Captain America vs. Gambit

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Breaking off the arms of 8-10 foot tall robots.

I'm not sure what you think the height of the robots has to do with its durability.

The rest of the stuff (except for the Iron Man feat, which needs context), is NOT what I'd expect Peter to do. It would be too easy for Peter to be noteworthy. I expect Peter to impress me by military pressing subway cars and using jeeps as projectile weapons. Cap is certainly stronger than peak human, but he isn't close to that.

And Daredevil is not faster by feats. Not in the least.

I once saw Cap react to the sound of bullets fired at his back and turn around with a sheild in time to block it. That was a high reflex feat for him. I also saw him narrowly dodge a single bullet after it was fired from a pistol at close range. That was a good feat for him (even Bucky was surprised). I've seen him claim that he sees faster, which supports these feats and his place as a low-end bullet-timer.

DD on the other hand, regularly swats bullets back at multiple shooters while somersaulting. It isn't even impressive anymore, because it's par for his course. DD notices a sniper round that's already so close you can see its large reflection in the glasses of its intended target, and still has time to move the guy out of the way. Again, just another day at the Matt Murdock-ridiculous-reflex office. We can debate what we mean by "speed" perhaps, but Daredevil owns Cap on reflexes.

daredevil doesnt have by any means better reflex feats than captain america, both of them got same feats of blocking, avoiding, deflecting atc atc multiple machine gun fire, both of them like any other street for that matter got same feats of making bullets look cheap and dance around all day, cap however as far as movement speed demonstrated better feats than daredevil and thats nothing special since he suppose to have super human speed to some degree just like strength durability and more.

you probably got confuced between daredevil doing all his fency acrobatic tricks and real reflexes, i see that problem with many posters they think character A is faster and has better reflex than character B because character A does more acrobatic flips which is laughable, as far as reflex reaction time daredevil doesnt have anything on top of cap.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff

I once saw Cap react to the sound of bullets fired at his back and turn around with a sheild in time to block it. That was a high reflex feat for him. I also saw him narrowly dodge a single bullet after it was fired from a pistol at close range. That was a good feat for him (even Bucky was surprised). I've seen him claim that he sees faster,

I've seen the shield one, and agree it's a good feat. The pistol one, I have not seen. Do you have a scan of it, or know the issue?

Is Cap moving after the gun is fired explicit, or does it show the gunman firing in one panel, and Cap moving in the next, so you don't really know whether Cap moved before or after the shot? (It would still be impressive considering it's a close range shot, but the difference is critical.)

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
I'm not sure what you think the height of the robots has to do with its durability.

Just you know, something called reality.

Since having MORE of a material, (e.g. bigger), makes it tougher to stresses.

The rest of the stuff (except for the Iron Man feat, which needs context), is NOT what I'd expect Peter to do. It would be too easy for Peter to be noteworthy. I expect Peter to impress me by military pressing subway cars and using jeeps as projectile weapons. Cap is certainly stronger than peak human, but he isn't close to that.

Those would be average Spiderman feats. Which are still a shit ton better than peak human feats.

I once saw Cap react to the sound of bullets fired at his back and turn around with a sheild in time to block it. That was a high reflex feat for him. I also saw him narrowly dodge a single bullet after it was fired from a pistol at close range. That was a good feat for him (even Bucky was surprised). I've seen him claim that he sees faster, which supports these feats and his place as a low-end bullet-timer.

DD on the other hand, regularly swats bullets back at multiple shooters while somersaulting. It isn't even impressive anymore, because it's par for his course. DD notices a sniper round that's so close you can see its large reflection in the glasses of its intended target, and still has time to move the guy out of the way. Again, just another day at the Matt Murdock-ridiculous-reflex office. We can debate what we mean by "speed" perhaps, but Daredevil owns Cap on reflexes. [/B]

I am talking about reflexes. And bullet timing is absolutely nothing special or high end for Cap. He's been doing it for decades. Hell, he literally 'sees faster' on panel, as part of the reason he can bullet time so easily. Outrunning bullets to the targets? Cool. Something Cap has done plenty of times on his own, but cool.

Originally posted by cdtm
I've seen the shield one, and agree it's a good feat. The pistol one, I have not seen. Do you have a scan of it, or know the issue?

Is Cap moving after the gun is fired explicit, or does it show the gunman firing in one panel, and Cap moving in the next, so you don't really know whether Cap moved before or after the shot? (It would still be impressive considering it's a close range shot, but the difference is critical.)

there is on panel feat of cap moving after the bullet is shot, there is also a feat of cap being able to race a bullet after it was fired and save the person, when asked by some shield agent how can he do that he stated that he can see faster than the bullet and of course his reaction and movememnt speed doesnt fall behind.

Originally posted by cdtm
In sprinting maybe, but disagree on this point, in terms of combat oriented feats.

I'd put Daredevil, Elektra, and Cassandra Cain above him in reflex and combat oriented speed feats. Danny Rand and Spidey too.

Exactly. Very few people near Cap's level have better reflex feats than him, but they're out there. I'd add to your list Typhoid Mary and , if memory serves, Gambit.

ok i was draged into this enough, got to spend my time now with revamping the respect thread, when i am done revamping it you will see all his feats.

Originally posted by red sabre
daredevil doesnt have by any means better reflex feats than captain america, both of them got same feats of blocking, avoiding, deflecting atc atc multiple machine gun fire,

They do not. Every baseball player's batting average would go through the roof if all they had to do was stand in front of the ball with a shield. DD bats bullets away with little batons.

you probably got confuced between daredevil doing all his fency acrobatic tricks and real reflexes

Lots of guys do acrobatics. Virtually none have Daredevil's reflex feats. Nightwing, for example, can flip around as well as anybody and carries two sticks, but he isn't watching a sniper round in mid air from a foot away or batting bullets away like a slow pitch, is he?

The fact that you still don't get the basic difference between common aim-dodging and uncommon bullet-timing amazes me.

Originally posted by cdtm
I've seen the shield one, and agree it's a good feat. The pistol one, I have not seen. Do you have a scan of it, or know the issue?

It's pretty clear-cut. Cap is shown to be standing still at the exact moment the gun is fired. He has dodged it by the next panel. Cap is a quick dude.

This is what bullet time looks like.

It's moving faster than the bullet itself, instead of the gunmans ability to track its target.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
It's pretty clear-cut. Cap is shown to be standing still at the exact moment the gun is fired. He has dodged it by the next panel. Cap is a quick dude.

Nice one!

Yeah, Caps bullet time now.

I guess this means Batman auto loses on CBR now. 🙁

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Just you know, something called reality.

lol. You're evoking reality in the context of comic book death-bots?

Since having MORE of a material, (e.g. bigger), makes it tougher to stresses.

It should be obvious that the important thing here in the material itself, not the amount of it. Or else, you might assume that a Sentinel, being very large and made of lots of material, is more durable than little ol' Ultron.

Thus, I want reason to believe Cap ripping the robot's arms off is particularly impressive beyond "it was slightly taller than a human!"

Those would be average Spiderman feats. Which are still a shit ton better than peak human feats.

Calling those Cap feats "average Spider-man feats" is like calling opening an apartment door an "average feat" for me. Yes, I do it all the time. Yes, so could a 6-year old girl. Does that mean little Sara and I are comparable because she can replicate my common feat? Of course not. Its not a rational point of comparison.

By the same logic, Cap doing some things that Peter takes for granted does not put him even in the same ballpark. Make this argument again when Cap starts throwing cars.

I am talking about reflexes. And bullet timing is absolutely nothing special or high end for Cap.

Sure it is. He's racked up, what, three or four legitimate bullet-timing feats in his entire published career? Aside from one outlier, the most impressive I know of it reacting to the sound of bullets fired behind him. No disrespect: that's good. But again, its the sort of thing Daredevil takes for granted. Cap simply doesn't have DD's high-end bullet-timing feats.And DD has so. freaking. many.

But hey, if you have feats I haven't seen, here's your opportunity to share. I'm willing to be proven wrong.

Anyway, the matter raised is if Cap is closer to SPider-man than to Daredevil. I put to you this thought experiment:

Imagine that for some plot-related reason, the three superheroes decide to dress in each other's costumes to confuse their respective rogues. Imagine that their disguses are so good, you can see no difference even in their physiques.

What do you think will be more convincing, Matt Murdock fighting as Captain America, or Steve Rodgers fighting as Spider-man?

Because I'd bet Matt could pass as Cap for quite a while before many villains noticed, but anyone who has ever fought Peter Parker will notice right away that that the current Spider-man is suddenly a lot slower, weaker than they remember.

Yes, if the lack of one liners wasn't clue enough. 😛

lol word.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
since when is Cap immortal? 😕

In the hail hydra series arch it was actually shown that Steve was injected with the immortal serum for the explanation that he cannot die....nor age. It happened when they captured him in WW2.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
Sure it is. He's racked up, what, three or four legitimate bullet-timing feats in his entire published career? Aside from one outlier, the most impressive I know of it reacting to the sound of bullets fired behind him. No disrespect: that's good. But again, its the sort of thing Daredevil takes for granted. Cap simply doesn't have DD's high-end bullet-timing feats.And DD has so. freaking. many.

Look stop talking crap. Hate it when posters start talking garbage without any evidence. DD doesn't have faster reflexes he just has a radar sense which warns him earlier.

Originally posted by Deadline
Look stop talking crap. Hate it when posters start talking garbage without any evidence. DD doesn't have faster reflexes he just has a radar sense which warns him earlier.

Hate is too strong an emotion for such a trivial matter. Perhaps you are a little high strung.

Why would a radar sense warn him "earlier?" It's not precog. He still has to react to the bullet once its in the air. And in the case of the sniper round I've mentioned several times, it was literally 2ft or less away before Matt noticed it at all.

I don't know how my citing multiple, specific examples representing what I consider to the best demonstrations of both character's reflexes counts as "without any evidence," though it is possible that today is opposite day and no one told me.

Originally posted by Deadline
he just has a radar sense which warns him earlier.

Cap isn't blind, and was looking right at the gunman as he fired. I guess that feat isn't so impressive because his sight warned him earlier. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
They do not. Every baseball player's batting average would go through the roof if all they had to do was stand in front of the ball with a shield. DD bats bullets away with little batons.

Lots of guys do acrobatics. Virtually none have Daredevil's reflex feats. Nightwing, for example, can flip around as well as anybody and carries two sticks, but he isn't watching a sniper round in mid air from a foot away or batting bullets away like a slow pitch, is he?

The fact that you still don't get the basic difference between common aim-dodging and uncommon bullet-timing amazes me.

nop, captain america got feats of avoiding bullets at point blank, he got feats of dodging bullets after they were shot at him, he get a feat of outracing a bullet and deflect it which puts all daredevil bullet feats to shame.

what are daredevil reflex feats that are so great? wolverine cought a rifle bullet with 2 fingers and? are you really trying to claim that daredevil has the best street reflex based on hims being able to deflect a bullet? dude get out of here.

here is captain america actually outrace the bullet and deflect it which is basically not only a better reflex feat but also a far greater speed feat, he actually outrace the bullet and deflect it Lol daredevil is out to shame.