Who can beat the Spectre?

Started by Erik-Lensherr25 pages

Originally posted by Juntai
Only if you completely ignore the context of the story itself, which only serves to show your ignorance of the entire subject matter of Zero Hour and indeed, DC's history.

Zero Hour wasn't about a single universe, in fact, right from the onset, it's clear we're dealing with an entire multiverse. Waverider is talking about how he had to wipe out an entire reality to defeat Monarch. Rip calls the universe a timeline from his perception as a Linear Man. Timelines = Realities = Earths = Universes. Keep that in mind, it's important.

Now, lets hear Rip Hunter's explanation of alternate timelines.
http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=29141982td0.jpg
The hypertime reference isn't what important here, although it obviously existed from Rips POV, it hadn't fully been utilized yet... but the fact that splintered timelines and Earths indeed, are a multiverse. DC recognizes this on panel.[And not only them mind you.]

Throughout the story, and the tie ins, it's clear that seperate realities, as well as the prime reality are all being wiped out. This is how several alternate characters end up in the story. Hence, Batgirl, etc.

So we've verified that there is multiple timelines and Earths or characters from them being shown on panel, meaning Hal erased a multiverse by tightening the loop in time.

Zero Hour was in essence, to once again try to rid DC of having many realities and timelines, a sequel to COIE, since these alternate universe and timeline stories were already popping back into continuity within a decade after the COIE. So they went about trying to simplify again. [And ultimately looking back, failing horribly again, but with a lot of great stories! ]

Now before we consider what Hal was building....first lets verify what Hal called that he destroyed on panel!?

In his famous introduction into the story, he knocks out Superman and standing over the fallen body of Earth's Champion he proclaims;

"I've taken the name PARALLAX. I've seen the UNIVERSE from many different directions. And I know how to fix it, even if it means DESTROYING it!"

Wait a minute, Hal wiped out a multiverse as we'e already verified and called it a Universe!? Incredible.

Now, let's consider that DC near always calls it's alternate universes-- Earths, hence, Crisis on Multiple Earths, Crisis on Infinite Earths, Earth 1, Earth 2, [instead of Universe] and again reconsider what Hal was building.

Hal says "And why stop there? Why not TWO Earths, one for us, and one for the JSA, where they can can stay eternally young?"

And tells Batgirl and Centurian he'll rebuild their Earths too!

Put into perspective and the context of the story, thinking Hal is speaking merely of filling up a single universe/Earth/Timeline with tons of replicas of planet Earth is just plain ignorant.

Clearly with the reference to the JSA, and his creation of multiple Earths, and all he's said or claimed his 'Universe' will be, it's quite clear his intention is to try to bring back the "Golden Age" and the Infinite Earths, where everything was perfect and basically no one ever really aged or died.

And for the last piece, we have to consider what Hal said on the very first page as reality is finally fully wiped, and all color gone, two pages after knocking out Superman. And he's talking about how the universe needs a clean slate, he plain and clearly says...

"Who knows? Maybe one universe, one world, won't be enough."

This suggests, that again, when he's talking about making more EARTHS, he is indeed speaking of universes.

And also clearly points out the fact, that he indeed does have the ability to more than a single universe, and a DIRECT reference to the fact on panel.

So after not even completing a single universe, but knowing Hallax had the power to create MORE, ON PANEL, BY HIS OWN STATEMENTS, how much power did he have when he battled Spectre?

Answer? Most of it, while you claimed he was all but gone of energy already. Completely not true.

As for Spectre being defeated? I've already covered that. Show me the panel where Spectre is depicted down and out or defeated, because I can show you the ones where he isn't, but indeed still has vast energies left. Showing him getting blasted and going ARGH, then seeing him still up and running isn't cutting it. Basically, show the goods, or drop it.

As for Ganthet vs Spectre? Bring it.

Superb 👆

Thanks guys.

<<<INSERT SUCK-UP COMMENT HERE>>>

😖hifty:

Originally posted by -K-M-
<<<INSERT SUCK-UP COMMENT HERE>>>

😖hifty:

lol, I don't think it's like that.

Aunt May w/ THOTU
GEB
PR Beyonder
Mr. Myxptlk
Michael
Lucifer
Phantom Stranger (tough call since he's a deux ex machina)

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Aunt May w/ THOTU
GEB
PR Beyonder
Mr. Myxptlk
Michael
Lucifer
Phantom Stranger (tough call since he's a deux ex machina)

PR Beyonder?
did he ever beat The LT or any omniversal being like that on panel?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ig defeated abstracts that are multiversal in nature. Show me anyone depowering the ig user without the ig user allowing it. 😛

Beyonder scared the Lt who is more powerful than Spectre.

Scathan has demonstrated power defeating someone who had the Lt's powers easily.

Again when you say someone easily depowers the ig back it up with an example otherwise you are making stuff up again.

spectre without a host and lt are equal dumbass.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer

Aunt May w/ THOTU = GEB = PR Beyonder
Mr. Myxptlk
Michael
Lucifer
Phantom Strange


Fixed.
Originally posted by fangirl101

PR Beyonder?
did he ever beat The LT or any omniversal being like that on panel?


Nah, he did one better,
he made the LT tremble in fear:

"The Mighty of the Multiverse (the LT included) TREMBLE"

................................................................................

As for who he beat,
Beyonder defeated Molecule Man who was more powerful than the LT.

As ol' Nvr would say, "next" ... 😂

Originally posted by carnage52

spectre without a host and lt are equal dumbass.


There's no evidence of any kind to suggest that.

So you shouldn't be calling members "dumbass"
if you yourself don't know what you're talking about.

Debate with respect friend. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Fixed.

Nah, he did one better,
he made the LT tremble in fear:

"The Mighty of the Multiverse (the LT included) TREMBLE"

................................................................................

As for who he beat,
Beyonder defeated Molecule Man who was more powerful than the LT.

As ol' Nvr would say, "next" ... 😂

There's no evidence of any kind to suggest that.

So you shouldn't be calling members "dumbass"
if you yourself don't know what you're talking about.

Debate with respect friend. 🙂

Nice post 👆

PR Beyonder would own the Spectre.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
PR Beyonder would own the Spectre.

pr beyonder isn't even real, no reason to debate someone who isn't real is there? 😄

Originally posted by carnage52
spectre without a host and lt are equal dumbass.
The Spectre who was dominated by Captain Marvel with his amp? No way. The Lt is way above him but feel free to prove that the Spectre is an equal to the Lt.

Originally posted by kevdude
pr beyonder isn't even real, no reason to debate someone who isn't real is there? 😄
Preretcon Beyonder was so powerful he had to be retconned and if we do say preretcon beyonder it does count for debating purposes and he is way over the Spectre imo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Preretcon Beyonder was so powerful he had to be retconned and if we do say preretcon beyonder it does count for debating purposes and he is way over the Spectre imo.

So what your saying is you like to waste time? 👆 go for it

Originally posted by kevdude
So what your saying is you like to waste time? 👆 go for it
You said he isnt real so why debate him. For debating purposes you can do whatever you want is my point.

Originally posted by kevdude
pr beyonder isn't even real, no reason to debate someone who isn't real is there? 😄

👆

That's why I haven't even bothered to respond to the arguments brought in his favor 🙂

guys, keep the personal stuff out of the thread, thx...

It's quite simple really.

If anyone doesn't want to participate in pre-retcon character involved threads,

then don't, and mind your business.

End of story. 🙂

I'm sure anyone can create an imaginary character that is all powerful but full of so many holes in thier "omnipotence" then we could all just say my character beats yours. Based upon the retcon and the LACK of feats that place the beyonder at an omnipotent level, against characters who were at the time, barely multiversal, and didn't even know it themselves, the pre retconned beyonder is a fallacy and fanboys wet dream not worth debating.

What I find funny is people using feats that happened after the retcon to make the Beyonder more powerfull.

If anything, in order to debate a retconned character you've got to at least use feats that have happened only before the retcon.