouldn't have been beating on him like that.
He did not say "Dooku was the best in every single category, period" he just said "Dooku was the best." You can be below somebody in one category but still be above them all around.
But no such thing is implied. He's simply labelled the greatest.
That's ridiculous. He hit his arm, but Vader's armor is part of his powers and he still chopped off Luke's hand 3 seconds later... and after getting knocked on the ground, Maul still knocked Kenobi into the pit about 10-15 seconds later, plus kicked him in the face. Same same.
But it's Vader's armor that saved him. You can't deny that. Luke got a shot in on Vader, fair and square.
A. Right, like Sidious couldn't have just went after Qui-Gon while he was on a mission... kill Kenobi, too, and then turn Dooku. Sidious is a master at manipulation and creating schemes, if he wanted Jinn dead, Jinn would be dead. There had to be a reason for him picking Maul as his apprentice in a galaxy filled with billions of apprentices to choose from.
Do we even know how good Dooku was at the time of Sidious picking Maul and raising him?
Perhaps he didn't show the promise of his later years, I dunno.
B. No, it increased Dooku's power but did not affect Yoda's power.
Fair.
Unfortunately for you, narration is c-canon, and your brain is n-canon. In case you don't know what that means, it means your brain is on a lower level of canon that the narration and therefore should be disregarded.
Hey be my guest to be a joke and think Darth Maul is even close to Yoda in anything.
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student!"Since I won't be egostical enough to interpret in what regard Yoda means, I'll take his words at face value and just go with him in saying Dooku was the best student period.
Oh and he beat Mace. A guy with actual feats as opposed to a Red Shirt.
Please. It might have something to do with the fact your preious "second to none" was a Red Shirt who's only purpose was to die. Yes, his only feat is losing to Darth Maul.
Ie. he's done nothing but die. He's worthless.
Reminds me of Janus telling people to read the other user's posts on why Ragnos was the strongest.
You have to excuse me but this has been addressed in 2 different threads in the last week or two, I'm tired of posting the same thing in different threads, I really don't see why you have to be the exception and force the argument into yet another thread. instead of just posting in one of those.
And yet he was still superior to Dooku who was superior to Maul in every way.
And in regards to your sources, could post the next part of the Anoon bio. I don't have access to it and I'm curious as to what it says, since it is cut off. Furthermore do they go all out in sparring matches is their intent to kill? No, so the outcome of the his spar vs Mace is not given, for all you know they stopped because an urgent matter came up or a class of padawans was coming into the room.
Hmm, I see no mention lightsaber skill or technique there. It says he was the greatest student and most learned in the force. Yet still no reference to lightsaber skill.
"Best of all, Dooku would be!"
So...why do you need specifics? He's the best - plain and simple.
So just because a character has one combat feat that was a lost he most suck. Got news for you Nikkolas Nihilus has one actual combat feat and he got beat by the Exile, you obviously don't here us going around saying yea he is powerful but he sucks at actual combat since he lost his only known real duel.
I don't care if they're combat feats. Just...feats at all.
And I'll post the next bit of Anoon's bio in a bit. I gotta do something first.
Originally posted by Luminatus
"Best of all, Dooku would be!"So...why do you need specifics? He's the best - plain and simple.
Because that can mean best overall not at specific skill but the best the most well rounded stundent. Furthermore while the statement is good to support an argument you can't base an argument of this one point because while Yoda is a fairly credible source he still is an in universe character and his word isn't canon.
I don't care if they're combat feats. Just...feats at all.
Well they have to be somewhat related for individual combat unless you would use Luke blowing up the death star with the aid of the force as a point in a lightsaber duel.
To add to what some people have been arguing about Anoon having better technical skill than Yoda that also doesn't necessarily mean that Yoda would lose a lightsaber duel due to his skill in the force to aid him. Look at Dooku, it is by no means a stretch of the imagination to say he is more technically sound than Anakin but he lost in a lightsaber duel. Furthermore the degree to which Anoon was better than Yoda was never given and I'd wager that there was not to much to much of a difference between their lightsaber skills prior to TPM.
Faunus's rationalization is spot-on, Pyron. The omniscient narrator made specific reference that Bondara's technical prowess is peerless in the whole of the Jedi Order. Your citations are ultimately that Bondara himself disagrees -- Bondara is not omniscient. Furthermore, Mace Windu has said that Depa Billaba's swordplay exceeds his own and that Obi-Wan Kenobi is a greater swordsman than himself. Yet Windu would tool Kenobi in a duel. Jedi have a tendancy to be humble when in regards to their own abilities. The omniscient narrator holds no such bias.
